Death of the orange PAWG cap?

[Panache]

So, I was perusing the draft 39-1, and I notice this section...

9.4 Items which May be Authorized by Wing Commander - Wing Commanders may authorize the following items to be worn for specific purposes within their respective wing or within specific units of their wing. Commanders will not use this authority to circumvent National policy. In all cases, these items will have no national significance or recognition as a part of the CAP uniform. They will not be worn at summer encampments or national events (cadet exchange, special activities, etc.), unless specifically authorized by National Headquarters. They may be worn only while performing the duty for which the use of the items was authorized. Wing/region approved items will be worn only within the boundaries of the authorizing commander. Examples of purposes of these items are to identify members of special CAP groups such as drill teams, bands, color guards, and members participating in emergency services'
missions.
9.4.1.1 Shoulder Cords. {..snip..}
9.4.1.2 Scarves.  {..snip..}
9.4.1.3 White Gloves.  {..snip..}
9.4.1.4 White and black belts.  {..snip..}
9.4.1.5 Helmet liners/Hardhat. Color to be determined by wing commander except that helmet liners authorized for wear by members participating in emergency services missions will be white and will be worn with a decal of the Emergency Services Patch (Version 1 or 2).
9.4.1.6 Beret. Only blue berets may be authorized under this paragraph.

(emphasis mine)

I could find no mention of authorizing orange caps for general wear with the uniform, and this section seems pretty cut-and-dry that a Wing CC putting out a supplement to authorize it is verboten.  Now, the orange baseball cap is authorized in 9.2.4 under "National Special Activities", but the way I read it is that it is only authorized while at Hawk Mt. proper.

   :clap:

[NIN]

Now, the orange baseball cap is authorized in 9.2.4 under "National Special Activities", but the way I read it is that it is only authorized while at Hawk Mt. proper.

   :clap:

I don't mind the carrot-top in the field (hey, you know, "visibility", "safety," whatever) but the outright "I need to wear my various and sundry orange hats, either with squadron numbers, or some embroidered Hawk Mtn logo, or one that looks like I swatted out an entire forest fire with it, while everybody else has to wear BDU caps" at squadron meetings, activities, etc is annoying.

UNI form. Uni=ONE. If you're in BDUs, you should look more or less like everybody else. Not one blaze-orange turd in the punchbowl.

[LSThiker]

They still can:

5.1.2.8Headgear. Headgear. Wear of headgear is mandatory. Either the BDU Cap, the CAP Baseball Cap or the Black Watch cap (when in a cold weather environment), may be worn.

6.2.11 CAP Baseball Cap. Wing and region commanders may prescribe color, unit designation, and/or emblem to be on the baseball cap. Appropriate civilian headgear may be worn during inclement weather. No rank insignia may be worn on this cap, and no emblems (clouds, darts, etc.) may be worn on the cap visor.

Since wing commanders can prescribe color, the PAWG CC can state that members wear orange.  The Hawk Mtn graduates however cannot wear them in their home states unless allowed.

[Panache]

They still can:
(snip)

(reads relevant sections, sighs heavily)

[Panache]

I guess it can be argued that 5.1.2.8 leaves the decision of the headgear up to the individual...

[JoeTomasone]

The real question: Will the Hawk folks finally have to get rid of all the other non-approved addition to their "mountain attire" like the ascot?  Will there be revolt?

[Panache]

The real question: Will the Hawk folks finally have to get rid of all the other non-approved addition to their "mountain attire" like the ascot?  Will there be revolt?

9.4.1.2 seems to allow the Wing CC to approve that.

[Storm Chaser]

More specifically, CAPM 39-1 Draft states:

9.2.4 Hawk Mountain Ranger Training. Graduates of this program may wear one Ranger tab awarded in accordance what that activity's procedures on the USAF-style BDU and Blue Field uniforms in accordance with instructions contained in Chapter 5. The orange baseball cap with squadron number or keystone device with grade insignia may also be worn with the USAF-style BDU and Blue Field uniforms in accordance with instructions contained in Chapter 5. Cloth grade insignia must be worn on the orange baseball cap when wearing the AF-style BDU uniform. Metal or cloth grade insignia may be worn on the orange baseball cap when wearing the CAP distinctive field uniform. (emphasis mine)

[Devil Doc]

I like my Orange Hat, with a Big Brazen Logo on the Front of the hat of my Unit. I hate the BDU Cap, If it was an 5 Point, different story.

[NIN]

The real question: Will the Hawk folks finally have to get rid of all the other non-approved addition to their "mountain attire" like the ascot?  Will there be revolt?

Is that a question? LOL.

[JoeTomasone]

The real question: Will the Hawk folks finally have to get rid of all the other non-approved addition to their "mountain attire" like the ascot?  Will there be revolt?

9.4.1.2 seems to allow the Wing CC to approve that.

That's for a scarf, not an ascot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascot_tie

[UH60guy]

More specifically, CAPM 39-1 Draft states:

9.2.4 Hawk Mountain Ranger Training. Graduates of this program may wear one Ranger tab awarded in accordance what that activity's procedures on the USAF-style BDU and Blue Field uniforms in accordance with instructions contained in Chapter 5. The orange baseball cap with squadron number or keystone device with grade insignia may also be worn with the USAF-style BDU and Blue Field uniforms in accordance with instructions contained in Chapter 5. Cloth grade insignia must be worn on the orange baseball cap when wearing the AF-style BDU uniform. Metal or cloth grade insignia may be worn on the orange baseball cap when wearing the CAP distinctive field uniform. (emphasis mine)

I'm a little confused on this paragraph. The other NCSA paragraphs refer to graduates of the program, or specifically mention something during training.
It mentions graduates for HMRS, but there are no stipulations for the orange hat other than to follow Chapter 5 (reference just says you put it on your head when in BDUs). I am sure the intent is to just authorize it only during training- but why don't they go the way of the other NCSA paragraphs and say that it could be worn "during the activity?" I ask now, and may sound silly, but just you wait: some hard-charging bling chaser HMRS graduate is going to show up with an orange cap in formation in say Michigan Wing.

Proposed solution: Take all the special uniforms out of the NCSA sections. Include a single sentence that says something like "Uniform requirements specific to the NCSA will be identified and published in advance of the activity by the appropriate program coordinator at National Headquarters." This way we don't need to publish an ICL every time a NCSA changes its uniform, NCSAs get approval from higher for the uniform deviations so we don't end up with something like Liederhosen required for the Aerial Alpenhorn NCSA, and new NCSAs can be entered into the system in the future without 3rd order consequences to the uniform regulations.

Call my old fashioned, but a uniform regulation should preach uniformity. Deviations shouldn't be listed here, but with supplements at the specific Wing or activity.

[Slim]

I ask now, and may sound silly, but just you wait: some hard-charging bling chaser HMRS graduate is going to show up with an orange cap in formation in say Michigan Wing.

Not silly at all, it's happened, member told to get the proper hat.

[PHall]

I ask now, and may sound silly, but just you wait: some hard-charging bling chaser HMRS graduate is going to show up with an orange cap in formation in say Michigan Wing.

Not silly at all, it's happened, member told to get the proper hat.

We've had it happen all the way out here in California Wing!

[Pulsar]

http://pawg.cap.gov/sites/default/files/pubs/PAWG-Supp-39-1-Dec11.pdf

...Interesting



I wonder what it's like wearing a BDU cap. I know PAWG pilots are thankful for the orange hats, all they have to look for is a bunch of orange dots to know where the ground team is located.

[Panache]

That's over two years old, Pulsar.

[Pulsar]

That's over two years old, Pulsar.

How long has PAWG had orange caps? ...just curious

[Patterson]

From the PAWG supplement to 39-1

Added. When wearing the woodland BDU's, the only authorized headgear for all flights, squadrons, and groups chartered under the Pennsylvania Wing is the orange baseball hat. EXCEPTION: The blue baseball hat, with the PA Wing Staff insignia embroidered on the front, is authorized for wear by members of the PA Wing who are assigned to PA001 charter. PA Wing HQ members may wear the orange baseball hat when performing ES duties as appropriate to their ES position (i.e. Ground Team Leader, Ground Branch Director, etc.). The above headgear will be worn appropriately in accordance with CAPM 39-1.

So every member of PA Wing MUST wear orange ball caps EXCEPT the individuals requiring everyone else to wear orange ball caps (they may wear blue).  That's not just ridiculous, that in itself characterizes the type of people running the Wing.

Added. IAW CAPM 39-1, Table 1-3, Line 2, any PA Wing distinctive headgear will be worn within the boundaries of the Pennsylvania Wing only, and my not be worn to activities outside of Pennsylvania unless otherwise approved by the Wing Commander where the activity is taking place.

Unfortunately, the PAWG orange ball cap is exchanged for a BDU cover when a Member of Pennsylvania Wing leaves the Wing to attend activities/ training/ missions in Northeast Region. That alone should be reason enough to retire PAWGs orange hats.

[Patterson]

That's over two years old, Pulsar.

How long has PAWG had orange caps? ...just curious

Since the 1960's. Purely a Hawk Mountain uniform item that was allowed to leave the mountain.

[Panache]

So every member of PA Wing MUST wear orange ball caps EXCEPT the individuals requiring everyone else to wear orange ball caps (they may wear blue).  That's not just ridiculous, that in itself characterizes the type of people running the Wing.

I don't know anybody in the Wing who likes the orange caps.  Unfortunately, it's not a democracy, so I wear the godawful ugly thing.

Not surprised by the "rules for thee but not for me" thing.  It's of the same phenomena where, higher up in the command hierarchy you go, the more people you see wearing the AF-blues who really shouldn't.