Uniform questions

[R Nolen]

I have three uniform questions that are not addressed, or addressed incompletely in 39-1.  First, the blazer uniform:  Is it required to have either CAP or USAF buttons, and if so what size (ligne measurement)?
2.  39-1 shows the embroidered rank and CAP letters on the epaulets of the BDU Field Jacket, but no dimensions are given.  Is the rank 1/2" above the shoulder seam and the CAP letters 1" above the rank, or are the letters kind of eyeball centered on the epaulet?
3.  I would like to get the views of the wing commanders that monitor this site on this question, and if, as I have been told, the National Commander checks this board, I would request your views, sir.  Since chaplains are properly addressed as "chaplain" regardless of rank, would it not be permissible, if not advisable, for chaplains to wear the embroidered cross or tablets on the BDU cap rather than their rank?  Thanks in advance to anyone who responds.

[Eclipse]

There is no requirement for the blazer to have USAF or CAP buttons.  What ever it comes with is fine.

Fold the epaulet in half and find the actual center, don't guess.

[Private Investigator]

... Thanks in advance to anyone who responds.

Welcome aboard, have fun.   

[BFreemanMA]

Welcome to CAP! The first two questions appear to have been answered, so I think I can discuss the third one for you. Our unit gained a chaplain around a year ago. My understanding is that, at least on BDUs, the grade insignia is the same for the collars and cap. The chaplain is authorized to wear the emblem of their faith above their name tape (I believe it's their name tape. Going from memory, so might be branch tape).

I joined a little under a year ago myself; all the regs are certainly very confusing, but keep asking your squadron mates for help and you'll soon be the point person to whom all the other recruits go to for 39-1 advice!

[Brad]

Re-read CAPM 39-1, it mentions this in Chapter 6 section B with regards to the Chaplain insignia on the BDU uniform:

Specialty Insignia (Chaplain, Legal, Medical, EMT,Ground Team)

embroidered in white cotton thread

centered 1/2-inch above the cloth "Civil Air Patrol" tape worn over the left breast pocket of BDU, field uniform and BDU or dark blue field jacket, 1/2 inch below aviation badge. EXCEPTION: chaplain insignia is worn 1/2 inch above the aviation badge.

Table 6-4. Wear of Badges, Patches, and Devices on Flight Suits, BDUs, Utility Uniforms and Field Uniforms.

The rule with CAPM 39-1 is if it's not in there, in an ICL, or in a Wing supplement, you can't do it. Besides, even the Chief, CAP Chaplain Corps and on down is referred to as "Ch. <CAP rank> <name>", so the rank does figure in there. I've heard them called Chaplain, Padre, or by rank.

[R Nolen]

Fold the epaulet in half and find the actual center, don't guess.


That was my question.  Is the CAP centered on the epaulet or measured a certain distance above either the shoulder seam or the rank insignia?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Chaplain-

This question was covered in CAPM 39-1.

Go to figure 6-3 on page 100. The figure shows how far the grade insignia is placed from the shoulder seam, but there is no corresponding measurement for the CAP cutouts. I would place these about 1/3 between the button and the shoulder seam.

Flyer

[Storm Chaser]

I always get strange looks when wearing my field jacket as I have the embroidered CAP cutout above the grade insignia as required by CAPM 39-1. Everyone else seems to put the grade insignias only on their epaulets.

That said, I do have to admit that the CAP cutout look odd, even if required. I believe they may be a carryover from the times when CAP cutout were worn on one of the collars, while the grade insignia was worn on the other. Naturally, since the field jacket had two grade insignias (one on each epaulet), someone decided to put CAP above it.

I hope they get rid of them in the next revision of CAPM 39-1. In the mean time, I will continue to wear my uniform properly even if everyone else seems to not care.

[PHall]

I always get strange looks when wearing my field jacket as I have the embroidered CAP cutoff above the grade insignia as required by CAPM 39-1. Everyone else seems to put the grade insignias only on their epaulets.

That said, I do have to admit that the CAP cutoff look odd, even if required. I believe they may be a carryover from the times when CAP cutoff were worn on one of the collars, while the grade insignia was worn on the other. Naturally, since the field jacket had two grade insignias (one on each epaulet), someone decided to put CAP above it.

I hope they get rid of them in the next revision of CAPM 39-1. In the mean time, I will continue to wear my uniform properly even if everyone else seems to not care.

The word you were looking for is CUTOUT, not cutoff. 

[Storm Chaser]

Thanks!

[Eclipse]

I used to use a grade sleeve to align the cutouts, then I would swear somewhere in the ICL / reg world there was verbiage about the cutout being
at the mid-point of the epaulet, but I can't find it now.

The figure in 39-1 shows them much higher up and closer to the button then either mid-point or like a sleeve.

Something else to clarify.

[Garibaldi]

I always get strange looks when wearing my field jacket as I have the embroidered CAP cutoff above the grade insignia as required by CAPM 39-1. Everyone else seems to put the grade insignias only on their epaulets.

That said, I do have to admit that the CAP cutoff look odd, even if required. I believe they may be a carryover from the times when CAP cutoff were worn on one of the collars, while the grade insignia was worn on the other. Naturally, since the field jacket had two grade insignias (one on each epaulet), someone decided to put CAP above it.

I hope they get rid of them in the next revision of CAPM 39-1. In the mean time, I will continue to wear my uniform properly even if everyone else seems to not care.

The word you were looking for is CUTOUT, not cutoff. 

CAP cutoffs...now that's a fashion nightmare!

[Storm Chaser]

CAP cutoffs...now that's a fashion nightmare!

Tell me about it!

I always go back to my post and review it to make sure I don't have any major spelling or grammar errors, but my friend here beat me to the punch. 

[Storm Chaser]

I used to use a grade sleeve to align the cutouts, then I would swear somewhere in the ICL / reg world there was verbiage about the cutout being
at the mid-point of the epaulet, but I can't find it now.

The figure in 39-1 shows them much higher up and closer to the button then either mid-point or like a sleeve.

Something else to clarify.

When I got mine sewn, I used the picture/drawing as a "template" as I couldn't find specific instructions on the actual position of these. It definitely needs to be clarified, or better yet, removed all together.

[Private Investigator]

I always get strange looks when wearing my field jacket as I have the embroidered CAP cutout above the grade insignia as required by CAPM 39-1. Everyone else seems to put the grade insignias only on their epaulets.

Good eye. I had an olive drab field jacket that never had the "CAP" on the epaulets and when we changed to the woodland BDU, I just copied the same layout.   

[Майор Хаткевич]

So many people get it wrong...

WIWAC, most SMs in my area had it right, but since the cadet pictures did not show the cutout, most cadet officers did not.

When. I was close to my Mitchell, I cracked the uniform manual, and READ the text, not just stared at the pictures. It clearly stated that Officers (defined as SM and Cadet by 39-1) wear the cutouts. Its much better these days, but I still see high ranking cadets do it wrong. (Or...not wear ANY grade, because "we promote too fast" ).

That said, I always thought the reason behind cutout and grade is because its as if we have a grade slide on there.

[Hawk200]

I used to use a grade sleeve to align the cutouts, then I would swear somewhere in the ICL / reg world there was verbiage about the cutout being
at the mid-point of the epaulet, but I can't find it now.

The figure in 39-1 shows them much higher up and closer to the button then either mid-point or like a sleeve.

Something else to clarify.

When I got mine sewn, I used the picture/drawing as a "template" as I couldn't find specific instructions on the actual position of these. It definitely needs to be clarified, or better yet, removed all together.

I vote for removed. The cutouts serve little purpose nowadays.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Some people that saw me with lieutenant bars and the CAP cutouts, called me Captain. It confused ignorant people. Sometimes I stopped to educate them. Most of the time I did not bother...



Now I wear railroad tracks, so hopefully those that call me Captain do so because they recognize the grade...



Flyer

[PHall]

Some people that saw me with lieutenant bars and the CAP cutouts, called me Captain. It confused ignorant people. Sometimes I stopped to educate them. Most of the time I did not bother...



Now I wear railroad tracks, so hopefully those that call me Captain do so because they recognize the grade...



Flyer

No, they'll call you Commander. Becase that's what 3 bars is, right?

[Hawk200]

Some people that saw me with lieutenant bars and the CAP cutouts, called me Captain. It confused ignorant people. Sometimes I stopped to educate them. Most of the time I did not bother...



Now I wear railroad tracks, so hopefully those that call me Captain do so because they recognize the grade...



Flyer

I have had the same happen. Did pretty much the same thing.

[GOCAP]

a cadet at encampment called me a sir!!!!

[SarDragon]

Well, unless you're female, what's wrong with that?