What load bearing equipment do you prefer?

[Eeyore]

I have been away from CAP for years and years. I am now at a SQ that has a lot more focus on the ES portion of the CAP mission; the last SQ I was with (years ago) was primarily CP. I don't even think that we had any ground teams or air crews.

Well, I am now working on my GT certs and was curious about gear... which is better the load bearing vest or suspenders and pistol belt combo.? I have heard that the vests are far more comfortable to wear than the old style suspenders and belt, but do I want to look like 'one of those guys'. I do understand why some say that 'those guys' look like they are about to go into battle, but maybe the reason it goes into battle is because its better...

Whichever I choose I am going to spend some money on it so that I have something that will last a long time. No sense in buying it twice.

What do all of you prefer and wear? Any suggestions on a company to purchase from?

[RogueLeader]

I personally like the pistol belt and the y-suspenders.  You can get most, nearlly 100% hrom the Hockshop. www.thehock.com

[floridacyclist]

I really do like my MOLLE gear as it is much more comfortable than my old web gear, but I have it in black to better match my blue BDUs. Other than that, it's pretty standard - MOLLE gear, with 2 canteens, butt pouch, Camelbak and flashlight all in black plus a first aid pouch that I dyed black since I couldn't find it in that color. Still using the camo ALICE pack, but may trade up to a good lightweight hiking backpack.....in black of course.

I haven't had any bad experiences with the quality of my gear even thoguh it's obviously not GI, but I have seen pistol belts that were limp and floppy and a lot of the metal clips that come on imitation gear doesn't lock; it's only held down by spring pressure and friction.

[Stonewall]

20 years in CAP, 18 of those years being a GTM or GTL.  I've always carried a Large ALICE pack with frame for overnight bivouacs and some assemblance of your standard issue LBE with buttpack.

As for what goes in it, all the stuff required plus extras.

Not once, ever, has anything ever failed me or broken.  Until I started buying "high speed" versions of standard LBE gear, I never spent more than $100 on my gear.  Always encouraged my cadets and fellow seniors to do the same and never had a problem with it.

I'm sure there is equally squared away gear out there, but that's for all the hooah SAR techs, high angle rescue gurus and sign cutters.  Me, I'm sort of just an ES grunt who can navigate in the woods, bandage a guy up and find my way home.

EDIT:  I lied.  Around the mid-90s I started using the CFP-90 ruck sack with internal frame and detachable day pack.  I felt that it was better suited for winter time SAR operations.

In this picture of my "backside" you can see the day pack.  That "mini-buttpack" is from London Bridge Trading Company, a higher-end gear place.  But it was the perfect sized buttpack and had two fast-ex clips instead of the strap buckles.


Here is a picture of three different military set-ups.  The guy in the middle was visiting from Florida Wing and the guy on the left is from another squadron.  That's me on the right.  The "ammo" pouches are from London Bridge Trading Company and are used for a 100rd belt of 7.62 (M-60) from my days as a "pig gunner".

[NIN]

Best load bearing equipment?  A hyper cadet about 5' 6" with broad shoulders.

"Here, troop, carry my gear."

Problem solved.


Oh, wait, was that not what you were asking?

[Sgt. Savage]

Enhanced Tactical LBV, for the 24 hr gear. CPF-90 for the long term stuff.

Humped an ALICE pack for a while. When Uncle Sam gave me a Pack 90, I never looked back; no more back ache.

Jim

[arajca]

Best load bearing equipment?  A hyper cadet about 5' 6" with broad shoulders.

"Here, troop, carry my gear."

Problem solved.


Oh, wait, was that not what you were asking?

I knew someone was going to say this.

[Former_C/LTC]

Don't waste your money on any gear sold at some Army Navy Surplus stores.  Also don't waste your money on what is the lowest bidder that manufactured the Y type suspenders, and old style pistol belt or ALICE pack.  Google blackhawk industries, and get on their website.  I have been deployed to Korea and other places around the world before I cross trained from Security Forces, blackhawk gear is worth every penny I spent over 10 years ago.  There gear is first rate and exceptionally well made.  Don't bother with canteens, get a camelback or hydrastorm water bladder.  The decision to go with a vest or updated H type suspenders and ammo pouches is a personal one, I have both and it depends on the mission as to which gear I will wear.  For anything more than 24 hours get yourself an internal frame rucksack from blackhawk.  I am currently an Air Force Reserve medic and still use many of the blackhawk gear I purchased over the years.  You will be very pleased with their equipment.

  LTC Richard J Levitt, CAP

  MSGT Richard J Levitt, USAFR

[Stonewall]

I won't lie, I use Blackhawk gear, but I've never bought it myself.  Last job bought everything that had "Blackhawk" on the tag and issued it to us.  Good stuff.

To each his own, and for CAP I prefer H-straps.  London Bridge Trading Company is the original with all that high speed gear that Blackhawk pretty much copied and got the lowest bidder, aka VIETNAM to make.  LBT and Eagle Industries are all American made.  Just personal preference.  YMMV.

As for Camelbacks, the first time I used mine in an "extreme cold environment" was at Hawk Mountain in the Winter Time where the tube froze.  Kind of hard to drink through a frozen tube.

As a former Infantryman I can personally attest to carrying a lot of weight over extended distances for very long periods of time.  90% of the time I carried a Large ALICE pack because that's what they issued me.  Later on, in CAP in fact, I made out with the CFP-90 (internal frame ruck).  I ain't gonna lie, its a great piece of kit.  I definately like the separate compartment for the sleeping bag so you don't have to dig around it for other gear.   But back to carrying weight, I live in Florida and I don't plan on carrying a ruck sack in CAP further than from my vehicle to the assembly area where I'll set up my hooch for the night.

If we're talking cadets, I'll let you go ahead and tell cadets to blow off the Army/Navy store where they can get what they need for under $100 and drop $300 for some high speed gear they'll use a few times.

If something ain't broke, there's no need to fix it or replace it.  If you've got a disposable income, then have at it.  I used to make a lot of money, travel the globe, get issued everything I needed to be cool, but I traded it all in to spend time with my family and enjoy life working 80 hours a pay period (I work 5 on 4 off).  I'll stick with my LBE. ;-)

[floridacyclist]

Army/Navy? How about Ebay? $20 for GI webgear, which is perfect for loaning out to new cadets.

[sarmed1]

Over the past 15 years I have used just about every combo of gear options you can think of.  From old vietnam canvas LBE to day pack to survival vest up to the highspeed Blackhawk type vest (as in the picture...I am the guy in the middle BTW)

My current set up is pretty simple and covers about every SAR situation I have probabilty of coming in contact with...including civilian wildland fire and USAR.

small chest harness (the radio carrier type with a pocket) and a large civilian hiker day pack (both in black of course to blend in)
http://www.conterra-inc.com/product_info.php?products_id=18

This set up carries all of the gear for wilderness and urban work.  I stash a 3-day blackhawk pack in a gear bag that holds a few miscelaneous items, that covers the GTL type stuff,  can extend out to about 36 hours or unique rescue situations (poncho liner, machette, extra food, PFD, high angle, etc)

mk

[Major Lord]

I am also a big Blackhawk fan! I have a black vest with the pistol holster sewn on for work, and the green (OD) Medic vest. You can tell the Blackhawk people designed this gear for people who actually use it.

Capt. Lord

[fyrfitrmedic]

 I'm another on the list of those who have found Blackhawk gear quite suitable.

I've only had one issue with a gear failure; Blackhawk more than lived up to their warranty and reputation.

[Eeyore]

Well, Blackhawk was what I was looking at; I think I just may go with that.

Thanks!

[Sgt. Savage]

What's sad id that if our Logistics officers, through the state director, would get DRMO permissions, we wouldn't be buying most of this stuff. My current LBE and CPF-90 came from DRMO Portsmouth, just before it closed. We got like 40 pallets of gear, the vast majority of it in great condition. Now, it's an online system, that the CAPUSAF  liason has to set up for the wing. We haven't seen any DRMO stuff since it closed, a year ago.

[stillamarine]

I am also a big Blackhawk fan! I have a black vest with the pistol holster sewn on for work, and the green (OD) Medic vest. You can tell the Blackhawk people designed this gear for people who actually use it.

Capt. Lord

The founder of Blackhawk is a former SEAL who got tired of his gear always falling apart.  He constantly visits the Teams and other SpecOps types to get in put on what is needed. His gear is always field tested by the guys that use it before it goes on the market.

I've purchased a bunch of gear from him especially when I was in Afghan.

[Major Lord]

My son bought the Blackhawk chest-mount holster for his frequent trips to dirka-dirkastan. I bought him the Blackhawk Deployment bag (with wheels). Now we constantly steal each others gear ! There is enough nylon and velcro between the two of us to build a good sized S&M business!

Capt. Lord

[floridacyclist]

Tango Mike India!!!!!!

[DNall]

While we're on the subject of gear, this is a REALLY funny mistake:
http://www.usmilitarysurplus.com/surpluscatalog/product_info.php?cPath=69_150&products_id=76

[Eeyore]

Are you kidding? When I used to work for the government, our first aid kits looked just like that 

[ELTHunter]

I use the standard Y suspenders with pistol belt, butt pack, ammo pouches and compass pouch.  I throw a camo Camelback over that.  I've been looking at the CFP 90 because you can snap the day pack on or off of it and not have to repack the stuff in the LBE to carry it with the 72 hour gear.  The day pack doesn't look that good to my though.

Anybody know of any other pack system, other than MOLLE gear, that you can assemble to fit the occasion?

Second question, I use a medium ALICE pack with frame.  However, I have a pretty large frame (me physically), and the ALICE pack frame pokes my right in the back.  I took the frame off a while back but I haven't humped it for any distance.  Is it better or worse without the frame.  I usually carry 30 - 35 pounds.

[SARMedTech]

I use the standard Y suspenders with pistol belt, butt pack, ammo pouches and compass pouch.  I throw a camo Camelback over that.  I've been looking at the CFP 90 because you can snap the day pack on or off of it and not have to repack the stuff in the LBE to carry it with the 72 hour gear.  The day pack doesn't look that good to my though.

Anybody know of any other pack system, other than MOLLE gear, that you can assemble to fit the occasion?

Second question, I use a medium ALICE pack with frame.  However, I have a pretty large frame (me physically), and the ALICE pack frame pokes my right in the back.  I took the frame off a while back but I haven't humped it for any distance.  Is it better or worse without the frame.  I usually carry 30 - 35 pounds.

If you check with just about any of the tactical gear shops online you can find ALICE frame pads, largely meant to keep your kidneys from aching. I love ALICEs but am tempted to go with the CamelBak BFM for more comfort.

Also, to those of you who are CFP-90 fans, Blackhawk now makes what they call an Enhanced ALICE Ruck...I think it might give the CFP a run for its money and its about the same price. I also recently found a CFP-90 that claims to be "better than mil-spec" but Im always a little leery of ads like that.

Here is Blackhawks enhanced ALICE:

[Stonewall]

The day pack doesn't look that good to my though.

The day pack is as good as most day packs, but where it lacks in comfort it makes up in convenience.  It's not meant to hold a lot of weight.  But it holds a poncho, poncho liner, 2 MREs and 2 qts of water perfectly.  Room for lots of other odds and ends too.

Second question, I use a medium ALICE pack with frame.  However, I have a pretty large frame (me physically), and the ALICE pack frame pokes my right in the back.  I took the frame off a while back but I haven't humped it for any distance.  Is it better or worse without the frame.  I usually carry 30 - 35 pounds.

You do have a complete frame don't you?  Has a kidney pad that should have a belt on it.  If not, you need the kidney pad. 

Your frame should look like this:


If you're a larger guy you should have a large ALICE (ruck sack) pack.  Medium ones are for the kiddies or can be converted into a team medic bag. 

You can also find an "enhanced belt pad"...  Blackhawk makes one

[Stonewall]

This is what all your ranting and raving has been about?


This thing is enormous.  You plan on E&Eing from deep inside Iraq to Syria with Chris Ryan?

FWIW, here's my theory on a pack for 72hr gear as it relates to CAP.

First, ask yourself the question, do you plan on carrying your 72hr gear more than a mile.  If so, you need something that will equally distribute the weight allowing comfort to carry heavy packs for a decent distance.  My guess is that the absolute longest anyone would carry their 72hr gear in CAP, for whatever reason, is about 2 miles.  I'm sure there's some SAR God type that'll say I'd hike 50 miles to rescue a dog in arctic like conditions, up a mountain with my pack.

Second, how much space do you need?  If you're actually searching, as in performing a line search, would you be carrying your 72hr gear?  I'm sure it's a possibility, but a remote one at that.

How will your 72hr gear most likely be used?  Chances are you'll carry it from the back of your vehicle to a mission base where it will stay until you get back from your sortie.

I carry a CFP-90 or Large ALICE Pack because in the event that I do actually have to carry it it is set up to be carried.  In 20 years of CAP I have yet to carry my 72hr gear greater than 1/2 mile while conducting actual search operations.  How effective of a searcher can someone be with 55 lbs of weight on their back?

I'm just throwing it out there brother.

[Duke Dillio]

I have to go off on the far left tangent.  I'm sure that many of you have heard that there are 49 states and then there is California...

My ground team gear is not black or green or brown.  Everything I get is red or blaze orange or some other bright color.  I wear a Ferno Responder II vest which I got from www.lss.com.  My day pack I got at Wal-mart and then I got a 5200cc pack from www.cabelas.com.  I tend to get all of my expendable gear at a dollar store.  I picked up some other items from www.rangerjoes.com.  I did make some modifications to the Ferno vest, like adding some extra padding under the shoulders, but I like it the gear overall.  I use a hydration bladder which is in my day pack.  I don't think I carry much of anything anymore that was military.

[WoodlandSARman]

For years I used regular web gear and a medium alice pack.

Now I have a medium Camelbak and I can carry everything in it and its comfortable.

Keep in mind I only pack what I REALLY need and have learned to have and not have over the years.

My alice just has my sleeping pad, sleeping bag, extra uniform, and some food.

I can go for 72ish hours on my camelbak if need be. You don't have to have a sleeping pad, you can make one with nature ect ect.

Now for the winter I take my alice and put all the cold weather stuff in it.

My 24/72 combo weighs less then most peoples 24 or as much as ust theur 24 and its very comfortable. Its well built and padded and has vents in the back so your back does not sweat and can breath. I can carry it all day long and be fine, good luck with your alice or most web gear, I can also throw mine on and off very fast and best yet it does not get hung up as much on on tree brances and stuff as my web gear did.

If you want someting else go with Blackhawk for sure.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Since I do BOTH ground team and flying, I wanted a 24-hour pack that included my survival gear that I could also use in the aircraft.  I got a tactical vest from Cheaper-n-Dirt for $50, and was able to put all of my survival gear into the various pockets.  I add to that a Gall's Street Pro police gear bag with the forms and administrative stuff I need as GTL/GBD.  I even have a small whiteboard in there for setting up a status board at a HQ, and I can also use it as a training aid for impromptu classes in the field.

My 72-hour pack is a big Camelbak.  I carried standard military gear since the Vietnam War, and as soon as I saddled up with the Camelbak for an exercise, I realized how good it is.  It is THE MOST COMFORTABLE PACK I HAVE EVER CARRIED!  I do not worry about frozen drinking tubes in Florida.  The only ice here is in the cocktails.

[BillB]

John do I understand you are furnishing the cocktails on Feb 1-3, 2008?

[afgeo4]

I use standard alice clip LBE's with a Y harness for small, 24 hr work (along with a standard camelbak)and a 3 day US Army assault pack (from e-bay) for 48 hr work (includes an H2O bladder). I have a medium pack with frame for 72 hours, but... my favorite load bearing equipment is cadets.

[davedove]

my favorite load bearing equipment is cadets.

I actually prefer to use the van to haul my equipment.  It doesn't gripe as much as the cadets.

[afgeo4]

my favorite load bearing equipment is cadets.

I actually prefer to use the van to haul my equipment.  It doesn't gripe as much as the cadets.

Sure, but gas is $2.95 here, so it's cheaper to buy a can of chef boyardee to keep the cadet's mouth happy (don't know why they like that stuff so much.)

[Duke Dillio]

my favorite load bearing equipment is cadets.

I actually prefer to use the van to haul my equipment.  It doesn't gripe as much as the cadets.

I think it depends on the van you get.  Most of the vehicles we have in CAWG are junk.  It might be nice to haul for a little while, but I wouldn't go out without expecting one of these things to take a dump on you at the worst possible moment.  Murphy's law of ground search and rescue definately applies here.

[JohnKachenmeister]

John do I understand you are furnishing the cocktails on Feb 1-3, 2008?

No habla Ingles.

[Stonewall]

John do I understand you are furnishing the cocktails on Feb 1-3, 2008?

No habla Ingles.

Yep, he's from Florida...

[Duke Dillio]

OOO another drunken senior member alcohol fest???  Woot... oh wait, cadets running about.... Um, it's apple juice... Yeah, that's it, apple juice...  Seniors don't drink alcoholic beverages...   :angel:

[♠SARKID♠]

I'd stay miles away from the pistolbelt/suspender combo.  I delt with that for years and I hated it.  I ended up with a ton of pouches sticking way way out to the point that I couldnt put my arms down right.  I upgraded to a vest and am much much happier!

[JohnKachenmeister]

OOO another drunken senior member alcohol fest???  Woot... oh wait, cadets running about.... Um, it's apple juice... Yeah, that's it, apple juice...  Seniors don't drink alcoholic beverages...   :angel:

Quote from CAPR 52-16:

"Firearms will not be carried or used in any cadet activity, except as indicated elsewhere for training, and to establish an armed guard outside any cocktail lounge open during any CAP activity with orders to shoot on sight any cadet member who approaches the bar while officers are engaged in nautical activities known as 'Splicing the main brace.'"

[Duke Dillio]

I remember during one CAP activity there was an open bar right next to the room where we were having a banquet.  I don't remember any of the senior members becoming soused acting in an unprofessional manner but I had always thought that this was a HUGE no-no.  Would have been funny to see some of the seniors in their "less than professional" mode.  What do they do at the National Boards?  Are there any drinking establishments at any of the facilities?

[WoodlandSARman]

OOO another drunken senior member alcohol fest???  Woot... oh wait, cadets running about.... Um, it's apple juice... Yeah, that's it, apple juice...  Seniors don't drink alcoholic beverages...   :angel:

Quote from CAPR 52-16:

"Firearms will not be carried or used in any cadet activity, except as indicated elsewhere for training, and to establish an armed guard outside any cocktail lounge open during any CAP activity with orders to shoot on sight any cadet member who approaches the bar while officers are engaged in nautical activities known as 'Splicing the main brace.'"

Or to be stationed outside the "forward command post" while Senior member  Air Teams and Senior Member GT's are trying to "out buy" each other

[WoodlandSARman]

I remember during one CAP activity there was an open bar right next to the room where we were having a banquet.  I don't remember any of the senior members becoming soused acting in an unprofessional manner but I had always thought that this was a HUGE no-no.  Would have been funny to see some of the seniors in their "less than professional" mode.  What do they do at the National Boards?  Are there any drinking establishments at any of the facilities?

You need to go to NESA and then go the the forward command post the night before graduation............

[afgeo4]

When I was part of units that met at a local Army NG Armory we used to go to "debrief" at their Officer's Club which is also a historic irish pub. Cadets knew about it and often asked us to buy them a coke since it was only $.50 there. The coke was always "to go". A lot of good counseling and planning was done there. Don't know what I'd have done without it.

Oh... sorry... off topic again... load bearing equipment... Coaster!

[Stonewall]

In Virginia, we met at a huge American Legion post.  Two stories with a banquet hall, game room, small museum and of course, a bar.  The post commander would always give us tokens for free drinks.  While we met upstairs, our files and storage locker was downstairs which required us to walk through the smoke filled bar.

We did our best to keep cadets out of the area, but sometimes it's hard.  Every once in a while you'd find a CAP parent having a drink while Cadet Jr. was in the meeting.  Yep, more than once the seniors ended up having a post meeting discussion at the bar.

As a cadet, it was Burger King.

Okay, I call it, I was the last topic drifter...  back to gear...

[RogueLeader]

I use standard alice clip LBE's with a Y harness for small, 24 hr work (along with a standard camelbak)and a 3 day US Army assault pack (from e-bay) for 48 hr work (includes an H2O bladder). I have a medium pack with frame for 72 hours, but... my favorite load bearing equipment is cadets.

Mine is fairly similar, I have y, with pistol belt, with butt pack, and several pouches for 24 hr, and med alice pack for 72.

[smgilbert101]

Camelbak BFM for the 72-hour pack...It's comfortable even with the rare heavy loads.

Camebak molle vest, assorted pouches (added/subtracted as needed) with extra canteens (its hot in Texas!) and a butt pack.  I can wear all of the above comfortable if I don't load up the butt pack (food, extra socks) ahead of time.

The rug rat got the CFP-90 and the enhanced load bearing vest when I bought new stuff.  She (that's right, I said she) though that the woodland camo had a way-cool factor. <grin>

[Duke Dillio]

Is it me or is there some sort of wierd culture which drives us to wear all OD or black colored gear?  When I teach my cadets about gear, I try to drive the bright colored gear into their head.  I always tell them that blaze orange is their friend.  For the most part, I have seen some improvements in their gear choices but I have found a lot of people from other squadrons wanting to continue with the dark colored gear.  Everything I pick to wear is brightly colored.  Why do people insist on old military gear which is uncomfortable for the most part?  Granted, it is very durable, but I cease to see its function with a SAR team.  I'm sure most of you pilots and aircrew types would agree.

[JC004]

Is it me or is there some sort of wierd culture which drives us to wear all OD or black colored gear?  When I teach my cadets about gear, I try to drive the bright colored gear into their head.  I always tell them that blaze orange is their friend.  For the most part, I have seen some improvements in their gear choices but I have found a lot of people from other squadrons wanting to continue with the dark colored gear.  Everything I pick to wear is brightly colored.  Why do people insist on old military gear which is uncomfortable for the most part?  Granted, it is very durable, but I cease to see its function with a SAR team.  I'm sure most of you pilots and aircrew types would agree.

For Camelbaks, I buy military colors because that's what 39-1 requires.  Also, orange is scary.  Try being in PAWG.  Everything is orange.   

[mikeylikey]

Has anyone said they just use cadets to carry their equipment around?  I do.

[Duke Dillio]

It's been said...  Where's the coolness factor in wearing a cadet though?   

[JC004]

Has anyone said they just use cadets to carry their equipment around?  I do.

I have found cadets to be the best LBE.

[SARMedTech]

I personally go with OD or TacBlack (my personal favorite) because I use the gear for other things, like IMERT, where we dont need to be seen. I have had a blaze orange pack cover made that could be seen by SARSAT, so no worries.

[Stonewall]

Is it me or is there some sort of wierd culture which drives us to wear all OD or black colored gear? 

Yes.

At least between 19987 and about 2005, while active in CAP in FLWG and DCWG, military issue LBE and Ruck Sacks were so easily excessible, they were practically free.  Compare "free" to any high speed gear you have to pay for.

We had kit bags full of ammo cases, straps, canteen pouches, ruck sacks and frames.  When we ran out, we hit the surplus stores.  It was just the thing to have since everyone else had them.  For less than $100, you could find everything you needed, minus the contents, for 24/72hr gear.  Plus, an added bonus I think, it helped with the uniformity (unity) of the squadron or organization.  Especially since we're a paramilitary group.

You can't tell parents, after they already purchased as much as $150 worth of uniforms that they need to buy a specific SAR vest or pack for more than $100 when they can already get some gear for free or half the price.

I'm not against a civilian SAR vest or some high speed pack that's high vis in color, but why buy that when I've had the same gear for 15+ years and it works perfectly fine?

I did pay $30 for a good oranve vest that says "Emergency Services" on it from Galls, as did several other senior members in my last squadron.

[davedove]

I have to go with Stonewall on this one.  The high-vis stuff does tend to be more expensive, and you can often get the military stuff for little or no cost.

I think another factor in the equation is the "cool factor."  Some people just like wearing the military stuff because it is military colors.

[Stonewall]

I think another factor in the equation is the "cool factor."  Some people just like wearing the military stuff because it is military colors.

I won't lie to you, I believe that's a major factor as well.  Especially when I was a cadet; we all wanted to look "military".  Heck, that's why we were in CAP, right?  I'm sure a majority of cadets in CAP these days are here for the military factor.  But even as a cadet, I wouldn't have known where to get any gear other than the military stuff.  I wouldn't have even known that SAR specific gear existed.

For the cadets that I raised, they were all gung-ho military types.  I'm pretty sure if I would have offered a $500 high speed SAR load bearing vest for free, they would have stuck with military gear.  Or, they would have taken it and either sold it on eBay to buy more military gear or at the very least, kept it and spray paint it OD green.

I am very confident there are civilian made SAR LBE/LBVs and SAR packs out there that are much better than military gear.  But until you can go down to Dixie Pawn Shop at Bragg, Full Metal Jacket down in Old Town Alexandria, or T & J's Army Surplus in Jacksonville and outfit a cadet in that high-vis high speed, civilian SAR gear for under $100, I am going to have to stick with recommending cadets go with the military stuff.  Especially since all the MOLLE stuff is being issued to the military.  There are tons of standard issue LBE type gear out there for the taking.

In a military setting, such as the one CAP often emulates, uniformity often equates to professionalism.  In my eyes, that goes for equipment too.  It's hard to accept that a group of teenagers know what they're doing when it comes to SAR, but it may help their chances of being accepted or taken seriously if they show up equipped the same and uniformly look squared away.

It has personally worked for me on more than one occasion.  My team has been singled out to go to a high priority/high level (military base) during a real search mission where an aircrew spotted wreckage on military property because we truly looked 10x more squared away militarily than the other groups.  YMMV.

[smgilbert101]

^^Agreed.  The experience I had with military equipment as a cadet, helped when I joined the military.  I already knew how to rig all of that stuff.

In terms of color, there is actually a color restriction in the regs.  My orange vest doesn't show up very well under my Black Camelbak vest. 

[Duke Dillio]

I guess I should ask this question on here.  Anyone know where I can get a couple of VF-17 panels?  We have an exercise coming up and I want to use them for different things.  Thanks in advance for replies.

[Stonewall]

They're actually VS-17 Signal Panels.

A quick google search and I found: http://www.bestglide.com/VS17_Info.html

And:  http://www.bhigear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=765

And:  http://www.avmarspecprod.com/signal.htm


I bought 10 of them at $5 a piece at a place near Ft. Bragg for CAP.  I always found it rediculous that we are expected to do ground to air signalling using panels, but in my 20 years of CAP, I never saw another squadron that had more than 1 or 2 "signal panels", not necissarily VS-17s.

[Duke Dillio]

They're actually VS-17 Signal Panels.

A quick google search and I found: http://www.bestglide.com/VS17_Info.html

And:  http://www.bhigear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=765

And:  http://www.avmarspecprod.com/signal.htm


I bought 10 of them at $5 a piece at a place near Ft. Bragg for CAP.  I always found it rediculous that we are expected to do ground to air signalling using panels, but in my 20 years of CAP, I never saw another squadron that had more than 1 or 2 "signal panels", not necissarily VS-17s.

This would be why I could never find them.  Thanks for the info.

[Stonewall]

I'm sure CAP has instructions on the use of VS-17s, here's from the Army Field Manual:
http://www.rk19-bielefeld-mitte.de/survival/FM/19.htm

[smgilbert101]

^^^ Isn't it sad that you have to go to a German website to look at US Army field manuals.  The publically available Army library is a painful experience.  If anyone wants the web site, I'll be happy to look it up.

[JC004]

^^^ Isn't it sad that you have to go to a German website to look at US Army field manuals.  The publically available Army library is a painful experience.  If anyone wants the web site, I'll be happy to look it up.

and one of the best ribbon checkers is Polish...

[smgilbert101]

and one of the best ribbon checkers is Polish...

^^  Think about it, thats just asking for a smart remark (it is funny).

[JC004]

and one of the best ribbon checkers is Polish...

^^  Think about it, thats just asking for a smart remark (it is funny).

...

[RogueLeader]

and one of the best ribbon checkers is Polish...

^^  Think about it, thats just asking for a smart remark (it is funny).

unless you know someone Polish, or ARE Polish.  A person can make any kind of jokes about anyone, but they aren't nice and aren't professional.  And on this thread, it's not on topic.

[smgilbert101]

Actually one of my best friends is, but that's not the point, my apologies.  It is not appropriate here. :angel:

[Trouble]

Is it me or is there some sort of wierd culture which drives us to wear all OD or black colored gear?  When I teach my cadets about gear, I try to drive the bright colored gear into their head.  I always tell them that blaze orange is their friend.  For the most part, I have seen some improvements in their gear choices but I have found a lot of people from other squadrons wanting to continue with the dark colored gear.  Everything I pick to wear is brightly colored.  Why do people insist on old military gear which is uncomfortable for the most part?  Granted, it is very durable, but I cease to see its function with a SAR team.  I'm sure most of you pilots and aircrew types would agree.

Found the Coolest thing since  MRE Bread!  Molle Compatible High-Viz Pouches!

http://www.zulunine.com/

Tactical cool meets eye searing Day glo-Orange .........  Now they are not inexpensive but they are cool.

hum.. Molle Vest with some High-Viz pouches and High-Viz CamelBak.

Day-Glo Commando!

Will be placing a call tomorrow.  I'll report back.

[RogueLeader]

Bad link.

[Stonewall]

Think he meant this:  http://www.zulunine.com/backpacks/mollymedic/mollymedic.html

[Trouble]

Sorry. For the bad link. Yea, Stonewall is right. Thats the one.

[afgeo4]

That's just a regular Army 3 day assault pack done in orange. I have the ACU version and it's a great pack except that it's not as water proof as I'd like it to be. Especially since there's a water bladder inside it.

[Stonewall]

...it's a great pack except that it's not as water proof as I'd like it to be. Especially since there's a water bladder inside it.

As far as I'm concenred, ain't nuthin water proof.  In the Army, I'd put my socks in ziploc bags before putting them in my issued waterproof rucksack liner.  Two weeks in the field, half of which it rained, yeah, they'd get wet.

Ziploc everything before putting it in your water proof resistent liner.  That's your best bet.

[davedove]

Is it me or is there some sort of wierd culture which drives us to wear all OD or black colored gear?  When I teach my cadets about gear, I try to drive the bright colored gear into their head.  I always tell them that blaze orange is their friend.  For the most part, I have seen some improvements in their gear choices but I have found a lot of people from other squadrons wanting to continue with the dark colored gear.  Everything I pick to wear is brightly colored.  Why do people insist on old military gear which is uncomfortable for the most part?  Granted, it is very durable, but I cease to see its function with a SAR team.  I'm sure most of you pilots and aircrew types would agree.

Found the Coolest thing since  MRE Bread!  Molle Compatible High-Viz Pouches!

http://www.zulunine.com/

Tactical cool meets eye searing Day glo-Orange .........  Now they are not inexpensive but they are cool.

hum.. Molle Vest with some High-Viz pouches and High-Viz CamelBak.

Day-Glo Commando!

Will be placing a call tomorrow.  I'll report back.

That's a great site.  I use a black modular vest, but I look for orange pouches to attach to it.  These will be a great addition.

[afgeo4]

speaking of... where's a good place to get replacement water bladders that are acu gear compliant ouside of an MCSS?

[Stonewall]

speaking of... where's a good place to get replacement water bladders that are acu gear compliant ouside of an MCSS?

http://www.blackhawk.com/category1.asp?D=D0051&S=S0522&G=G1&C=C0840&N=1&pricestart=&priceend=

[isuhawkeye]

I have found these syetems to be comfertable, and very functional.

Clearly its not large enough for a full 24 hour kit, but with the right system it works well