Service Cap, Wing Commander Approval

[lordmonar]

I was always taught to listen to other's opinions before a decision was made.

The suggestion was to require outside activities.  I point out that would not be practical.

I already provided a suggestion to help with rank stagnation.....since neither you nor I are the decision makers....it is kind of moot anyway.

YOUR reply was that there was a difference between "not being practical and not having the desire to do something."

I took that to mean that you reject my concerns about practicality and attacked me for just being lazy....which you did again in this last post.

My unit does do the big things.....but I know that my unit is not a typical unit.....and we struggle to do the big things every year.   But I know that for every unit like mine there are 10 that have half the man power, not nearly the experience in doing this sort of thing, and nowhere need the support that my unit has.   So I am skeptical about mandating big operations outside the unit as a fix for rank stagnation.

[Storm Chaser]

As for the "nothing else to get", it's the opposite event horizon of "chief4lyfe". 2nd Lt is good enough for many, because you're not an NCO, but get the salutes, and are pretty much maxed out on bling.

How about grade, seniority, more leadership responsibilities and challenging opportunities? A cadet that needs a hat as motivation to be promoted, doesn't deserve to be promoted. That's not the purpose of promotions within CAP Cadet Programs. I also believe that if such trivialities are being used as incentive to progress in the program, then there's a failure in leadership within the unit.

Other then grade......seniority?   Most C/Lts don't have anyone senior to them as it is.  More leadership responsibilities.....see the thread about cadet commanders as C/TSgt and even lower......so it is a been there done that situation.....challenging opportunities?  Where?   At the squadron?   NCSAs are mostly only on during the summers...most CACs are non existent or are just a few boring meetings.

One of several problems with the program IMHO.

I would suggest a simple fix for it........and have before.......require Mitchell before you can be on encampment staff or go to NCSAs.

That may be true in many squadrons, but that's not CAP Cadet Programs as a whole. Even if it was, a service cap as "incentive" to progress to Phase IV is far from a solution.

[Elioron]

I was always taught to listen to other's opinions before a decision was made.

The suggestion was to require outside activities.  I point out that would not be practical.

I already provided a suggestion to help with rank stagnation.....since neither you nor I are the decision makers....it is kind of moot anyway.

YOUR reply was that there was a difference between "not being practical and not having the desire to do something."

I took that to mean that you reject my concerns about practicality and attacked me for just being lazy....which you did again in this last post.

My unit does do the big things.....but I know that my unit is not a typical unit.....and we struggle to do the big things every year.   But I know that for every unit like mine there are 10 that have half the man power, not nearly the experience in doing this sort of thing, and nowhere need the support that my unit has.   So I am skeptical about mandating big operations outside the unit as a fix for rank stagnation.

Let me try to be very clear about my position.  We are a volunteer organization.  As such we can't really require much of anything from our senior members.  Senior members have, almost without exception, a lot going on outside of CAP.  Being unwilling to volunteer an amount of time or effort is not equivalent to laziness.  I suggested that if you don't have people willing to drive, try to find people that are.  Nothing to do with laziness.

I haven't suggesting requiring anything from anyone.  I suggested that if you don't have something, either find it or create it.  If you can't do something yourself, find people who can.  Squadrons are not independent agencies - we are all a part of a larger whole with larger resources.  A lot of things are possible if you're willing to look outside and have people willing to do the work.  If you don't have willing seniors, cadets, even if they are motivated, will get frustrated.

This is coming from a squadron that overcame the very issue of stagnation.  We had a lot of cadets that didn't see the point of promoting.  They never participated in outside activities and saw no value in Wing events since they felt out of place.  For a long time, there was no senior support even if they did want to do something.  With a change in our leadership we tried to change the cadet culture.  We encouraged more outside participation and opened up our annual air show to the Wing.  Within a year, our squadron of 20 cadets had an Earhart, an Eaker, and two Mitchell's.  We had cadets staffing several Wing activities and even at other Wings' encampments.

Changing the mindset is possible, but it takes senior involvement to enable it.  It can take a lot of work.  Recognizing if the issue is with the cadets or with lack of senior support (or both) is an important part of fighting stagnation.  If you (or your seniors) equate unwillingness for laziness it's going to cause problems in your senior program.  Seniors are willing to give what they're willing to give.  You can often inspire more, but everyone has limitations.  If you need what you don't have, the only way to get it is to find it elsewhere.

[lordmonar]

As for the "nothing else to get", it's the opposite event horizon of "chief4lyfe". 2nd Lt is good enough for many, because you're not an NCO, but get the salutes, and are pretty much maxed out on bling.

How about grade, seniority, more leadership responsibilities and challenging opportunities? A cadet that needs a hat as motivation to be promoted, doesn't deserve to be promoted. That's not the purpose of promotions within CAP Cadet Programs. I also believe that if such trivialities are being used as incentive to progress in the program, then there's a failure in leadership within the unit.

Other then grade......seniority?   Most C/Lts don't have anyone senior to them as it is.  More leadership responsibilities.....see the thread about cadet commanders as C/TSgt and even lower......so it is a been there done that situation.....challenging opportunities?  Where?   At the squadron?   NCSAs are mostly only on during the summers...most CACs are non existent or are just a few boring meetings.

One of several problems with the program IMHO.

I would suggest a simple fix for it........and have before.......require Mitchell before you can be on encampment staff or go to NCSAs.

That may be true in many squadrons, but that's not CAP Cadet Programs as a whole. Even if it was, a service cap as "incentive" to progress to Phase IV is far from a solution.

No....I did not suggest that the hat was in anyway shape or form a solution.
I was suggesting that we restrict the "fun" activities to Cadet Officers as an incentive for cadets to move beyond C/CMSgt.....and that's it.

[Pulsar]

 :clap: :clap:
What about the female service cap? Does it still exist for cadets? I've only ever seen female SMs wear them. 

[Private Investigator]

Let me try to be very clear about my position.  We are a volunteer organization.  As such we can't really require much of anything from our senior members.  Senior members have, almost without exception, a lot going on outside of CAP.  Being unwilling to volunteer an amount of time or effort is not equivalent to laziness.  I suggested that if you don't have people willing to drive, try to find people that are.  Nothing to do with laziness.

I have to disagree. For some of our 'senior' Senior Members, CAP is their big event of the week. From a 'young' Senior Member perspective you have a day job, young family, etc, etc. Some grandparents do not see children or grandchildren until the holidays. Seeing a movie matinee is a big deal. Captain Philipps last week, Gravity this week, next week? Walmart shopping, I hope they have Fiber Choice orange flavor.

Bottom line recruit more seniors. 

[Panache]

Walmart shopping, I hope they have Fiber Choice orange flavor.

We should start a movement!

(/rimshot)

[Nearly Dark Side]

:clap: :clap:
What about the female service cap? Does it still exist for cadets? I've only ever seen female SMs wear them.

Yes Pulsar it does. It has the same restrictions as the male service cap. It is on or around page 19 of CAPM 39-1.

[AlphaSigOU]

:clap: :clap:
What about the female service cap? Does it still exist for cadets? I've only ever seen female SMs wear them.

Still exists... though AFI 36-2903 now allows females to wear the male service cap. (I know... it's not in the current CAPM 39-1!)

[Pulsar]

:clap: :clap:
What about the female service cap? Does it still exist for cadets? I've only ever seen female SMs wear them.

Still exists... though AFI 36-2903 now allows females to wear the male service cap. (I know... it's not in the current CAPM 39-1!)

wow...that's kind of... weird.  Interesting

[a2capt]

We should start a movement!

Walk right in it's around the back
Just a half a mile from the railroad track
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant

[AlphaSigOU]

:clap: :clap:
What about the female service cap? Does it still exist for cadets? I've only ever seen female SMs wear them.

Still exists... though AFI 36-2903 now allows females to wear the male service cap. (I know... it's not in the current CAPM 39-1!)

wow...that's kind of... weird.  Interesting

Lt Gen Johnson, U.S. Air Force Academy superintendent.

[Elioron]

We should start a movement!

Walk right in it's around the back
Just a half a mile from the railroad track
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant

Curse you!!  I know I'll have that popping up in my head for the next week!