Death of the orange PAWG cap?

[Pulsar]

  ..., that in itself characterizes the type of people running the Wing.

Maybe then, not now. Maybe some, but not all. 

Added. IAW CAPM 39-1, Table 1-3, Line 2, any PA Wing distinctive headgear will be worn within the boundaries of the Pennsylvania Wing only, and my not be worn to activities outside of Pennsylvania unless otherwise approved by the Wing Commander where the activity is taking place.

Unfortunately, the PAWG orange ball cap is exchanged for a BDU cover when a Member of Pennsylvania Wing leaves the Wing to attend activities/ training/ missions in Northeast Region. That alone should be reason enough to retire PAWGs orange hats.

:clap: :clap: I agree with you on that. Additionally, if orange caps are to  be worn, they should at least be all uniform...We who live in PAWG know especially how many different variations on orange, types of caps, and fonts of numbers there are.

...But then, let's not turn this into a topic on "why PAWG should change it's cover".   But rather, help me come up with an argument that will go further than wing level in CAC. 

[Eclipse]

But rather, help me come up with an argument that will go further than wing level in CAC. 

CAC has no business involving itself in uniform issues unless an echelon commander has asked for your input, and then
it would only be in regards to uniform issues specific to cadets.

[Pulsar]

But rather, help me come up with an argument that will go further than wing level in CAC. 

CAC has no business involving itself in uniform issues unless an echelon commander has asked for your input, and then
it would only be in regards to uniform issues specific to cadets.

Is there any hope at all of it being changed? If so, how?

[abdsp51]

But rather, help me come up with an argument that will go further than wing level in CAC. 

CAC has no business involving itself in uniform issues unless an echelon commander has asked for your input, and then
it would only be in regards to uniform issues specific to cadets.

Is there any hope at all of it being changed? If so, how?

Make the recommendation through your CoC.  Provide the reason why it should be changed, validate it and offer a replacement.  Include all the information in it as possible, and then let the cards lay where they lie.

[Eclipse]

But rather, help me come up with an argument that will go further than wing level in CAC. 

CAC has no business involving itself in uniform issues unless an echelon commander has asked for your input, and then
it would only be in regards to uniform issues specific to cadets.

Is there any hope at all of it being changed? If so, how?

Maybe, but not likely.  Considering it's the only wing with a specific CAP in 39-1, unless the Wing CC feels strongly enough to
not only push the change but also change the reg it's probably around for the long haul.

[Pulsar]

But rather, help me come up with an argument that will go further than wing level in CAC. 

CAC has no business involving itself in uniform issues unless an echelon commander has asked for your input, and then
it would only be in regards to uniform issues specific to cadets.

Is there any hope at all of it being changed? If so, how?

Make the recommendation through your CoC.  Provide the reason why it should be changed, validate it and offer a replacement.  Include all the information in it as possible, and then let the cards lay where they lie.

I'm sorry, what's "CoC"?    I come from a very small squadron...11 cadets, including 2 company grade cadet officers (including myself), and 2 SMs. We are trying to recruit.

[arajca]

CoC = Chain of Command

[abdsp51]

CoC = Chain of Command

Beat me to it.

[Pulsar]

CoC = Chain of Command

Oh. I'm not quite used to (that particular) abbreviation.
Thanks alot

[RMW14]

The issue of the Orange hat has been fought over since I was a cadet (I started in '95). Multiple people and multiple attempts at all levels of the wing tried to change to a normal bdu patrol style cap with multiple wing commanders. All attempt have failed. I believe the Wing views the Orange hat as a symbol of the wing. That is my opinion and not one that has been stated by any wing or group staff member. I do know that the current wing commander stated at an open question session at PAWG encampment 2013, that the orange cap will remain the only head gear authorized in PAWG. That I did hear with my own ears.

If the new 39-1 requires everyone to wear the same headgear (bdu cap, orange hats, purple mohawk knit beanie, etc) then I would assume that the California wing would have to ditch their modified ground team uniform as well.

Do I like the Orange? Not really for day to day use at meetings and whatnot. I think it is good for working in the woods but I also think that if doing work in a wooded area, the orange safety helmet may be a good idea too.

[Eclipse]

I believe the Wing views the Orange hat as a symbol of the wing.

So does everyone else.

Tracers work both ways.

If the new 39-1 requires everyone to wear the same headgear (bdu cap, orange hats, purple mohawk knit beanie, etc) then I would assume that the California wing would have to ditch their modified ground team uniform as well.

The draft doesn't mandate this at all, PAWG has a specific specification, and CAWG can just update their supplement if they deem it necessary.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Do I like the Orange? Not really for day to day use at meetings and whatnot. I think it is good for working in the woods but I also think that if doing work in a wooded area, the orange safety helmet may be a good idea too.

I think a pullover reflective orange safety vest would turn the trick just as well...and then you can take it off, fold it up and keep it for next time needed.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Plus I will bet a safety vest is more effective for visibility. Not only because of the reflective material but because it is larger than a measly hat with no reflective strips.

Flyer

[RMW14]

I was under the impression that the orange safety vests were mandatory for GSAR operations? The vest is more visible than just the orange hat in the woods.

Of course there is always the people who point out the fact that people hunt in PA. I am pretty positive that people hunt in the 49 other states of the union too but I may be mis-informed.

[Luis R. Ramos]

It must be something in PA woods unique to the state... Either the woods there are not as dense as the woods in the other 49 states so the orange cap is enough...



Or the woods there cower when a CAP member with an orange cap goes by and wilt down...



Notwithstanding the regulation that states it is obligatory to wear an ANSI Type II safety vest...

Flyer

[Panache]

I believe the Wing views the Orange hat as a symbol of the wing.

Maybe the Wing leadership.  I suspect that the majority of the rank-and-file who's not on Hawk Mountain disagree with this.

If the new 39-1 requires everyone to wear the same headgear (bdu cap, orange hats, purple mohawk knit beanie, etc) then I would assume that the California wing would have to ditch their modified ground team uniform as well.

CAWG can simply issue a supplement in accordance to 6.2.11 much like PAWG, to designate a high-visibility cap as the "CAP baseball cap".

It must be something in PA woods unique to the state... Either the woods there are not as dense as the woods in the other 49 states so the orange cap is enough...
Or the woods there cower when a CAP member with an orange cap goes by and wilt down...

Yes, it is drives the local environmentalists crazy.   

[FW]

So every member of PA Wing MUST wear orange ball caps EXCEPT the individuals requiring everyone else to wear orange ball caps (they may wear blue).  That's not just ridiculous, that in itself characterizes the type of people running the Wing.

I don't know anybody in the Wing who likes the orange caps.  Unfortunately, it's not a democracy, so I wear the godawful ugly thing.

Not surprised by the "rules for thee but not for me" thing.  It's of the same phenomena where, higher up in the command hierarchy you go, the more people you see wearing the AF-blues who really shouldn't.

Gee, I never realized organge baseball hats were such a problem.  WIWAWCC, any CAPR 39-1 hat was authorized for wear; each squadron/group commander could select the hat. The day after I steped down it changed, because of the popularity of orange in PAWG. I, however, don't wear the BDU or BBDU. It isn't an issue for me,  however in a "uniform" situation, we should all look "uniform"; hats included...

[Pulsar]

I was under the impression that the orange safety vests were mandatory for GSAR operations? The vest is more visible than just the orange hat in the woods.

Of course there is always the people who point out the fact that people hunt in PA. I am pretty positive that people hunt in the 49 other states of the union too but I may be mis-informed.

Yeah, go on and say it...We all look like hunters. 

Also, as far as I'm aware, the orange safety vests are mandatory for GSAR operations. PAWG ground teams still wear vests...they just have a hat too. Also, as stated earlier, the orange caps are more a symbol of the ranger school. They can be somewhat useful for ES, but that's not their primary...or secondary... (or anything) purpose.

[lordmonar]

WOW......of all the weird stuff PAWG does.....the orange hat is what you have heart burn over?

My reading of the proposed manual would still allow commanders to set the color ball cap...nothing has changed in that regard.

[Майор Хаткевич]

WOW......of all the weird stuff PAWG does.....the orange hat is what you have heart burn over?

My reading of the proposed manual would still allow commanders to set the color ball cap...nothing has changed in that regard.

Yea, granted but I didn't realize the orange hat is the only option within PAWG.