CAP Officer...nothing more, nothing less and DoD Stickers/Base Access

[Major Carrales]

I am a CAP Officer, nothing more...nothing less.


posted from http://www.afblues.com/index.php?page=today-s-comic

Be more proud of what you are than ashamed of what you are not. 

I have no illusions of being an "Air Force Officer."  I respect and am proud of our auxiliary/Auxiliary status.  We often suffer from identify issues...mostly because we try to measure our efforts with rulers and sliderules of other organizations.  While I think it is every CAP Officer's duty to strive to reach and surpass those benchmarks...ours is a call to be "citizens" in the employ of our nation for our kind of service.

I make it my goal to make our gray shoulder marks relfect a Civil Air Patrol that is service to our Nation's Air Force, Community, State and Nation.

That should not make us "inferior" or prepetuate any cause for shame...be it "self inflicted" or from the Armed Services.  We are what we are...and we should be the best at it.

I hope no USAF officers are "offended" by CAP rank, if so that is miss-placed anxiety.  CAP Officers and their rank are only just that.  Apples and oranges.

Just a reflection on the above cartoon from a non-prior service person who greatly respects all those who serve and have served our Nation in the military. 

[ColonelJack]

Frankly, I hope the Marine whups the tar out of the wise(butt) AF looie.  Sheesh ...

Jack

[SAR-EMT1]

Frankly, I dont get the Marine bit.

[dwb]

Frankly, I dont get the Marine bit.

The USAF guy says the only way to be a real Lt is to be a USAF Lt.  So, the Marine Lt comes along and says it's okay for him to beat up the zoomie because, since he (the Marine) is not a real Lt, the UCMJ wouldn't apply.

It's an okay cartoon, but in reality, I've seen relatively few instances of CAPers putting that kind of attitude out toward our RealMilitary brethren.  Most CAP Officers have Maj Carrales' attitude... that we're humbled to be wearing the same stuff.

Still, it only takes one bad apple, and all that...

[DNall]

Frankly, I dont get the Marine bit.

The USAF guy says the only way to be a real Lt is to be a USAF Lt.  So, the Marine Lt comes along and says it's okay for him to beat up the zoomie because, since he (the Marine) is not a real Lt, the UCMJ wouldn't apply.

That's what I thought too, I was waiting for the CAP member to say that while holding bat. Not necessarily the right message, but funny.

[mikeylikey]

Reminds me of a time when a newly commissioned LT decided to come back to the Squadron to show off his bars.  He stood outside the the door waiting for Cadets to walk by him and not salute.  I stood just inside the door and listened to this "kid" go off on some fairly new cadets "about how they did not salute him".  I passed it off as him being a "jerk".  Later on in the evening I watched the LT yell at a cadet for saluting the CAP Major that was standing next to him and not for saluting him instead and telling this cadet "he is not an officer, I am a real officer".  I walked outside and asked to speak to the LT inside.  He followed me in and I walked him into the classroom we had, shut the door and began a serious chew-out.  I began by saying "LT I am a "real" Captain, and I know your Cadre at "state" university.  His eyes lit up, and his "above all" demeanor went away.

I very rarely bring my work into CAP by making myself known to everyone as a military officer.  I only "come out" when a serious issue warrants it.  I have however, used my rank to stop the harassing of CAP members at the gate by brand new Airman.  Now that the DOD decals are going away, I can see some other issues similar to harassment by gate guards coming up.

[Stonewall]

In my CAP "career" I have never ever had any kind of run in with a military member that mistreated me or my group of cadets or fellow members.

Like Mikey said above, I have had former cadets come back from military training, be it ROTC or even Basic/AIT and try to intimidate or act like they're the real deal.  When ironically, we've got cadets still older than them.

I always think back to how fortunate I was to be in National Capital Wing with a handful of very professional mostly former military/former cadet fellow CAP seniors.  On one occasion, we were involved in a joint wing REDCAP for a missing airplane going from MD to NC.  Mission base was at Manassas Municipal Airport and I believe VAWG was running the show. 

One sortie called for a 2 ground teams to go to Marine Corps Base Quantico because a CAPFlight spotted what looked to be like aircraft wreckage.  Well, we had 2 teams from NATCAP and there was one team standing by from VA.  Other teams were out and about on sorties.  The MC (IC) looked at the 3 teams and said "you guys look more military, we better send your two teams since you may have to deal with a Marine or two".  The reason why he said that to us is because the other team looked like a bunch of, well, wanna-be's.  Longer hair, lacking military bearing, lots of multi-colored field gear, overweight, etc.  They could have been far more capable than us, but by appearance alone, the IC sent us.

The "wreckage" was exactly what they thought it was, aircraft wreckage.  But it was from an A-7 Corsair and was on the range for mortars/artillery.  We ended up dealing with the base commander who wanted to know what was going on on his base, a CW-4 EOD Marine, a handful of senior NCOs and lots of mid-level Marines/NCOs.  It was a weekend night but they all got called in to help out.

We got a CH-46 handed to us, an EOD team, MP K-9s and pretty much every asset we could get.  We sent up 2 CAP observers on the helo to confirm the wreckage.  FIND?  No.  But a good example of how not only looking the part, but acting the part paid off.  Several Marines started talking to the cadets, showing them rifles, going over their ATVs, talking about UXO safety, and just talking to them as if the Marines met a whole bunch of future Marines.  The Marine officers spoke to myself and the other 3 CAP Officers, all of which were Major and Lt Col.  They asked us about the program and we explained it to the best we could.  Every single one of us seniors were well within the height/weight standards as well as military grooming standards.  We were all younger (28 to age 40) senior members with uniforms meeting the standard.  No partially sewn badges/patches, no goofy pluto patch or anything extra.  No boonie hats or berets.  Just your standard issue BDUs.

Long story short, if you look the part, act the part, carry yourself as an officer, regardless of a "true commission", former military or not, you'll be treated with respect from military members.  In this garrison type situation, there was no need for members to pull their LBE/gear out or start running around like mad killers ready to save the world.  We put senior cadets in charge, had them form up, get accountability, and when it came time to relax and mingle, we mingled.

[/no idea why I typed all that, just got into it]

[DNall]

^ It's an excellent story & I'm glad you shared it. I've had very similar experiences in garrison on a guard base, as well as on missions dealing with CG, LE, etc all the way down to the general public. Granted the bar you're talking about is higher at Quantico, but the analogy holds true all the time.

[Smokey]

A side note on the DOD decals and the like.  For several years I had a DOD decal with the blue (officer) base sticker. I am not former military but was issued it as a CAP officer.   Around 2004 the base decided CAP was to be issued a plastic card for veh reg.  That's when the trouble started.  Depending on the gate guard some had no problem, others put me through the third degree.

Last fall I was entering the base (AF) for an airshow. The entrance I was using was for base registered veh only. I was working the airshow and was wearing my green zoom bag. I showed the gate guard my veh reg card and CAP ID....the new photo one.

The gate guard (civilian contract security) began yelling while pointing to my grade insignia that I was impersonating a military officer, it was a federal offense, and on and on. He was about to drag me out of the car when he finally looked again at the ID and saw my grade (Major) on it.  He backed off, snarled and reluctently let me proceed.

I am well within the hgt/wgt/grooming standards for the AF uniform. So it wasn't a case of  lack of military bearing,long hair, etc.

After a conversation with the base commander at the air show (Maj Gen) about the issue (I know him personally) I was issued a AF ID credential. Since then...no problemo.

[DNall]

Well that takes care of you, now for the other 53k members. We've debated that stuff plenty already. I had an officer sticker too for years, and that was nice getting on & off varrious bases away from the issuing one, AF has yet to fix that situation for us now that it's changed to IDs. Nothing much we can do about it. Hopefully they'll put out a one page thing that has to be posted in guard shacks or something like they have at most AAFES facilitites I've been to, but nothing to be done about it on our end.

[SAR-EMT1]

Can CAP types still apply for any stickers the Security Folks have left? Or were they pitched out?

[DNall]

I don't think so, as it wouldn't matter since it's 100% ID now. I'm not sure if it's helpful to have the sticker when you can't back it up with the CAC they expect to see.

[Stonewall]

A side note on the DOD decals and the like.  For several years I had a DOD decal with the blue (officer) base sticker. I am not former military but was issued it as a CAP officer. 

We experienced a similar dilemma in DC where our wing headquarters was located.  Andrews AFB, where AF1 is located, never seemed to be an issue.  But Bolling AFB where they don't even have an aircraft on station other than the F-105 on static display was a bear to work with post 9/11.  Granted they do have some intel assets on base, but I don't think it was the issue.

Our state deputy director, a retired CMSgt was able to decals for non-military members, but there was no ID card other than the standard CAP card without photo.  We had members who had been going to Bolling AFB for 20 years who, all of the sudden, couldn't gain access to the base for wing staff meetings. 

Around 2004 the base decided CAP was to be issued a plastic card for veh reg.  That's when the trouble started.  Depending on the gate guard some had no problem, others put me through the third degree.

Last fall I was entering the base (AF) for an airshow. The entrance I was using was for base registered veh only. I was working the airshow and was wearing my green zoom bag. I showed the gate guard my veh reg card and CAP ID....the new photo one.

The gate guard (civilian contract security) began yelling while pointing to my grade insignia that I was impersonating a military officer, it was a federal offense, and on and on. He was about to drag me out of the car when he finally looked again at the ID and saw my grade (Major) on it.  He backed off, snarled and reluctantly let me proceed.

I am well within the hgt/wgt/grooming standards for the AF uniform. So it wasn't a case of  lack of military bearing,long hair, etc.

That's another issue, the civilian contract guards.  Best thing I can say is give them a chance, they're hyped up and ready to conquer the world as a gate guard.  It does make me feel good that they're scrutinizing a little more than just taking whatever ID, even if it doesn't match the person showing it.

One thing my old squadron did (in DC wing) before I got there, was post a CAP cadet NCO at the gate to the airfield with the MPs on duty to give positive ID for CAP members and answer any questions a visitor to CAP may have.  They'd be on duty from 18:30 to 19:00.  What a great responsibility for a cadet, huh?  Not sure how long that lasted but thought it was a good idea.

[DogCollar]

Just thinking a little out of the box...how possible would it be for someone (preferably the CC) from a unit that meets on a military base that has Civilian Gate Guards to meet with that details superior, and then meet with the detail at a staff meeting, new employee orientation, etc...to give a quick overview of CAP, inform them of regular meeting schedule, and answer questions?

It seems reasonable to me that a lot of the issues described here could be soothed with some face to face time and good, concrete communication.

[Stonewall]

I agree 100%.  I'm pretty sure our Asst State Director did something like that at Bolling AFB, but for some reason or another, the word never got passed down to the dude standing at the gate.

Regardless of our experience with Bolling AFB, I'd still do exactly what you said because I do think its worth doing and think it could work for you.

[flyboy90]

How do we go about getting a ID card for easy access to an AFB? I live close to MacDill AFB and I here stories of how it takes up to 2 hours to get through the gate without the right ID card.

[Stonewall]

How do we go about getting a ID card for easy access to an AFB? I live close to MacDill AFB and I here stories of how it takes up to 2 hours to get through the gate without the right ID card.

Does your squadron meet on the base?  If so, there should already be some system to allow you on base during your meeting times.  That doesn't mean it'll be free of problems, but it shouldn't be an issue.

Or, do you just want to get on base to go to the uniform shop?  If that's the case, I suggest making it an "activity" of sorts.  Use a corporate vehicle or maybe get a parent from your squadron who is in the military to get you on base.

Only military members and their dependents, contractors (temporary and permanent), retirees and DOD employees are issued CAC (common access card) cards, aka the current ID card used by the military.  Some bases have a "base ID card", but I've only seen those on a Navy base.  YMMV.

[Flying Pig]

When I was a cadet, my Squadron met at March AFB in Riverside Ca.  We had exchange privileges as well.  One day another cadet and I were walking around base and went to the exchange, where they had a food court, etc.  We went into the PX uniform store and bought somethings and were walking.  Suddenly an AF enlisted guy, an Amn or A1C if I recall, (this was about 1988) starting following us through the parking lot yelling at us that we were "wannabe Air Force".  He was actully following us, yelling it at us.  Wierd.  All I remember is someone yelling at this turd...then told us to keep walking and that he would take care of it.  Other than that, Ive never seen anything.   

[Becks]

Here at Chas AFB we set up an EAL with the entire Squadron's roster to go to the MCSS duing its hours of operation. Seems to have worked pretty well.  We're also trying to superceed that with an MOU so that a CAP ID would be a valid form of ID for entry, since currently for some reason it is on the blacklist.

[Smokey]

According to what I've read...DOD is doing away with registering vehicles and the decals are a thing of the past.  The press release I read said random checks by security forces would be done to see if a veh was registered and had insurance.

The base I go to is AF Material Command and my ID is titled "Air Force Material Command Indentification Credential"  (AFMC Form 387). It was issued because I am the CAP rep for a major activity that occurs on base, sometimes on short notice, and need to be able to access the base without delay. At times, due to the activity, access to the base is restricted and some movement on the base is restricted.

[arajca]

It's kind of funny, since Buckley AFB changed to contract gate guards, it's been easier for me to get on base. I hand the gate guard my CAP membership card and state DL, guards matches picture on DL with driver (me), matches name on CAP MC with DL, hands them back, and waves me in with a cheerful "Have a good day, Captain." Of course, I usually give them a cheerful time-of-day appropriate greeting while handing the cards over, but I'm not sure that helps. I have heard of CAP and other (incl. some DoD) folks having problems, but usually they're showing bad attitudes.

[DNall]

The biggest issue with me is recognition of the ID as being an official format, and frankly changing the DoD rule to allow access for MCSS/AAFES access unless they're on lock-down or something. Life shouldn't be so hard on our members.

Anyway, to the original point of "be a CAP officer, nothing more or less"... okay now define what a CAP officer is. I don't think anyone is trying to gain UCMJ authority over military personnel, but neither should CAP status relieve you of your responsibility to live up to the stanbdards of our AF-team. A lot of people think that is an out for them, that it releases them from quality uniform wear, continual education as an officer, actual leadership skills, an obligation to duty, core values - especially the service one, responsibility, and anything else that's convenient for them at the time. Well that's just unacceptable. They understand why the military does those things, but then start into a rant about how we aren't the military. Fine, we're not the military, but you should have the pride in CAP to understand it's not supposed to be all that different.

That's my opinion, I'm sure there's plenty others. But, you can't say "be a CAP officer, no more or less," cause the meaning of that IS the debate.

[SAR-EMT1]

Exactly. And the thing is..whether everyone here believes it or not, CAP is a PART of the Air Force team. - Not necessarily the Air Force, but part of the team. Same as the CG Aux.  I know the comparrison is slim to many here but the fact is that they are recognized for what they are, and the "gold side" sees that they have a valid purpose in life. The CG Aux also gets SOME privileges we dont.
Is the issue not so much be a CAP Officer as finding out WHAT a CAP Officer is, and where we fit in with the rest of the AF TOTAL FORCE.
- AD, Res, ANG, Aux, Civilian

If thats done I HAVE to think that that problems such as valid ID, Gate guards, Base privilieges, and the like will disappear.

[MIKE]

Story time:  I was at Hanscom for CLC and was getting some lunch at the pizza house on base...  While waiting in line I got greeted with an "Afternoon captain"... I turned to see a USAF NCO in a Gore-tex... I think I ended up saying like "uh afternoon" or "uh hi"  I just remember it being really ackward... If I can't even return a greeting from a service member, I'll be [darn]ed if I'm gonna go trolling for salutes.

[Stonewall]

It bothers me when people say "we're not real officers" or "this isn't the real military".  Why are people so worried about what we aren't.  No, in the Air Force (guard) I'm an NCO.  In Civil Air Patrol I'm a Lt Col.  I didn't steal the rank, I didn't cheat for it and I absolutely earned it.  I EARNED THE RANK OF CAP LT COL.

When I was 30 and about to pin my silver oakleafs I had second thoughts on the idea.  As if being a 26 year old Major was any better.  But some very wise veterans of CAP and military alike, told me exactly what I said up above.  I'm a CAP Lt Col and that's that.  I've never told anyone I was an Air Force officer nor have I ever expected a salute from an enlisted troop.  Ironically though, I get salutes.  I'm sure a lot of them go by the rule of when in doubt whip it out, but hey, I sharply return my salute and drive on.

I guess I'm just comfortable with being a CAP Lt Col.  No issues here, just carry myself with confidence and military bearing and I've never had a problem.  It is funny when your fellow soldiers, now airmen, find out you're in CAP and give you a hard time, but I know they're just jealous 

[SAR-EMT1]

Can anybody comment on how members of the OTHER services treat CAP types? - Army, USMC, etc...

[Monty]

Can anybody comment on how members of the OTHER services treat CAP types? - Army, USMC, etc...

There were many times my wife (former Army QM Officer) would get changed at work and head to a CAP meeting.

Most of the Army types at her office (her boss too) asked, "what the heck is that?"  She'd tell 'em, they'd say "oh," and go about their business.

Nothing really all that exciting (usually isn't.)

[Stonewall]

A lot of squadrons meet on Army bases or in Army National Guard armories.  My squadron in Virginia met on Davison AAF (Ft. Belvoir).  NOTHING but support and respect.  One time I picked up the keys to the training area on a Wednesday prior to a weekend activity and by Friday they had changed the lock.  Called the MPs who said "cut the lock, we know who you guys are, not sure why they changed the locks without telling anyone".  The Watch Commander (SSG) came out to make sure we were good to go.

Helicopter Simulator time, orientation flights in Blackhawks and Hueys.  Use of their obstacle course and rappel tower, with Army Rappel Masters.  The Army even gave us 2 offices and a huge storage room with lockers. 

USMC?  If we weren't training at Ft. AP Hill, Ft. Pickett or Ft. Belvoir (all Army bases) we were at Quantico MCB just a few miles south of our squadron.  CAP had been using Quantico for more than 20 years and had nothing but support.  Even got to the point where they knew some of us by name.  Read my story above about being on a mission where the USMC supported us.

Coast Guard?  Yep, shut the ELT off on the Commandant's bird one night at National Airport.  Those guys knew esactly who we were and even gave us a tour of their small facility there.

Navy?  Not too much experience with them other than being a cadet where we shut off their ELTs on the SH-60 Seahawks all the time.  They were familiar with us and we even had some active duty Navy types in the squadron back then.  Me and several other cadets had hours upon hours in P-3, F-18 and SH-60 simulators over the years.

I've really never had any problems; no butting heads and no embarassing moments. 

[mikeylikey]

I have found that when you take the time to explain what CAP is and what it does, all the services will support you.  It would be interesting to see which service actually gives the most support to CAP units in terms of meeting space and related support.  I would have to guess the Army (National Guard), since there are more armories.

[DNall]

I guess I'm just comfortable with being a CAP Lt Col.  No issues here, just carry myself with confidence and military bearing and I've never had a problem.  It is funny when your fellow soldiers, now airmen, find out you're in CAP and give you a hard time, but I know they're just jealous 

Well now, that just makes them good targets for recruiting doesn't it?  

I've never had any problem with the military, very cordial in fact, a little bit of fun teasing at times but always with respect. Every now & then there's an issue witha gate guard, which as someone said is more about the attitude of someone that thinks they're there to save the world & now their just bored hot & sweaty wishing something would happen. For the most part they are very curtious as well, and it does help I think to offer I noticablly nice greeting while digging for your stuff, and to concisely explain why you are coming on base without being asked. Make their life easy & they'll return the favor.

Can anybody comment on how members of the OTHER services treat CAP types? - Army, USMC, etc...

There were many times my wife (former Army QM Officer) would get changed at work and head to a CAP meeting.

Except now it's a LOT more work than just switching BDU tops. Dang Army!!

In general the Army is very nice, at least on the guard side. They have SDFs & cadet programs like NSCC running around all the time, so they're a little more used to wierd IDs & uniforms, as well as the kids running around & their parents having to come in & out to get them. I had a problem once at a PX with a new checker & the manager cleared it right up (helped that the reg ref & graphic of our IDs was taped up next to the register). Got a unit down here that a reserve AV unit started & hosts. Can't speak much for active, but in general at least the aV branch is pretty fond of at least our cadets, and certainly has a respect for SaR given the work they do with CSAR.

Coast Guard we do extremely well with, at least the Air Wing here. Used to do joint ops & Ex with them all the time. One mission, they got hits & sent a cutter out, couldn't find so we came in, found an EPIRB off the same cutter laying on the table in the radio room. Funny night. Generally it's all smiles & respect. Just did a thing last month with cadets climbing all up thru one of their helos with a bad azz former ranger batt now rescue swimer doing the tour.

Hadn't dealt much with marines. Done a few missions with navy personnel that were also in CAP, and a few things out toward Corpus, but not much.

[AlaskanCFI]

Only military members and their dependents, contractors (temporary and permanent), retirees and DOD employees are issued CAC (common access card) cards

Now that I am retired it is still a problem with some of the new civilian gate guards.  30 days after I went into the retired ready reserves, they took away my CAC (has a bar code on it for door and computer access) and gave me an old style lamented ID card with a bad photo.  It is a yucky pink color.  Now they think I am some sort of dependant.

Add in a retired NCO car sticker from my wife and me wearing Captains bars on my flight suit, while supposedly being retired and things get very confusing.


You should have seen what happened back before I retired as a State Law Dog.  I was staying on the base one night and they decided that my vehicle was the lucky one to be searched.  I mentioned they might find a few guns and some ammo.  The person leading that confused exercise  was not grasping the Police end of things, just a car full of guns, ammo, tear gas, body armor and other assorted things.  Later after things calmed down I pointed out that they should have searched me as well.  Then I opened my jacket.  

Remember, being sent to the gate is not a reward.

[SAR-EMT1]

Only military members and their dependents, contractors (temporary and permanent), retirees and DOD employees are issued CAC (common access card) cards

Now that I am retired it is still a problem with some of the new civilian gate guards.  30 days after I went into the retired ready reserves, they took away my CAC (has a bar code on it for door and computer access) and gave me an old style lamented ID card with a bad photo.  It is a yucky pink color.  Now they think I am some sort of dependant.

Add in a retired NCO car sticker from my wife and me wearing Captains bars on my flight suit, while supposedly being retired and things get very confusing.


You should have seen what happened back before I retired as a State Law Dog.  I was staying on the base one night and they decided that my vehicle was the lucky one to be searched.  I mentioned they might find a few guns and some ammo.  The person leading that confused exercise  was not grasping the Police end of things, just a car full of guns, ammo, tear gas, body armor and other assorted things.  Later after things calmed down I pointed out that they should have searched me as well.  Then I opened my jacket.  

Remember, being sent to the gate is not a reward.

Thats amazing.   

[Eagle400]

It bothers me when people say "we're not real officers" or "this isn't the real military".  Why are people so worried about what we aren't.  No, in the Air Force (guard) I'm an NCO.  In Civil Air Patrol I'm a Lt Col.  I didn't steal the rank, I didn't cheat for it and I absolutely earned it.  I EARNED THE RANK OF CAP LT COL.

That's a great point, sir.  It does seem to me that there are people out there who are more worried about what CAP is not, rather than what it is.   

I think the reason why there are people who focus on what CAP is not is because of superstitions and stereotypes about CAP and its members.  The aforementioned cartoon is a good example of that.  You have the uptight, wannabe CAP lieutenant being insubordinate to the Air Force lieutenant, who thinks CAP is a joke, calling it a "club."  A Marine comes along and says, in effect, "Well, at least the CAP member is just pretending so he's off the hook as far as the UCMJ goes."

The unfortunate thing is, every time a CAP member seriously screws up and makes CAP look bad, it perpetuates existing superstitions and stereotypes.  There will always be people who think CAP is a joke and full of wannabe airmen, and those are the people who come up with the stereotypes and superstitions. 

The best way to lay these stereotypes and superstitions to rest is to be professional, live both the Air Force and CAP core values, and don't act like a wannabe.       

[Stonewall]

I think the "stereotypical" CAP member that some military members associate with CAP are no different than people taking notice of one bad thing out of 100 good things.

You know, how no one ever notices when you do your job right, but they always notice when you do it wrong.  Same goes for CAP.

I'm not personally attacking any one individual or any member of CAP that is overweight or not groomed IAW Air Force standards.  Everyone has their place in CAP and they also have a variety of uniforms to choose from regardless of their physical stature.  That being said... Could you imagine the overweight ill-groomed senior with a frayed uniform, rank not even close to being sewn on properly with one pant leg tucked in his dirty boots and one pant leg around his ankle?  I have seen it myself, in person, more than once.  That is the person you do not want associating with military members or representing CAP externally.  That same person may be the SAR God of SAR Gods.  But his appearance is the exact opposite of what we try to accomplish in CAP as it relates to a positive image, uniformity and professionalism.

Back in the day, someone PM'd me because of something I said about an over weight CAP member on CadetStuff.  Look, there are heavy people in this world and ignoring doesn't make it go away.  There are people in CAP that make CAP look less than professional; less than military.  That person took offense to what I said and it wasn't much more than what I wrote here in this post.  The fact is, that whether you like it or not, society will judge you by your appearance first, and only after that first impression will they judge your actions.  If you're actions aren't up to par along with a crappy appearance, well you just wasted the work of hundreds of CAP members who do cut the mustard in appearance and actions combined.

The military as a whole frowns on their troops being overweight.  Being "heavy" in the military is a faux paux.  In my wife's Medical Squadron, her TSgt was denied a promtion to MSgt based on the appearance of being over weight in uniform.  Its not an insult, its a fact.  The TSgt, although one squared away airman in her specialty, is not keeping in tune with the "expeditionary air force" mindset.  Fit to fight is the way to go now.  The air force, as best as I can tell, doesn't really seem to have a weight chart.  I'm sure they do but I've never seen it.  But the Colonel reviewing her promotion packet denied promotion solely based on her appearance.  That's no lie or made up story, heard it straight from the TSgt.

[Murph]

Hey everyone - I'm Lt Murphy - yes the guy in the cartoon.  I am good friends with Farva (the guy who writes the cartoon).  I asked him to feature a CAP member in one of his cartoons.  Many of you may not realize that this character, Lt Dahl, is the portrayal of a "typical" USAF fighter pilot - attitude and all.

The message that the cartoon is trying to show - from the authors point of view - is that a CAP Lt should be respected for their dedication and work ethic as much as any other Lt.  He has a lot of respect for CAP and the work we do - all he's trying to do is show that to his fellow USAF members.  Many of them don't even realize that everything we do is volunteer.  In ALL of my interactions with the USAF I have received nothing but respect - my experience with the other branches has been about the same if not better.

Feel free to flame me out as you see fit.

Semper Vi,
Scott F. Murphy, 1st Lt, CAP
Director of Logistics
Illinois Wing
United States Air Force Auxiliary  |  Civil Air Patrol

"The Air Force auxiliary continues to stand above the rest in its dedication and compassion for others," - Lt. Gen. Carrol H. Chandler, Deputy Chief of Staff Air, Space and Information Operations in Washington, D.C.

[Stonewall]

Nothing to flame, I think its an excellent portrayal.  Good job.  Hooah!

[Fifinella]

How do we go about getting a ID card for easy access to an AFB? I live close to MacDill AFB and I here stories of how it takes up to 2 hours to get through the gate without the right ID card.

Only military members and their dependents, contractors (temporary and permanent), retirees and DOD employees are issued CAC (common access card) cards, aka the current ID card used by the military.  Some bases have a "base ID card", but I've only seen those on a Navy base.  YMMV.

Actually, "lowly" military dependents don't rate CACs.  Too expensive.  We get the old-style IDs.

[DNall]

The fact is, that whether you like it or not, society will judge you by your appearance first, and only after that first impression will they judge your actions.  If you're actions aren't up to par along with a crappy appearance, well you just wasted the work of hundreds of CAP members who do cut the mustard in appearance and actions combined.

That's a personal pet peeve of mine.

People see you & make an assessment on your appearance before anyone opens their mouth, that's called a first impression. That means they set a mark for you on the scale of how good you can or cannot be in their minds & no matter what you do after that you can only move up a small fraction from there, that's called they psychology of expectations.

A lot of people think they are great cause they volunteer their time & do some ES. Look, if there's one person in CAP that meets WSAR standards, they didn't get the training in CAP. The greatest SaR-gods we got in this org stack up where against the pros? Most, as in 98%, of our ES focused members aren't by real standards qualified to go into the field as trainees, much less ICs. That's what you're capable of demonstrate to them in actions. In the grand scheme of things, you ain't that hot a stuff, no matter how great you are by CAP standards.

On the other hand, if that first impression associates in their mind that you meet military standards, then that comes with an implied credibility. They suddenly believe w/o proof that you are at least as qualified as any pro sar team, and all you can do from there is disprove their expectations & let them down so they think you're junk. If you go in there looking and acting like the military & saying you're CAP &/or the AF sent you out to take care of XYZ, well then you're going to play into those expectations & people are going to give you the latitude to do your job. Even if NB decided tomorrow & AF funded 50mil to get everyone trained to pro standards, congress passed paid work leave bills & per diem money... even at the end of that we'd still want people to assume we're qualified rather than having to pull out the mile long strip of credentials to prove it. We'd want them to assume we can do the job & then go prove they were right to trust us.

If you want to call that philosophy one of a poser, well I don't accept that moniker. If you think it's unethical to let people think you are something you aren't, then CAP should stop doing ES until it can get its crap together & hold its own next to real experts. You should drop the cadet program while you're at it, cause I doubt we can put enough really qualified officers on line to support it the way it should be. Is CAP a club or a joke or boy scouts with airplanes? Well that's a matter of perspective. I personally think it's a royally jacked up org full of really good people and based on really good things, which result in massive potential for greatness. YMMV

[DNall]

Hey everyone - I'm Lt Murphy - yes the guy in the cartoon.  I am good friends with Farva (the guy who writes the cartoon).  I asked him to feature a CAP member in one of his cartoons.  Many of you may not realize that this character, Lt Dahl, is the portrayal of a "typical" USAF fighter pilot - attitude and all.

The message that the cartoon is trying to show - from the authors point of view - is that a CAP Lt should be respected for their dedication and work ethic as much as any other Lt.  He has a lot of respect for CAP and the work we do - all he's trying to do is show that to his fellow USAF members.  Many of them don't even realize that everything we do is volunteer.  In ALL of my interactions with the USAF I have received nothing but respect - my experience with the other branches has been about the same if not better.

That's great, I didn't go over & look, I hadn't realized that was an actual catroon from him, I thought Joe just mod'd one for this post. Really happy to see that, and dp thank him for us, we do all appreciate it.

[Major Carrales]

If you want to call that philosophy one of a poser, well I don't accept that moniker. If you think it's unethical to let people think you are something you aren't, then CAP should stop doing ES until it can get its crap together & hold its own next to real experts. You should drop the cadet program while you're at it, cause I doubt we can put enough really qualified officers on line to support it the way it should be. Is CAP a club or a joke or boy scouts with airplanes? Well that's a matter of perspective. I personally think it's a royally jacked up org full of really good people and based on really good things, which result in massive potential for greatness. YMMV

Dennis,

CAP is what it is, a volunteer absolutely part-time resource made of Citizen Volunteer Airmen.  The ES we do should not not be stacked up to other standards unless we as CAP are getting paid for it, as real experts do.  It is, however, the needed contribution of Citizens to their Nation's Air Force , Community ,State and Nation.  That is the spirit of CAP.  There will always be those that don't maintain high standards...it is our duty to bring them up.

Fact is that CAP ES is (along with volunteer Fire Departments, the USCGAux and other such groups) a chance for ordinary citizens to take part in their community in a unique and meaningful way.  It promotes awareness and gives peopel to "take ownership" of "Civil Defense." Same for the Cadet Programs.

Don't compare CAP to JROTC or the like because there too it is an unfair comparison.  CAP practically wrote the book on Volunteer Auxiliary Cadet Programs, its mostly based on parents, teachers and public servants assisting a generation of childern understand Citizenship and Leadership by those desriring to exercise Citizenship and Leadership.

I don' t know how many times it has to be said, our program does not have recruiting for the Military at its core...it is a Citizenship and Leadership initive.   In that case, I think we are more than qualified...especially those CP gurus that devote more time to making cadet programs work than most active teachers I know....and without pay.

Dennis, I don't know why you make posts like this.  They send an inaccurate reflection of what I know you to be.  They make you seem like an Anti-CAP type (especially ES, when I know you strive to make it better) and a proponent of killing the Cadet Program (when you have been so helpful to me with mine).

[LtCol White]

IN my CAP Career, I have always enjoyed excellent relations with all branches of military. With both GAWG and LAWG we rec'd outsanding support and cooperation. They have always been courteous and respectful. Always willing to show their toys to the cadets and have them on base for activities. Even got airlift for a groundteam to the moutains once from the army for an ELT coming from their area at Camp Merrill. The Rangers used to let us hold activities at Camp Merrill when they didnt have class up there. The RI's would teach field skills for the cadets as well as run rappelling training for them.

[AlphaSigOU]

Many memories from my days WIWAC going to Camp Merrill and rappelling off the boards and doing the slide for life! (That was in the days of the late and legendary Ron Bradford.)

[jimmydeanno]

Only military members and their dependents, contractors (temporary and permanent), retirees and DOD employees are issued CAC (common access card) cards

Now that I am retired it is still a problem with some of the new civilian gate guards.  30 days after I went into the retired ready reserves, they took away my CAC (has a bar code on it for door and computer access) and gave me an old style lamented ID card with a bad photo.  It is a yucky pink color.  Now they think I am some sort of dependant.

Add in a retired NCO car sticker from my wife and me wearing Captains bars on my flight suit, while supposedly being retired and things get very confusing.


You should have seen what happened back before I retired as a State Law Dog.  I was staying on the base one night and they decided that my vehicle was the lucky one to be searched.  I mentioned they might find a few guns and some ammo.  The person leading that confused exercise  was not grasping the Police end of things, just a car full of guns, ammo, tear gas, body armor and other assorted things.  Later after things calmed down I pointed out that they should have searched me as well.  Then I opened my jacket.  

Remember, being sent to the gate is not a reward.

I can feel you there...

Military Guard Dependent (pinkish colored card), Base Enlisted Sticker on vehicle, Veteran Plates (vehicle is in wifes name), and wearing Captains bars...you should see the guards faces some days... 

[RogueLeader]

Only military members and their dependents, contractors (temporary and permanent), retirees and DOD employees are issued CAC (common access card) cards

Now that I am retired it is still a problem with some of the new civilian gate guards.  30 days after I went into the retired ready reserves, they took away my CAC (has a bar code on it for door and computer access) and gave me an old style lamented ID card with a bad photo.  It is a yucky pink color.  Now they think I am some sort of dependant.

Add in a retired NCO car sticker from my wife and me wearing Captains bars on my flight suit, while supposedly being retired and things get very confusing.


You should have seen what happened back before I retired as a State Law Dog.  I was staying on the base one night and they decided that my vehicle was the lucky one to be searched.  I mentioned they might find a few guns and some ammo.  The person leading that confused exercise  was not grasping the Police end of things, just a car full of guns, ammo, tear gas, body armor and other assorted things.  Later after things calmed down I pointed out that they should have searched me as well.  Then I opened my jacket.  

Remember, being sent to the gate is not a reward.

I can feel you there...

Military Guard Dependent (pinkish colored card), Base Enlisted Sticker on vehicle, Veteran Plates (vehicle is in wifes name), and wearing Captains bars...you should see the guards faces some days... 

Am suprised that you weren't denied entry, at least not with out an explnation as long as this post.

[jimmydeanno]

Honestly, I have never had an issue gaining entrance to any base.  The actual military dependant ID card usually trumps the other stuff.  CAPIDs I've had trouble with because the guard doesn't know what they are, has to call the command post, the supervisor comes out, he calls his supervisor, he looks up what CAP is, calls the supervisor, who tells the gate guard that we're good...

But the attitudes from the military personnel have never been anything but accomodating.  So many times have military personnel bent over backwards to make something happen for my cadets, and I truly appreciate them. 

I have heard the horror stories about CAP members getting into arguments with base enlisted personnel about not saluting, or not getting a DV spot on the tarmac when the CAP Wing Commander arrives, etc.  But as posted above, one bad apple...

I vary my uniform depending on what I'm doing.  If I am attending a soley "senior" function, I wear my polo combo.  If I'm working with the cadets, I wear what they do.  I don't really care what I am in CAP, there isn't anything that I am able to do as a Capt that I couldn't do as a 2d Lt.

[Grumpy]

At Camp Pendleton, they're still using the DOD stickers.  I have an NCO sticker on my vehicle that expires in '08 and my retired military ID (just in case) but most of the time they don't even look at it.  They wave me through almost every time.  If they do check my ID they get a little confused with the gold leaves on my shoulder and the MSGT rank on the ID card but a little explanation does the job.  I usually joke with them by telling them to add the Major's grade and MSGT rank together and make me a "Sergeant Major".

Major Brian Billing, CAP
Deputy Cmdr for Seniors
Sqdrn 47, Oceanside, CA

[mikeylikey]

At Camp Pendleton, they're still using the DOD stickers.  I have an NCO sticker on my vehicle that expires in '08 and my retired military ID (just in case) but most of the time they don't even look at it.  They wave me through almost every time.  If they do check my ID they get a little confused with the gold leaves on my shoulder and the MSGT rank on the ID card but a little explanation does the job.  I usually joke with them by telling them to add the Major's grade and MSGT rank together and make me a "Sergeant Major".

Major Brian Billing, CAP
Deputy Cmdr for Seniors
Sqdrn 47, Oceanside, CA

Quantico is the exact same way.  Everywhere I have been there is a 100% ID Check.  At Quantico, they see the DOD Decal and either wave you on, or salute and wave you on.  Hell......for all they know a terrorist killed me, stole my car, put some bombs in it and is intent on blowing up the Commissary.  Quantico sucks by the way!

[Stonewall]

Quantico is the exact same way.  Everywhere I have been there is a 100% ID Check.  At Quantico, they see the DOD Decal and either wave you on, or salute and wave you on.  Hell......for all they know a terrorist killed me, stole my car, put some bombs in it and is intent on blowing up the Commissary.  Quantico sucks by the way!

I love Quantico.  What sucks about it?  We did tons of training there when I was in NATCAP and I even spent some time training there in the Army.  In fact, my shooting team won a rifle competition there.  Quantico Arms is a great gear/gun store too.

[Eeyore]

At Camp Pendleton, they're still using the DOD stickers.  I have an NCO sticker on my vehicle that expires in '08 and my retired military ID (just in case) but most of the time they don't even look at it.  They wave me through almost every time.  If they do check my ID they get a little confused with the gold leaves on my shoulder and the MSGT rank on the ID card but a little explanation does the job.  I usually joke with them by telling them to add the Major's grade and MSGT rank together and make me a "Sergeant Major".

Major Brian Billing, CAP
Deputy Cmdr for Seniors
Sqdrn 47, Oceanside, CA

Good 'ole SQ 47, that's where I started my CAP career back in '97. Hope you are all doing well over there in sunny California.