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NCO Program Launched

Started by ProdigalJim, October 21, 2013, 10:36:18 PM

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ProdigalJim

http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?restructured_cap_nco_corps_to_mirror_air_force_structure_for_progress_promotion&show=news&newsID=17563

"Until now, CAP's NCO structure allowed only former active-duty NCOs to be a part of the corps, with no upgrade training for promotion within the ranks. The newly approved corps structure will mirror the Air Force NCO force structure, with an established process to promote and develop NCOs."

But then...no more details.

Anyone know anything further?
Jim Mathews, Maj., CAP
Commander, VAWG Group 3
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

Storm Chaser

I like the general idea of having a true CAP NCO corps with its own requirements, training, professional development, progression and duty assignments, among others. But in order for it to be truly successful, I think the officer corps would also have to be restructured and roles need to be defined. Otherwise, what would be the difference between an NCO and an officer if they can both do the same things?

NIN

Odd that the first I heard of this great announcement was an email from a friend of mine in the ATC across the pond.....
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

vento

... and I first heard about it from Facebook. Link here

RiverAux

Oh, I expect its what we've been hearing about for years -- some ways for NCOs to get promoted, but nothing addressing the real issue which is what they're actually supposed to be doing for CAP thats unique.  I'd be real surprised if we see anything other than changes to the promotion regulations. 

a2capt

Col. Myrick leaked it at the CAWG Conference earlier this month, too.

tkelley004

But remember a CAP CMSgt is out ranked by a 21 year old kid High School grad with a private pilot license who just completed level 1 and been in CAP less than 3 months. Be sure to render that salute...

Silly to have an NCO corps where the entry as an "officer" is so low. The current CMSGTAF must not have hated the idea as much as the last one did, heard when I was on active duty that was what prevented anything moving forward before now. I love the idea, but with a major rework of of how you become a CAP officer, but that did not happen.

Can't wait to take a look at this.. maybe I'll turn in my sliver oak leaves for SMSgt stripes and then become a chief! No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)
Tim Kelley, Lt Col, CAP
Bellingham Composite Squadron
Retired USAF SMSgt

SAREXinNY

I think it's a great idea.  There are a LOT of former/retired NCOs out there that would love to carry over their rank yet still have some type of PD program to follow.  Not everyone wants to be a staff officer or have ambitions of being a commander.  There are a lot of SMs I've met who want to just help out in an admin type role.  I hope this is rolled out properly and has well thought out regs.  I'm intrigued!

NCRblues

In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

Walkman

Even if the new policy doesn't go as far as some would like, I'm still going to give it a thumbs-up as a good step forward.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Walkman on October 22, 2013, 12:36:07 AM
Even if the new policy doesn't go as far as some would like, I'm still going to give it a thumbs-up as a good step forward.

To What End?

lordmonar

Quote from: tkelley004 on October 21, 2013, 11:53:47 PM
But remember a CAP CMSgt is out ranked by a 21 year old kid High School grad with a private pilot license who just completed level 1 and been in CAP less than 3 months. Be sure to render that salute...

Silly to have an NCO corps where the entry as an "officer" is so low. The current CMSGTAF must not have hated the idea as much as the last one did, heard when I was on active duty that was what prevented anything moving forward before now. I love the idea, but with a major rework of of how you become a CAP officer, but that did not happen.

Can't wait to take a look at this.. maybe I'll turn in my sliver oak leaves for SMSgt stripes and then become a chief! No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)
How is that any different then a real CMSgt being outranked by some 22 year old kid with a BA is Left Handed Basket Weaving, and only six months in the service?
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

lordmonar

Quote from: NCRblues on October 22, 2013, 12:33:11 AM
Quote from: tkelley004 on October 21, 2013, 11:53:47 PM
No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)

Issue #1
It's one of the reasons why I traded in my Oak Leaves for my MSgt Stripes.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

lordmonar

Quote from: usafaux2004 on October 22, 2013, 12:53:50 AM
Quote from: Walkman on October 22, 2013, 12:36:07 AM
Even if the new policy doesn't go as far as some would like, I'm still going to give it a thumbs-up as a good step forward.

To What End?
Not knowing what this program is....but maybe it is step one of transforming all the ranks...i.e. make it easier to just be an enlisted puke for the rank and file....and make it harder to be an officer.

It a step in the right direction for those who want to stay enlisted....but would also like to progress...being a SSgt forever is a little boring.  :)
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Eclipse

Quote from: lordmonar on October 22, 2013, 12:55:46 AMHow is that any different then a real CMSgt being outranked by some 22 year old kid with a BA is Left Handed Basket Weaving, and only six months in the service?

At least in that case both parties have had some military training, and they have a defined lane of authority, purpose and function, not to mention
both have legal weight of authority and responsibility.


"That Others May Zoom"

ProdigalJim

Quote from: NCRblues on October 22, 2013, 12:33:11 AM
Quote from: tkelley004 on October 21, 2013, 11:53:47 PM
No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)

Issue #1

Indeed.

I can see a really strong role for the new NCOs in the cadet program. In Operations, however, I'm not so sure. We don't have a large force of enlisted to lead, guide and mentor (which seems to me to be one of the major strengths NCOs bring to the table).

A search of my previous posts finds that I am one of those who believes that an overhaul of our officer qualifications is long overdue. But I'm not a fan of the cliquish-ness that could result from rolling out the NCO program without the concurrent officer progression overhaul.

Jim Mathews, Maj., CAP
Commander, VAWG Group 3
My Mitchell Has Four Digits...

Eclipse

Quote from: lordmonar on October 22, 2013, 12:56:57 AM
Quote from: NCRblues on October 22, 2013, 12:33:11 AM
Quote from: tkelley004 on October 21, 2013, 11:53:47 PM
No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)

Issue #1
It's one of the reasons why I traded in my Oak Leaves for my MSgt Stripes.

That statement beautifully encapsulates why the NCO / Officer paradigm will never function in an all-volunteer
organization.

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

Quote from: Eclipse on October 22, 2013, 01:03:37 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on October 22, 2013, 12:56:57 AM
Quote from: NCRblues on October 22, 2013, 12:33:11 AM
Quote from: tkelley004 on October 21, 2013, 11:53:47 PM
No more command assignments "Sorry I'm an NCO" :)

Issue #1
It's one of the reasons why I traded in my Oak Leaves for my MSgt Stripes.

That statement beautifully encapsulates why the NCO / Officer paradigm will never function in an all-volunteer
organization.
Why?  I perfectly encapsulates a volunteer organization..."Want to help and be there....but I don't want to be in charge."  "Here you go Sarge.....have fun."  "I'm really motivated and want to be in charge....oh and here are my credentials"....."thanks for Joining LT".

It won't function so long as you force each and every individual into your little mold of what we should be.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Shuman 14

I wonder if this would then open up CAP members to attend the USAF NCO Academy for courses like the Airman Leadership School and such similar to CAP officers being able to attend USAF professional development courses.
Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 - 1998, 2000 - 2003, 2005 - Present     CAP: 2013 - 2014, 2021 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000      Active Army: 2003 - 2005                                       USCGAux: 2004 - Present

Eclipse

#19
Quote from: lordmonar on October 22, 2013, 01:07:25 AM
Why?  I perfectly encapsulates a volunteer organization..."Want to help and be there....but I don't want to be in charge."  "Here you go Sarge.....have fun."  "I'm really motivated and want to be in charge....oh and here are my credentials"....."thanks for Joining LT".

It won't function so long as you force each and every individual into your little mold of what we should be.

No, your meaningless grade doesn't absolve you of responsibilities or give you the expectation that
I'll carry more weight because of my meaningless grade.

That's what's apparently lost here.  You can't have it both ways "Grade is meaningless, except when
I want to be absolved of some responsibility."

You, as an individual, can do whatever you please.  But to take the leap that not being a CAP Officer
some how absolves you of the same staff duties and potential command that everyone else has
means you really don't get it.

If you really want that bright line, and I promise you don't, then there needs to be actual advantage
and privilege to being a CAP officer to go along with the increased scope of responsibility and authority.

If you think things are bad now, wait until you have untrained officers with no fundamental understanding
of the NCO paradigm ordering you to do the heavy lifting while they go for coffee.

'Cause that's what's at the end of this line.

"That Others May Zoom"