Why Doesn't CAP Conduct Wear Tests of New Uniforms/Uniform Items?

[Eagle400]

I've been trying to figure out why CAP does not conduct wear tests in the field for new uniforms/uniform items.  It would be a lot better than what CAP currently does, which is to introduce new uniforms/uniform items with little to no input from the members.  Plus, it would also put CAP more in line with the Air Force, which always conducts wear tests.

Does anyone know why wear tests aren't conducted by CAP? 

[TankerT]

Does anyone know why wear tests aren't conducted by CAP? 

CAP has done some test wear programs in the past.  Not many though.  It was costly to do so.

[dwb]

Honestly Smitty, how many user accounts are you going to create?

In the case of the TPU, Gen Pineda was the wear test.  We typically don't see uniform changes as rapid-fire as they have been, so wear testing wasn't really an issue.

If you think about the pre-Pineda changes made over the last 10-15 years, well, there weren't many.  The new service coat was handed down from the USAF, where it was wear tested extensively.  Other minor changes (like adding C/SMSgt and C/CMSgt) didn't really need wear tests.

It's a different story nowadays, since they apparently feel compelled to make a uniform change every 53 days.

[LtCol White]

Until recently, the majority of our uniforms were USAF with the only difference being insignia. Therefore, there was no need to wear test since it was all done by USAF.

The other issue is that we don't have people who wear the uniform daily (except some of the folks at NHQ) as does USAF so only wearing it to meetings once a week doesnt really make it a true wear test.

[Monty]

Honestly Smitty, how many user accounts are you going to create?

NO WAY!  SMITTY AGAIN?  Well THAT explains the "IP" topic on Cadetstuff.  Man....we need a dose of "Forum Valtrex" every so often to control the Smitty flare ups......

[DNall]

Wear test per-se wouldn't be the best strategy anyway. We're not testing comfort & durability after all (that can be done at NHQ), we're looking for input from the field on appearance... so, the best way to go is a bunch of pictures on the website with a good description, the justification bullets, potential costs & phase in periods, then ask for comments. That's easy & cheap. It would head off alot of these complaints & frustration in the field that contribte to retention problems. And just in general raise morale.

[dwb]

That's an excellent idea, DNall.

Depending on the change, a limited wear test can be had by having a couple Wing staffers wear the change to a Wing conference, and gather feedback from members there.

The evolution of the TPU proves that the "just shove it out there and worry about changes later" method isn't a good idea.  A lot of volunteer's money was wasted on metal rank insignia for flight caps, etc.

[DNall]

Depending on the change, a limited wear test can be had by having a couple Wing staffers wear the change to a Wing conference, and gather feedback from members there.

That's a good idea too. I believe they've done some of that before, but then just gone ahead & made the decision from there. Most people at NHQ aren't actually CAP members, and the ones that are tend not to wear a uniform to work. But they could do a some wear testing there, as well as have a couple on display at conferences. Then provide those comments on the website as well. I mean if it looks great & then ends up feeling terrible then I'm not going to be happy. So leave that website up with the proposal & take comments for 30 days, then put it to the committee to consider & then to NB for a vote. That's just the right way to do things.

[Eclipse]

The USAF is our wear testers.

As to the forum member - he popped up here, cs & the mil forums, rapid fire..

[O-Rex]

A lot of volunteer's money was wasted on metal rank insignia for flight caps, etc.

Not really a waste, but an investment in the TPU coat, right?

You want a TPU coat, don't you?  Of course you do!

Beware the black van. . . . . . . .

[DNall]

The USAF is our wear testers.

They don't test a change (like adding "US" on our branch tape) for member input. That's what the AF does when they consider a new item is do their homework & make sure the theory really works.

A lot of the problems with this stuff is springing it on members w/o notice. Most times you can do something people don't like & they'll go along w/ little complaint if you'll just tell them why you're doing it & listen for a little while.

Considering the complete lack of cost to do the idea mentioned, meassured against overall morale & retention issues, I can't see how it could reasonablly be refused.

[RiverAux]

Military wear testing doesn't always work very well -- The Coast Guard's new version of the BDU has received pretty universal disdain for comfort, usability, and durability.  I would love it if they had a hot-weather fabric and buttons on the pockets instead of velcro. 

As to CAP, most of the issues on this board relate to what is put on the uniform rather than the uniform itself.  Although I could see doing some testing of corporate uniforms.   

[MIKE]

Word on the street is that new ODUs are coming in '08 and have been in wear testing for some time now.

[Pylon]

Word on the street is that new ODUs are coming in '08 and have been in wear testing for some time now.

Interesting RUMINT.  ODUs as in the ol' solid greens for CAP to replace the BDUs?

[pixelwonk]

We've been wearing navy blue ODU's for a while now.  They're just making them more BDU like.
Going untucked for one, will probably be a blessing to most Coxn's who own facilities.  No gelcoat scratches from your belt buckle when leaning over things. 

[MIKE]

Word on the street is that new ODUs are coming in '08 and have been in wear testing for some time now.

Interesting RUMINT.  ODUs as in the ol' solid greens for CAP to replace the BDUs?

No, ODUs as in Operational Dress Uniform.  The blue BDU-like uniform worn by the USCG.  I was referring to RiverAux's comments about this uniform.

[DNall]

Just curious since we're drifting... is the new version going to work for our BBDU or is it still too dif?

[MIKE]

Still no lower pockets IIRC... Supposed to have some sort of CG logos on it too.  I would not expect them to be readily available for your average CAP member anyway.

[DNall]

I was thinking more in terms of some members being able to do double duty with the pants, but that's too bad on the blouses (I think we all have some connections on the real dark side). Do the service dress pants cross over too or is that a totally dif fabric?

[MIKE]

They are a different shade and weave.  In fact, the AUXMAN prohibits wear of the AF trousers with the Auxiliary uniform.

[DNall]

That's kind of silly on the CG's part. They're a real small service. If they're goig to go with an AF color it sure makes since to use the same pants & save a few hundre grand. The CG is usually masterful in finding those chances.

[pixelwonk]

They are a different shade and weave.  In fact, the AUXMAN prohibits wear of the AF trousers with the Auxiliary uniform.

Yet, people wear regular old navy slacks or even "Dickies" work pants with their tropical blue longs.
Sheesh...

That's kind of silly on the CG's part. They're a real small service. If they're goig to go with an AF color it sure makes since to use the same pants & save a few hundre grand. The CG is usually masterful in finding those chances.

So then you'd change the coat and the Winter dress blue shirt too?

[DNall]

That's kind of silly on the CG's part. They're a real small service. If they're goig to go with an AF color it sure makes since to use the same pants & save a few hundre grand. The CG is usually masterful in finding those chances.

So then you'd change the coat and the Winter dress blue shirt too?

I wouldn't have gone to a seperate fabric in the first place. Actually I don't like that the AF has AF blue looking uniforms, but if they're going to do it then they should consolidate a few items to save some money.

It's the same thing about AC/ABU/etc... that's all one giant cluster. BDUs came along to standardize for cost savings, now everyone has to do their own thing? That a huge waste of money. The Marines just had to be different, then the Army went & made ACUs, so the AF had to follow suit, when what they should have done is just adopt ACUs & be done with it. Same thing with the stupid berets (made in china no less).

[CadetProgramGuy]

Apologies to Awac'er

[CadetProgramGuy]

Sorry, caption says:

Give it up man!!

TP's never gonna allow that headgear!!

[DNall]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Everything else is getting changed.

[pixelwonk]

That's kind of silly on the CG's part. They're a real small service. If they're goig to go with an AF color it sure makes since to use the same pants & save a few hundre grand. The CG is usually masterful in finding those chances.

So then you'd change the coat and the Winter dress blue shirt too?

I wouldn't have gone to a seperate fabric in the first place. Actually I don't like that the AF has AF blue looking uniforms, but if they're going to do it then they should consolidate a few items to save some money.

It's the same thing about AC/ABU/etc... that's all one giant cluster. BDUs came along to standardize for cost savings, now everyone has to do their own thing? That a huge waste of money. The Marines just had to be different, then the Army went & made ACUs, so the AF had to follow suit, when what they should have done is just adopt ACUs & be done with it. Same thing with the stupid berets (made in china no less).

Despite how you feel about the utility uniforms and that the Air Force has blue uniforms to begin with, the Coast Guard trousers match the coat, hence why you can't wear AF trousers.

Personally I'd be more interested in why the Coast Guard follows AF styles for it's Trops as opposed to a Navy style, since it adopts it's three dressiest uniforms from the Navy as well.

In the end, it just doesn't matter. Blue collared people get the jobs done in air and sea.

[DNall]

Despite how you feel about the utility uniforms and that the Air Force has blue uniforms to begin with, the Coast Guard trousers match the coat, hence why you can't wear AF trousers.

No I completely understand their rule. Of course you don't want people wearing mis-match stuff, just like we don't let cadets where old style service coats with new style pants. That's fine. I certainly wouldn't change a CGAux rule one way or the other, I'm refering to the whole CG. If theyre were going to go with an AF colored uniform they should have used the same fabric throughout so elements like that could be shared at a cost savings to tap into the back of giant AF orders. I don't know that it'd be cheaper now to change to that.

Personally I'd be more interested in why the Coast Guard follows AF styles for it's Trops as opposed to a Navy style, since it adopts it's three dressiest uniforms from the Navy as well.

That I agree with, it's freakin wierd. Then mcPeak came along & AF officers looked like the CGAux, brilliant right there.

In the end, it just doesn't matter. Blue collared people get the jobs done in air and sea.

I'll get that memo over to the Army right away.  No doubt though, just curious as a quick efficiency aside.

Back to regularly scheduled programming... wear test/online proposal w/ comments period I believe was the topic at hand.

[Major Carrales]

It would be nice to see a uniform be released "whole," as opposed to being realsed....retooled...retooled...ad infinitum each time costing membership money.

Money that could be used for other more mission related matierals.

The type of test DNall and other have proposed where a website or uniform models could present the completed/in progrss uniform to the masses.

[RogueLeader]

Sorry, caption says:

Give it up man!!

TP's never gonna allow that headgear!!

lol