Switching to ABU's

[antdetroitwallyball]

The only reason I can see that folks want to switch to them is this: It just shows that we have a link to our parent organization.  There is no purpose, no reason, no logic to us switching over. Even though 95% of the US military does not use BDUs on a regular basis, they are still used by various LEOs and other organizations. There was no real reason for the AF to switch either. There was no tactical or strategic advantage to using that uniform. They don't need to hide; where there is an airplane, there usually is a bunch of airmen running around servicing it. Admin folks don't need to blend in to their environment (although they sometimes do). I can't see any reason the AF NEEDED to change over to a digital pattern, and there is absolutely NO REASON we NEED to. The main proponents of the change are the cadets (83%) who think they are tak-ti-kewl, and the remaining 17% are divided among seniors who either think the same way or are sick of paying for cheaper knock-offs that don't last. At first, I wanted them to the point I went and got a set and put CAP insignia on it and found a pair of boots for cheap when I heard the "news" that the new uniform would be forthcoming SOON. Two years later it's still on the table (under the table and  buried under someone's shoes, really) and I have sold them and invested in more BDUs.

Very well stated. :clap: :clap:

However, when I wear the modified USAF uniform while serving in CAP, I am not a poseur, because I am not pretending to be something I am not.  I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, the volunteer Auxiliary of the United States Air Force.  I am proud of that connection with the Air Force.  Were we to lose it, I think we would be finished as an organisation.

I also agree.

As someone who's still in the USAF, I can say that we don't need to wear the same uniform in order to be part of USAF.

True, but an irelavent argument.

It doesn't hurt my feelings that I'm not a part of the "team" because the work we do, mostly independent of the Air Force, is worthwhile and productive. I feel a little cheated that we help guide a number of outstanding young adults into ROTC, Air Guard, and Air Force Academy without much support from them, but in the long run, they don't factor into what I do for CAP and couldn't care less if they want me on their team or not. I certainly don't care if I wear their uniform or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the USAF has never officially used language in recent times describing CAP as part of the "team." This is unlike the Coast Guard, which regularly and explicitly refers to "Team Coast Guard" as "AD, Reservists, Civilian employees, and Auxiliarists." CG AUX  IS part of the CG, we are not a non-profit. Our applications are processed directly through OPM, just like any other federal worker. Auxies where THE same exact uniform as the active duty, with only very minor differences. Does the CG worry that because Auxies wear the same uniform that we will all turn into posers and try to pass ourselves off as something we are not? No, because there has really never been a major problem. I personally feel that I am more "Coast Guard" than most of the CG reservists I know, simply because I spend more time working CG units doing active duty work. I don't carry a gun, but that is pretty much the only difference between myself and the active duty E3-E4's I work alongside. I very confident that the majority of the general public simply thinks I'm AD when I'm out on the water working with the AD guys.

However, I have never, ever used this for personal advantage. I never tell anyone that I'm a veteran, I never try to get out of traffic tickets or get vet discounts at stores. I don't wear my uniform outside of official business.

And my observations are that the majority of auxiliarists are the same as me in this regard.

My point is: In theory, CAP could be uniformed identically to the AD USAF and be made much closer in appearance to Ma Blue and yet have no major poser issues. The CG AUX has been around longer than CAP. However, it seems like CAP has much more of an issues with posers. Posers come from people not accepting CAPs role in assisting the USAF. Why CAP has a bigger issue with this is beyond me, and why the USAF seems more paranoid the the USCG about this issue is also perplexing.

I'm fine with whatever uniform we wear,  but it needs to have some connection to the USAF if we are performing work for them in an official capacity.

INHO, as long as the USAF is sticking AFJROTC kids in ABUs (which, let us be honest, is the ultimate form of officially sanctioned poser-ness), I fail to understand why CAP can't be trusted to wear the ABU responsibly.

[Storm Chaser]

As someone who's still in the USAF, I can say that we don't need to wear the same uniform in order to be part of USAF. In fact, Air Force civilians are considered part of the Total Force (Active, Guard, Reserve, Civilians) and they don't wear uniforms at all.

However, AF civilians are considered part of the Total Force, this is true.  But we are not, not on any AF documentation/website I have seen recently.  I have seen AF civilians recognised by the Air Force, and they are eligible to receive medals for their service that are very close counterparts to active AF decs...which we are not eligible to receive.

An AF civil service office worker is considered part of the Total Force, but a CAP volunteer is not.

If we're not part of the Air Force "Total Force", as you state, then why is it such a big deal that we wear the same uniform as the rest of the Air Force? Isn't that putting 'the cart before the horse'? We should continue to focus on accomplishing those missions mandated by Congress and in support of the Air Force overall mission; on being a contributing part of the Air Force "Total Force". Instead, we keep having these discussions about uniforms, awards, insignias, promotions, etc.

There are other things within the organization that have priority over these, yet every discussion seems to revert to this. I wear my CAP Air Force-style uniform proudly, but I didn't join CAP to wear an Air Force uniform; I joined because I believe in the mission, I believe in the contribution that we, as volunteers, can and do make. What we wear, while important, is not as relevant as what we do. Let's not forget that.

[antdetroitwallyball]

There are other things within the organization that have priority over these, yet every discussion seems to revert to this. I wear my CAP Air Force-style uniform proudly, but I didn't join CAP to wear an Air Force uniform; I joined because I believe in the mission, I believe in the contribution that we, as volunteers, can and do make. What we wear, while important, is not as relevant as what we do.

I totally agree with you regarding mission coming before uniform, but as you yourself stated, the uniform is still important.

1) It makes us look professional (when worn properly)
2) Wearing it should remind us to take our work seriously, when in the public eye.

I'm fine with CAP "looking like the USAF." What I think crosses the line is when I start to see people adding on ridiculous 1900+ hour packs with all this takikool gear that is just extra weight. My squadron has one cadet that is big on this, and I sometimes just question where he comes up with the money to even afford all the gear...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If we're not part of the Air Force "Total Force", as you state, then why is it such a big deal that we wear the same uniform as the rest of the Air Force? Isn't that putting 'the cart before the horse'? We should continue to focus on accomplishing those missions mandated by Congress and in support of the Air Force overall mission; on being a contributing part of the Air Force "Total Force".

If we were a part of the "Total Force" - and I believe we once were, decades ago (prior to the 1990s) - I think the discussion on whether we should/should not wear the AF-type uniform would be moot.

There are other things within the organization that have priority over these, yet every discussion seems to revert to this.

I think many of us who remember the "old days" are still smarting over the removal of blue shoulder marks and metal grade insignia, which is where a lot of the feeling of disconnect from the Air Force comes from.  It's not just that - replacement of LO's with SD's, then cancelling those; very, very few AF personnel at exercises/missions (in my AOR); the virtual demise of CAP-RAP; the non-information about us to the AF (which is without excuse: http://capmembers.com/cap_university/cap-familiarization-course/ - there is nothing stopping any AF or CAP member from taking this) and of course the rumoured and apocryphal "trolling for salutes" - but I believe there is still a lot of that feeling throughout the organisation.

I think it comes back to uniform issues because they are the most visible connection John Q. Public sees with CAP and the AF.

I wear my CAP Air Force-style uniform proudly, but I didn't join CAP to wear an Air Force uniform; I joined because I believe in the mission, I believe in the contribution that we, as volunteers, can and do make. What we wear, while important, is not as relevant as what we do. Let's not forget that.

You make a valid point.  However, I had to take a medical discharge from the ANG, and I viewed CAP as my way to continue my service to the Air Force.  Maybe I would not have continued with CAP had I been able to do 20-and-out with the ANG.  I do not know.

But as for what we do...I think the Air Force is largely ignorant of the many ways we could help them.