First Aid requirements

[Storm Chaser]

@RTFB

Why would a wing ES officer need to be familiar with healthcare certifications that don't meet the standards or requirements for CAP qualifications? CAP is not a healthcare provider and while some certifications may be useful to the members, they have no bearing in CAP.

[Luis R. Ramos]

RTFB-

The examples you gave are not the most widely recognized out of the healthcare world!



You have to be a) a nurse employed in a cardiac life support; b) a Paramedic providing entubation and medications; c) employed in a neo-nate pediatric support.



Most people will never hear or know about these special classes which deal with medications, electrocardiograms, and invasive medical procedures such as intubating a patient, and using oxygen.

None of these procedures are allowed in CAP by our regulations!

Flyer

[HGjunkie]

I just checked OPSQuals today and found my GTM3 was approved! So, yes, AHA First Aid does qualify.

[SARDOC]

I am an ACLS/PALS/PHTLS Instructor and have been for quite some time.   The issue that I think RTFB is trying to imply is that ultimately any "certifying" agency is saying is that you've met the basic minimum standard at that time.  I've seen "EXPIRED" replaced with "RECOMMENDED RENEWAL DATE".  As far as the certifying agencies care, even if you are issued the card with their name on it and the ink isn't even dry yet, you still can't practice under that training agency, you still provide the level of care that your agency allows.

For Example, I'm a State Certified Emergency Medical Technician - Paramedic, although I have the nifty whiz bang card that says I can do all of these cool Advanced Life Support Techniques (My Favorite is the IO Drill) However, I can't do any of these things unless my agency says that I can. (READ:CAP)  However, the opposite is also true....If My PALS certification expires...my agency doesn't give a darn, as long as my Paramedic is current, MY CPR, ACLS, PALS can all be expired, I'm still legal to practice to my level.  It's my agency that will have to explain in my malpractice suit why I haven't maintained these commonly accepted standards.

Ultimately, it's the agency's decision what level you can practice.  While I'm sure Florida Wing is well intentioned in requiring a current card, I'm betting there is no Florida State Specific requirement (Law, Administrative Code, etc.) that says an individual can't provide First Aid without a Valid unexpired First Aid Card...I think ultimately there just happy that someone saved the life.

That being said, Civil Air Patrol is another matter, if your Wing says you have to be first aid current to go on missions... that's it. The same situation with the Safety Currency.  If the Rules say it for Florida Wing that's on them.

[Luis R. Ramos]

It would not surprise me if Florida State law does say something to that effect, and any such requirement was not made up the FL Wing.

New York State laws state regarding summer camps:

NY Public Health Law, Sect. 225, [/b]Subsects. 2.2 M states that First Aid shall be valid as specified by provider but shall not exceed three years... 2.2 N states that CPR shall be valid as specified by provider but shall not exceed one year...

Elsewhere the law states the camp director of health care should be certified in both, that in overnight camps, someone must remain overnight as well certified in CPR although aquatic staff certified in CPR can be counted.

I was looking the law regarding CPR certification but I am a little bit out of time. I am sure it does state similar regarding EMTs/Paramedics...

Edited to add: CPR certification is governed by a policy letter adopted by the Bureau of EMS. Bureau of Emergency Services Policy Statement 11-07 states that before being admitted to testing, all EMT and CFR students must pass a test following the 2010 Guidelines on CPR and ECC on CPR to include obstructed airways on adults and infants. Although this policy statement does not say anything about an expiration date, it states to reason that to be admitted to re-certification testing you have to be current as well.

These guidelines basically requires retraining every two years... Read http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/122/18_suppl_3/S920.full

Flyer

[tsrup]

^^Here in South Dakota it is a requirement to send in a copy of a valid and current BLS for Healthcare Provider (CPR/AED, obstructed airway, BVM) when renewing your EMS certifications every two years.

The hours used for the BLS refresher are also not counted toward our continuing education requirements either (which is the norm I believe).



Additionally, at the hospital I work for, if your CPR ticket expires, you go on suspension without pay until it is renewed.  No ifs, ands, or buts, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.

[SARDOC]

It would not surprise me if Florida State law does say something to that effect, and any such requirement was not made up the FL Wing.

New York State laws state regarding summer camps:

NY Public Health Law, Sect. 225, [/b]Subsects. 2.2 M states that First Aid shall be valid as specified by provider but shall not exceed three years... 2.2 N states that CPR shall be valid as specified by provider but shall not exceed one year...

Elsewhere the law states the camp director of health care should be certified in both, that in overnight camps, someone must remain overnight as well certified in CPR although aquatic staff certified in CPR can be counted.

I was looking the law regarding CPR certification but I am a little bit out of time. I am sure it does state similar regarding EMTs/Paramedics...

Edited to add: CPR certification is governed by a policy letter adopted by the Bureau of EMS. Bureau of Emergency Services Policy Statement 11-07 states that before being admitted to testing, all EMT and CFR students must pass a test following the 2010 Guidelines on CPR and ECC on CPR to include obstructed airways on adults and infants. Although this policy statement does not say anything about an expiration date, it states to reason that to be admitted to re-certification testing you have to be current as well.

These guidelines basically requires retraining every two years... Read http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/122/18_suppl_3/S920.full

Flyer

This code looks to apply to the certification itself.  I'm sure there are Codes that apply to certain occupations as well.  Keeping in mind that Civil Air Patrol is a Volunteer Organization thus not an occupation.  Keep in mind that we are not a first responder organization with a duty to respond like public safety agencies either.   Meaning that we should fall under the State's Good Samaritan law. 

As far as the CPR certification currency.  It is an educational requirement for renewal for any EMT level certifications, but it only needs to be valid at the time of renewal for the state to issue a new card.  My state paramedic is valid for three years and my CPR for only two...Meaning in theory I can go a whole year without being CPR certified while still practicing.  I personally didn't do that because I was a CPR instructor as well.  I know in my state we don't have a requirement to maintain CPR Certification as a condition of certification.  My employer typically refused payment for overtime or time away from primary duties for training that wasn't meetings for basic minimums...so this resulted in many Labor/Management/Attorney "Discussions".

^^Here in South Dakota it is a requirement to send in a copy of a valid and current BLS for Healthcare Provider (CPR/AED, obstructed airway, BVM) when renewing your EMS certifications every two years.

The hours used for the BLS refresher are also not counted toward our continuing education requirements either (which is the norm I believe).



Additionally, at the hospital I work for, if your CPR ticket expires, you go on suspension without pay until it is renewed.  No ifs, ands, or buts, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.

It looks as though that's an employer requirement which goes to my earlier point about Civil Air Patrol does not delineate such requirements.  If the Florida Wing does than they should publish in in an OI. 

[Eclipse]

It looks as though that's an employer requirement which goes to my earlier point about Civil Air Patrol does not delineate such requirements.  If the Florida Wing does than they should publish in in an OI.

Please stop trying to assert this is a Florida wing policy.  It is the national expectation.

First Aid expires, you're supposed to renew.

[SARDOC]

It looks as though that's an employer requirement which goes to my earlier point about Civil Air Patrol does not delineate such requirements.  If the Florida Wing does than they should publish in in an OI.

Please stop trying to assert this is a Florida wing policy.  It is the national expectation.

First Aid expires, you're supposed to renew.

If that is the expectation than the Regulation should be written better to reflect that.  I would whole heartedly support because it's a good idea.  However, that is not what the Regulation says.  Read this:

Most formal courses do not have to be re-accomplished though some are recommended like first aid training.

So that may be the way you want it your corner of the world...But the Expectations are NOT required.  Read the Reg.

Civil Air Patrol would actually be better at not requiring First Aid at all since they explicitly state that any care is done at the member's risk and not covered by malpractice...because requiring the training implies the requirement to provide care in the event an emergency arises putting the member at jeopardy. 

[Ed Bos]

It looks as though that's an employer requirement which goes to my earlier point about Civil Air Patrol does not delineate such requirements.  If the Florida Wing does than they should publish in in an OI.

Please stop trying to assert this is a Florida wing policy.  It is the national expectation.

First Aid expires, you're supposed to renew.

That may be a recommended best practice. Renewing First Aid/CPR is not a national expectation. It is not required in the CAPR 60-3, the Ground Team curriculum, nor the Ground Team Reference Text.

What makes you think this is otherwise the case?

Civil Air Patrol would actually be better at not requiring First Aid at all since they explicitly state that any care is done at the member's risk and not covered by malpractice...because requiring the training implies the requirement to provide care in the event an emergency arises putting the member at jeopardy. 

The First Aid requirement is to ensure that ground teams have a basic understanding of first aid for themselves and potentially their targets, but it's not required to be renewed because we're not a agency that's in the business of routinely rendering first aid.

I believe that it's smart to require exposure to first aid & CPR training, and it's even smarter to keep it current, but that it's smartest to activate EMS when someone needs it. I don't think the current requirement invalidates my view, the way it's written.

[Eclipse]

That may be a recommended best practice. Renewing First Aid/CPR is not a national expectation. It is not required in the CAPR 60-3, the Ground Team curriculum, nor the Ground Team Reference Text.

What makes you think this is otherwise the case?

The >ONLY< acceptable training has expiration dates right on the completion card.  Ergo.

[Ed Bos]

The >ONLY< acceptable training has expiration dates right on the completion card.  Ergo.

That's true. For example the my Red Cross First Aid/CPR card will expire in 2 years.
But I've spent the past 5 years as a GTM1, GTL, UDF, GBD with no current first aid certification. The expiration date on the card has no bearing on the CAP qualification because the training requirement is that you have had the training in the past.

Another example of this would be when the Planning Section Chief SQTR prequires (is that a word?) that you have had both ground SAR and aircrew training, but that they not necessarily be current when you get signed off. That qualification had an expiration date right on the completion card, but the requirement is that you have had the training previously, not that it be current.

[Eclipse]

^ Not the same thing.   The text is explicit that you do >not< need to be qualified at the time to be a branch director.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Sir-

With due respect your post is moot.

GTM1 does not require First Aid currency.

GTL does not require First Aid currency.

UDF does not require First Aid currency.

GBD does not require First Aid currency.

The only qualification requiring a valid First Aid card, and thus training, is GTM3!

But again the agencies teaching the class states the training expires just because new practices are deemed better and they want you to be aware of said practices.

Flyer

[Ed Bos]

^ Not the same thing.   The text is explicit that you do >not< need to be qualified at the time to be a branch director.

Similar, but not the same, you are correct. However, if you refer to the Knowledgebase, the intent of the requirement, "is for personnel to meet and document completion of some basic standard."

As a matter of fact, you don't even need to receive a card "with an expiration date" from any particular agency to meet the SQTR requirement. If you're curious, I know because as a Wing DOS I provided first aid training to meet the SQTR requirement, that covered all the topics listed in the relevant guidance including knowledge and hands-on testing, and signed off CAP personnel. Before I did so, I checked with leadership and got the relevant guidance from the OPR, and they affirmed by ability to complete the requirement in this way.

At the time, I held an appropriate position outside of CAP that would make me a qualified trainer, but I did not conduct the training under the auspices of any agency, and provided no certification other than signing off my students' SQTR.  I documented completion of the standard with a Participation Letter, and called it a day.

As a point of clarification, CAP Ground Team members would be considered "bystanders" according to http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/24000/24700/24757/ngfatos.pdf, but internally we use this and OSHA guidance to determine what sort of first aid training meets the GTM3 requirement.

[Ed Bos]

Sir-

With due respect your post is moot.

GTM1 does not require First Aid currency.

GTL does not require First Aid currency.

UDF does not require First Aid currency.

GBD does not require First Aid currency.

The only qualification requiring a valid First Aid card, and thus training, is GTM3!

But again the agencies teaching the class states the training expires just because new practices are deemed better and they want you to be aware of said practices.

Flyer

That's all true. With the exception of UDF, the requirements above all predicated on GTM3, and renewing GTL and the higher GTM qualifications renew GTM3. That was my point.

[Eclipse]

At the time, I held an appropriate position outside of CAP that would make me a qualified trainer, but I did not conduct the training under the auspices of any agency, and provided no certification other than signing off my students' SQTR.  I documented completion of the standard with a Participation Letter, and called it a day.

You can't provide training under the auspices of another organization without providing the full materials and recording the training with them.  That the point of
having an outside body do it.  I'd be willing to bet you violated your trainer agreement, which means they weren't certified.  In effect, you personally trained then with no backing organization.

As a point of clarification, CAP Ground Team members would be considered "bystanders" according to http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/24000/24700/24757/ngfatos.pdf, but internally we use this and OSHA guidance to determine what sort of first aid training meets the GTM3 requirement.

I'm not sure how that's relevent to this conversation.

[SARDOC]

At the time, I held an appropriate position outside of CAP that would make me a qualified trainer, but I did not conduct the training under the auspices of any agency, and provided no certification other than signing off my students' SQTR.  I documented completion of the standard with a Participation Letter, and called it a day.

You can't provide training under the auspices of another organization without providing the full materials and recording the training with them.  That the point of
having an outside body do it.  I'd be willing to bet you violated your trainer agreement, which means they weren't certified.  In effect, you personally trained then with no backing organization.

I would agree with Eclipse here, CAP requires that the course meet the NGFATOS standards, if you aren't providing one of the approved syllabus programs, you're not meeting CAP standards.

I still maintain however, that CAP does not require that you need to maintain that First Aid certification to maintain any GTM rating.  Once you've completed the required course, it's recommended that you renew periodically, but not required.

[Eclipse]

I'll at least concede to the fact that, while it's a common-sense inference, it certainly isn't explicitly written in the relevent text and curriculum.

[a2capt]

Successful Completion
Successful completion of a training program in first aid for non-dutied laypersons indicates completion of a course which follows generally recognized medical treatments that are safe, indicated, and helpful. A successful completion card or certificate should be issued when a qualified instructor:
• Respects the course curriculum and lesson format.
• Identifies each student's understanding of the cognitive, affective, and psychomotor objectives of these guidelines.
• Observes each student's comfort with, and reasonable performance of, essential psychomotor skills.
• Uses an appropriate evaluation tool to document the student's successful performance.


What defines a qualified instructor?