Civil Air Patrol Gortex Jacket Tab

[Pulsar]

What is this? How do you wear it on your jacket? What is a "gortex" jacket? Is it the regular BDU coat? 
http://www.vanguardmil.com/civil-air-patrol-gortex-jacket-tab-cadet-second-lieutenant-p-13652.html

thanks

[Brad]

It's not the same as the regular BDU coat. It is a water-repelling coat designed for cold weather or extremely wet weather. Read the ICL to CAPM 39-1 and scroll down, you'll see a picture that shows where it is supposed to go on the tab flap on the front of the coat at chest-level.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/2012_03_12_Uniform_Manual_EDA9CCE9FE03A.pdf

[Pulsar]

I don't have that type of coat. I have the regular; As a cadet officer, where do I wear my rank on the coat? 

[MIKE]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

[Майор Хаткевич]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

+100%

It's all there.

[Huey Driver]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

+100%

It's all there.

Or not!

[/hint]

[RogueLeader]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

+100%

It's all there.

Or not!

As for wearing the grade insignia on a field jacket IS all there. . . .
[hint]

[Майор Хаткевич]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

+100%

It's all there.

Or not!

[/hint]

I expect my cadet NCOs to know what an ICL is, and where to find it. Any cadet past WBA should have already checked out the cap members website and found the reg pages. ICLs are listed right next to the uniform manual.

[a2capt]

..and in the case of an issued ICL, I'd be reading that first.

Having witnessed someone very recently installing a Wing patch on blues, because while he admitted, "I know they removed it, but it's back now, it's in the manual"..

... it never -left- the manual. It was removed via ICL.   

[RogueLeader]

..and in the case of an issued ICL, I'd be reading that first.

Having witnessed someone very recently installing a Wing patch on blues, because while he admitted, "I know they removed it, but it's back now, it's in the manual"..

... it never -left- the manual. It was removed via ICL.

To be exact with CAPR 5-4 section 4, it is required to be incorporated into the affected regulation within 180 days.  So, technically, he is correct.  Not that we don't take it as given, but those changes are expired by CAP regulation.

[Pulsar]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

oh of course that's the first thing I did.
I guess what I meant to ask for is specifics. Do you actually sow the rank on the epulants (or however you spell them). And another thing that wasn't clear, Do you wear them on both shoulders?
thankyou

[Garibaldi]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

oh of course that's the first thing I did.
I guess what I meant to ask for is specifics. Do you actually sow the rank on the epulants (or however you spell them). And another thing that wasn't clear, Do you wear them on both shoulders?
thankyou

You SEW the blue embroidered rank on the epaulet, about 1/2 inch from the shoulder. Then, you sew a blue embroidered CAP cutout about 1/2 inch above that. Both shoulders, so that if you look sideways-on, you can read CAP above the grade, not CAP on one side and PAC on the other.

What gets me is that the picture in 39-1 shows the CAP well above the rank cutout on the epaulet. I've always sewn it 1/2 inch above the rank because it looks better. If that's the way it's supposed to be, my personal opinion is that it should be changed to the way I do things.  It just looks better IMO.

[Eclipse]

My.

Lord.

[Pulsar]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

oh of course that's the first thing I did.
I guess what I meant to ask for is specifics. Do you actually sow the rank on the epulants (or however you spell them). And another thing that wasn't clear, Do you wear them on both shoulders?
thankyou

You SEW the blue embroidered rank on the epaulet, about 1/2 inch from the shoulder. Then, you sew a blue embroidered CAP cutout about 1/2 inch above that. Both shoulders, so that if you look sideways-on, you can read CAP above the grade, not CAP on one side and PAC on the other.

What gets me is that the picture in 39-1 shows the CAP well above the rank cutout on the epaulet. I've always sewn it 1/2 inch above the rank because it looks better. If that's the way it's supposed to be, my personal opinion is that it should be changed to the way I do things.  It just looks better IMO.

thankyou very much sir!

[Garibaldi]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

oh of course that's the first thing I did.
I guess what I meant to ask for is specifics. Do you actually sow the rank on the epulants (or however you spell them). And another thing that wasn't clear, Do you wear them on both shoulders?
thankyou

You SEW the blue embroidered rank on the epaulet, about 1/2 inch from the shoulder. Then, you sew a blue embroidered CAP cutout about 1/2 inch above that. Both shoulders, so that if you look sideways-on, you can read CAP above the grade, not CAP on one side and PAC on the other.

What gets me is that the picture in 39-1 shows the CAP well above the rank cutout on the epaulet. I've always sewn it 1/2 inch above the rank because it looks better. If that's the way it's supposed to be, my personal opinion is that it should be changed to the way I do things.  It just looks better IMO.

thankyou very much sir!

Oh yeah, and another personal pet peeve of mine...center the insignia. And make sure there's not a whole lot of blue showing on the edges. 39-1 doesn't really stipulate how much blue that I can tell, but it makes me shudder whenever I see a lot. Call it about 1/8" maybe? No more than that. You have to do a lot of folding and ironing to get it right...

[Pulsar]

Then, you sew a blue embroidered CAP cutout about 1/2 inch above that.

Actually, I can't find that at Vanguard. Wear can you purchase that? (-the blue embroidered CAP cutout)

[RogueLeader]

linky

[Storm Chaser]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

oh of course that's the first thing I did.
I guess what I meant to ask for is specifics. Do you actually sow the rank on the epulants (or however you spell them). And another thing that wasn't clear, Do you wear them on both shoulders?
thankyou

You SEW the blue embroidered rank on the epaulet, about 1/2 inch from the shoulder. Then, you sew a blue embroidered CAP cutout about 1/2 inch above that. Both shoulders, so that if you look sideways-on, you can read CAP above the grade, not CAP on one side and PAC on the other.

What gets me is that the picture in 39-1 shows the CAP well above the rank cutout on the epaulet. I've always sewn it 1/2 inch above the rank because it looks better. If that's the way it's supposed to be, my personal opinion is that it should be changed to the way I do things.  It just looks better IMO.

thankyou very much sir!

Oh yeah, and another personal pet peeve of mine...center the insignia. And make sure there's not a whole lot of blue showing on the edges. 39-1 doesn't really stipulate how much blue that I can tell, but it makes me shudder whenever I see a lot. Call it about 1/8" maybe? No more than that. You have to do a lot of folding and ironing to get it right...

Actually, CAPM 39-1 does specify the amount of blue; it's 1/8 of an inch "at the widest and tallest point of the insignia..."

[Luis R. Ramos]

Eclipse-

Don't have a cow about Garibaldi's post.

Its

Not

Worth

A

Heart

Attack!

Flyer

[Майор Хаткевич]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

oh of course that's the first thing I did.
I guess what I meant to ask for is specifics. Do you actually sow the rank on the epulants (or however you spell them). And another thing that wasn't clear, Do you wear them on both shoulders?
thankyou

You SEW the blue embroidered rank on the epaulet, about 1/2 inch from the shoulder. Then, you sew a blue embroidered CAP cutout about 1/2 inch above that. Both shoulders, so that if you look sideways-on, you can read CAP above the grade, not CAP on one side and PAC on the other.

What gets me is that the picture in 39-1 shows the CAP well above the rank cutout on the epaulet. I've always sewn it 1/2 inch above the rank because it looks better. If that's the way it's supposed to be, my personal opinion is that it should be changed to the way I do things.  It just looks better IMO.

Half inch? Looks a lot more than that on the graphic (only the SM one). IIRC we deemed it 1.5 to 2" as a standard locally.  And that's another one of my pet peeves. They couldn't add the CAP above the cadet grade demonstration? But what Really grinds my gears are cadet officers who want to stick everything imaginable on the coat, but don't put the CAP/grade on the shoulders because "they promote too often". Really?

[Eclipse]

Eclipse-

Don't have a cow about Garibaldi's post.

Its

Not

Worth

A

Heart

Attack!

Flyer

It was aimed at Pulsar's spelling and grammar, Garabaldi got caught in friendly fire.

[Eclipse]

When I joined I set up the epaulets on the M65 to match the spacing on a standard shirt epaulet sleeve, I think that's a reasonable
interpretation and certainly "looks" right.

Somewhere I got it in my head that the "CAP" was supposed to be centered on the epaulet, regardless of how big it is. 
I have no idea where I pulled that from but I can't support it anywhere in the texts.

[a2capt]

To be exact with CAPR 5-4 section 4, it is required to be incorporated into the affected regulation within 180 days.  So, technically, he is correct.  Not that we don't take it as given, but those changes are expired by CAP regulation.

I chose not to go there, though I should have.  ;)While one would be correct, it's not worth the pissing match when challenging the uppers on that.

[RogueLeader]

To be exact with CAPR 5-4 section 4, it is required to be incorporated into the affected regulation within 180 days.  So, technically, he is correct.  Not that we don't take it as given, but those changes are expired by CAP regulation.

I chose not to go there, though I should have.  ;)While one would be correct, it's not worth the pissing match when challenging the uppers on that.

Which is why I don't have wing patches on blues.  I'm not saying that I do/do not use that for certain SUI items.

I'm just pointing it out that its there. . .

[Storm Chaser]

Since CAPM 39-1 doesn't provide specific instructions on the placement of the embroidered CAP on the field jacket (an unfortunate omission), I used the picture as a template and placed mine in a way that looked like the picture on the manual.

[Майор Хаткевич]

To be exact with CAPR 5-4 section 4, it is required to be incorporated into the affected regulation within 180 days.  So, technically, he is correct.  Not that we don't take it as given, but those changes are expired by CAP regulation.

I chose not to go there, though I should have.  ;)While one would be correct, it's not worth the pissing match when challenging the uppers on that.

Which is why I don't have wing patches on blues.  I'm not saying that I do/do not use that for certain SUI items.

I'm just pointing it out that its there. . .

Pretty sure intent behind their "eternal" ICL is to imply approval every 90 days while the overhaul happens.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Since CAPM 39-1 doesn't provide specific instructions on the placement of the embroidered CAP on the field jacket (an unfortunate omission), I used the picture as a template and placed mine in a way that looked like the picture on the manual.

I sent a question to the knowledge base on it twice. Second time with pictures  and drafting lines of the specof measurement ommision. Got a canned response both times to refer to the picture...about which i had the question...

Someone get technical, convert the image pixels to inches and post it up. 

[RogueLeader]

To be exact with CAPR 5-4 section 4, it is required to be incorporated into the affected regulation within 180 days.  So, technically, he is correct.  Not that we don't take it as given, but those changes are expired by CAP regulation.

I chose not to go there, though I should have.  ;)While one would be correct, it's not worth the pissing match when challenging the uppers on that.

Which is why I don't have wing patches on blues.  I'm not saying that I do/do not use that for certain SUI items.

I'm just pointing it out that its there. . .

Pretty sure intent behind their "eternal" ICL is to imply approval every 90 days while the overhaul happens.

Again, that is not allowed by regulation. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Agreed. But would also be silly to republish it every 90 days. Or...they could have stuck it in the beginning of that manual mess and call it a day.

[Eclipse]

Agreed. But would also be silly to republish it every 90 days. Or...they could have stuck it in the beginning of that manual mess and call it a day.

The proper procedure is to update the regulation.

ICLs are only supposed to be issued for emergency situations to start with, not as band aid until someone finds their
installer key for Adobe Acrobat.

You could make the argument that since no uniform item is an "emergency", the ICL itself was invalid on publication.
However barring a SCOCAP, these things just wallow.

And this kind of thing contributes mightily to the general malaise as well as the attitude that the regulations
are a menu and some are "important" and some aren't.

[Hawk200]

The proper procedure is to update the regulation.

There was an old concept of publishing a "change" to the pub. It included the new pages; you pulled out the old ones, inserted the new ones. Voila, current publication.

Seems like it wouldn't be too hard. But, it does make sense, so we probably couldn't do that.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Interim Rapid Action Change (IRAC). Consisted of doing exactly what he said ^. Take out the old page, put the new one in, annotate it in the front of the pub. Worked great in the USMC.

[tribalelder]

Back into early '90's, we relied on printed regs. Changes were distributed to units (and subscribers - yes, you ordered a set through the bookstore) as replacement pages to be inserted and minor changes by 'pen and ink'. Distribution ran 30 days in arrears of the changes. Worked well.

[Papabird]

Back into early '90's, we relied on printed regs. Changes were distributed to units (and subscribers - yes, you ordered a set through the bookstore) as replacement pages to be inserted and minor changes by 'pen and ink'. Distribution ran 30 days in arrears of the changes. Worked well.

I have at least three of these big blue binders in my office and the very last update envelope.  This was the world of the 20th century, and I used to love those large manila update envelopes.

That being said, we live in a "right now" world and have a digital version of the above with zero updates.  Bad juju and we get what we are discussing here.  Temporary regs/mans living well beyond their lives due to no one cracking open the PDF.

Being an Admin Geek, it has bugged me for years!

[Eclipse]

Back into early '90's, we relied on printed regs. Changes were distributed to units (and subscribers - yes, you ordered a set through the bookstore) as replacement pages to be inserted and minor changes by 'pen and ink'. Distribution ran 30 days in arrears of the changes. Worked well.

I have at least three of these big blue binders in my office and the very last update envelope.

Seriously, or I'm calling "Hoarders"...

[Papabird]

I have at least three of these big blue binders in my office and the very last update envelope.

Seriously, or I'm calling "Hoarders"...

NOOOOO!!!     LOL

[Luis R. Ramos]

I hated doing those updates.

During part of the time I was a Squadron Admin Officer I was also Group Admin Officer. So after I did Squadron I did the same at Group... Helped that Group and Squadron offices were in the same building!

But I would have preferred doing that now, when there have been no updates in a long time for 39-1!!!

Flyer

[Storm Chaser]

One good thing about those updates is that it forced you to read the changes and keep up to date. Now, many members don't even bother to go back and read regulations until they find out that what used to be is no more.

[Papabird]

One good thing about those updates is that it forced you to read the changes and keep up to date. Now, many members don't even bother to go back and read regulations until they find out that what used to be is no more.

Amen.  I even find myself getting "lazy" on that.  I have started sitting down and reading anything new off of the reg list. 

[Eclipse]

^ Long Live RSS - if you're not subscribed to those feeds, you should be!

Then you get things as soon as they are pub'ed , if nothing else.

[Garibaldi]

As a cadet officer, look it up in the Uniform Manual.

oh of course that's the first thing I did.
I guess what I meant to ask for is specifics. Do you actually sow the rank on the epulants (or however you spell them). And another thing that wasn't clear, Do you wear them on both shoulders?
thankyou

You SEW the blue embroidered rank on the epaulet, about 1/2 inch from the shoulder. Then, you sew a blue embroidered CAP cutout about 1/2 inch above that. Both shoulders, so that if you look sideways-on, you can read CAP above the grade, not CAP on one side and PAC on the other.

What gets me is that the picture in 39-1 shows the CAP well above the rank cutout on the epaulet. I've always sewn it 1/2 inch above the rank because it looks better. If that's the way it's supposed to be, my personal opinion is that it should be changed to the way I do things.  It just looks better IMO.

thankyou very much sir!

Oh yeah, and another personal pet peeve of mine...center the insignia. And make sure there's not a whole lot of blue showing on the edges. 39-1 doesn't really stipulate how much blue that I can tell, but it makes me shudder whenever I see a lot. Call it about 1/8" maybe? No more than that. You have to do a lot of folding and ironing to get it right...

Actually, CAPM 39-1 does specify the amount of blue; it's 1/8 of an inch "at the widest and tallest point of the insignia..."

I seem to remember that, but when I looked at my d/l copy of 39-1 it was too fuzzy to read.

[Garibaldi]

Eclipse-

Don't have a cow about Garibaldi's post.

Its

Not

Worth

A

Heart

Attack!

Flyer

It was aimed at Pulsar's spelling and grammar, Garabaldi got caught in friendly fire.

[Pulsar]

So another words, Do I wear the cap embroidered cutout 1/2" above the grade insignia or 1"- 2"?

[TexasCadet]

Eclipse-

Don't have a cow about Garibaldi's post.

Its

Not

Worth

A

Heart

Attack!

Flyer

It was aimed at Pulsar's spelling and grammar, Garabaldi got caught in friendly fire.

The guy shooting the Thompson looks like Captain Piccard.

[Garibaldi]

The guy shooting the Thompson looks like Captain Piccard.

It IS Captain Picard. From First Contact. The other is Mouth from the Goonies doing the Truffle Shuffle.

[TexasCadet]

The guy shooting the Thompson looks like Captain Piccard.

It IS Captain Picard. From First Contact. The other is Mouth from the Goonies doing the Truffle Shuffle.

Wasn't he also in Star Trek: The Next Generation?

[Garibaldi]

So another in other words, Do I wear the cap embroidered cutout 1/2" above the grade insignia or 1"- 2"?

FTFY.

I say 1/2" because it looks good. CAP Regs say the CAP cutout is...it looks like....maybe...centered between the top of the grade insignia and the button on the epaulet. Which I think looks awful. But that's my opinion. Do what the regs say. Put the C/2nd Lt insignia 1/2" up from the edge of the epaulet and center the CAP cutout (available from Vanguard) between the top of the grade insignia and the button.

[Garibaldi]

The guy shooting the Thompson looks like Captain Piccard.

It IS Captain Picard. From First Contact. The other is Mouth from the Goonies doing the Truffle Shuffle.

Wasn't he also in Star Trek: The Next Generation?

Oh MY God. *smdh* I am NOT having this conversation with you...

[Storm Chaser]

The guy shooting the Thompson looks like Captain Piccard.

It IS Captain Picard. From First Contact. The other is Mouth from the Goonies doing the Truffle Shuffle.

Wasn't he also in Star Trek: The Next Generation?

Star Trek: First Contact is the second movie based on Star Trek: The Next Generation TV series and the first with no cast members from the original Star Trek series.

[Garibaldi]

The guy shooting the Thompson looks like Captain Piccard.

It IS Captain Picard. From First Contact. The other is Mouth from the Goonies doing the Truffle Shuffle.

Wasn't he also in Star Trek: The Next Generation?

Star Trek: First Contact is the second movie based on Star Trek: The Next Generation TV series and the first with no cast members from the original Star Trek series.

I didn't tell him that because of three things. 1. He knew who Picard was and of ST:TNG. 2. How else is he going to learn if he doesn't do his own research? 3. I wanted to mess with him.

TexasCadet, you have a lot to learn about the Trek-verse, grasshoppah.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard was in Star Trek:The Next Generation. There were 4 movies spawned after the series went off the air.

Star Trek: Generations
Star Trek: First Contact
Star Trek: Insurrection
Star Trek: Nemesis

Arguably, the worst of the four was Nemesis. It killed off a favorite character and replaced him with a clone copy. Not to mention the story line was garbage. ST:FC dealt with The Borg going back in time to kill Zephram Cochrane, the creator of warp-field technology, which would have not only negated the Federation, but would have turned Earth into a giant Borg sphere and negated the existence of every other life form in the galaxy. Picard went back in time to try and stop them, and once they started turning his crew into Borg, he went into the holodeck and recreated one of his noir detective programs. The Borg infiltrated and he was able to kill some with the holo-Thompson. The rest is history, as Riker and LaForge were able to convince Cochrane, a hard-partying drunk, to go ahead with his misison. It's been a while since I last saw the movie, but the general gist of it was Picard saved the universe. Again.

Watch. Learn. Also watch all six Star Wars movies.

[Eclipse]

Watch. Learn. Also watch all six Star Wars movies.

Star Wars?

There's 2 films, one unofficial sequel, and 3 non-canon, direct-to-$5-video-bin-hacks that look like they were done using a weatherman's green screen.

At least in my world.

[TexasCadet]

I like Star Trek better than Star Wars. Star Trek is a little more believable.

[RogueLeader]

I like Star Trek better than Star Wars. Star Trek is a little more believable.

Who says lightsabers aren't real?


lightsabers-invented

[TexasCadet]

I like Star Trek better than Star Wars. Star Trek is a little more believable.

Who says lightsabers aren't real?


lightsabers-invented

Cool! I want one!!