CAP iOS and Android app

[ARandomCadet]

Who else here agrees they need to make an iOS and Android app for CAP. I know there is one out there (CAPCadet) but it isn't an official CAP app. Several other cadets in my squadron, agree that they need to make an official app with eServices built in, and a mobile version of testing because we all hate having to zoom in while taking a test on a mobile device. I can eService to my home screen, but I don't think that is enough. They need to have guides, regulations, and general info along with eServices built into an app. Also anybody have any other suggestions they need to add?

[SarDragon]

Ooh, ooh, an opportunity for my favorite Q: "Who's going to pay for it?" I doubt the programming involved is a trivial task.

[ARandomCadet]

Ooh, ooh, an opportunity for my favorite Q: "Who's going to pay for it?" I doubt the programming involved is a trivial task.

I know that the most expensive part is getting a Mac or 2, because all that XCode (iOS programming software) runs on is on OSx which is the Mac operating system. That is a couple grand per computer so overall, the actual programming costs for the first year are at least $4,104. After you buy the computers, it only costs $104 for the software and access. They can have a couple IT people from NHQ do it easily.

[Spaceman3750]

Ooh, ooh, an opportunity for my favorite Q: "Who's going to pay for it?" I doubt the programming involved is a trivial task.

I know that the most expensive part is getting a Mac or 2, because all that XCode (iOS programming software) runs on is on OSx which is the Mac operating system. That is a couple grand per computer so overall, the actual programming costs for the first year are at least $4,104. After you buy the computers, it only costs $104 for the software and access. They can have a couple IT people from NHQ do it easily.

Because all IT people know objective C, or Java (in Android's case), and how to use it on the given platform.

You can pick up a Mac Mini for $700, but this is something that would probably have to be contracted out. And whoever did the ops qual entry UI design isn't allowed to play.

[JoeTomasone]

And if they decide to contract it out, there's got to be some red tape concerning non-FBI approved contractors with unfettered access to info about Cadets (well, everyone, but especially Cadets). 

That being said, the few times I've needed to access anything on eServices or the Members site on my phone and iPad wouldn't justify an app.   <shrug>

[Spaceman3750]

How about just making eServices and WMIRS smartphone friendly? That would go a long way for me...

[ARandomCadet]

Ooh, ooh, an opportunity for my favorite Q: "Who's going to pay for it?" I doubt the programming involved is a trivial task.

I know that the most expensive part is getting a Mac or 2, because all that XCode (iOS programming software) runs on is on OSx which is the Mac operating system. That is a couple grand per computer so overall, the actual programming costs for the first year are at least $4,104. After you buy the computers, it only costs $104 for the software and access. They can have a couple IT people from NHQ do it easily.

Because all IT people know objective C, or Java (in Android's case), and how to use it on the given platform.

You can pick up a Mac Mini for $700, but this is something that would probably have to be contracted out. And whoever did the ops qual entry UI design isn't allowed to play.

You can get a Mac Mini for $700 but you also have to get a Thunderbolt Display for it. The Thunderbolt Display costs over 1k

How about just making eServices and WMIRS smartphone friendly? That would go a long way for me...

It already has a mobile version, but an app is way more smartphone friendly.

[SarDragon]

Ooh, ooh, an opportunity for my favorite Q: "Who's going to pay for it?" I doubt the programming involved is a trivial task.

I know that the most expensive part is getting a Mac or 2, because all that XCode (iOS programming software) runs on is on OSx which is the Mac operating system. That is a couple grand per computer so overall, the actual programming costs for the first year are at least $4,104. After you buy the computers, it only costs $104 for the software and access. They can have a couple IT people from NHQ do it easily.

Did you read and understand my question? I didn't ask how much it would cost. I asked, "Who's going to pay for it?"

[ARandomCadet]

Ooh, ooh, an opportunity for my favorite Q: "Who's going to pay for it?" I doubt the programming involved is a trivial task.

I know that the most expensive part is getting a Mac or 2, because all that XCode (iOS programming software) runs on is on OSx which is the Mac operating system. That is a couple grand per computer so overall, the actual programming costs for the first year are at least $4,104. After you buy the computers, it only costs $104 for the software and access. They can have a couple IT people from NHQ do it easily.

Did you read and understand my question? I didn't ask how much it would cost. I asked, "Who's going to pay for it?"

Tack an extra $1-2 onto membership fees, that pays for it all plus more.

[Spaceman3750]

Ooh, ooh, an opportunity for my favorite Q: "Who's going to pay for it?" I doubt the programming involved is a trivial task.

I know that the most expensive part is getting a Mac or 2, because all that XCode (iOS programming software) runs on is on OSx which is the Mac operating system. That is a couple grand per computer so overall, the actual programming costs for the first year are at least $4,104. After you buy the computers, it only costs $104 for the software and access. They can have a couple IT people from NHQ do it easily.

Because all IT people know objective C, or Java (in Android's case), and how to use it on the given platform.

You can pick up a Mac Mini for $700, but this is something that would probably have to be contracted out. And whoever did the ops qual entry UI design isn't allowed to play.

You can get a Mac Mini for $700 but you also have to get a Thunderbolt Display for it. The Thunderbolt Display costs over 1k

How about just making eServices and WMIRS smartphone friendly? That would go a long way for me...

It already has a mobile version, but an app is way more smartphone friendly.

Except for the two Mac Mini servers that I took care of in my day job, both of which used DisplayPort . And the one we sold a few weeks ago, also with DisplayPort. And the one listed on the specs page...

The eServices homepage has a mobile version but the actual modules are not. As far as WMIRS goes, the only thing that is mobile friendly is air sortie close out. Everything else is the desktop version. If I could open or close a ground sortie, input my mileage/fuel $, and upload a receipt image from my phone's camera, in a mobile friendly web app, I would flip.

Web apps could probably be done with existing resources, and be cross platform capable. Native apps would require a mobile developer and an API developer, at a minimum.

[ARandomCadet]

Ooh, ooh, an opportunity for my favorite Q: "Who's going to pay for it?" I doubt the programming involved is a trivial task.

I know that the most expensive part is getting a Mac or 2, because all that XCode (iOS programming software) runs on is on OSx which is the Mac operating system. That is a couple grand per computer so overall, the actual programming costs for the first year are at least $4,104. After you buy the computers, it only costs $104 for the software and access. They can have a couple IT people from NHQ do it easily.

Because all IT people know objective C, or Java (in Android's case), and how to use it on the given platform.

You can pick up a Mac Mini for $700, but this is something that would probably have to be contracted out. And whoever did the ops qual entry UI design isn't allowed to play.

You can get a Mac Mini for $700 but you also have to get a Thunderbolt Display for it. The Thunderbolt Display costs over 1k

How about just making eServices and WMIRS smartphone friendly? That would go a long way for me...

It already has a mobile version, but an app is way more smartphone friendly.

Except for the two Mac Mini servers that I took care of in my day job, both of which used DisplayPort . And the one we sold a few weeks ago, also with DisplayPort. And the one listed on the specs page...

The eServices homepage has a mobile version but the actual modules are not. As far as WMIRS goes, the only thing that is mobile friendly is air sortie close out. Everything else is the desktop version. If I could open or close a ground sortie, input my mileage/fuel $, and upload a receipt image from my phone's camera, in a mobile friendly web app, I would flip.

Web apps could probably be done with existing resources, and be cross platform capable. Native apps would require a mobile developer and an API developer, at a minimum.

Yeah, I hate how modules, and tests are not mobile friendly. I took my OPSEC and Safety training during school, because they were letting us use our phones since it was the last week of school. But neither of the tests were mobile-friendly. I would prefer an app, that could integrate CAPCadet in it along with regulations, and guides.

[a2capt]

A Mac does not cost "$2K" and that Mac Mini comes with an HDMI to DVI adapter, as well as supports HDMI out of the box, and those monitors can even be had for under $100. Yes. Under $100.

I don't mean this in a mean way at all, but .. if you spent just half of the time working on your leadership materials, and AE modules, you could get to a point where  .. you might understand a bit more of how the organization and the real world work, and how they work together.

Specifically, do some real research before you just spout off "facts".

[Critical AOA]

Tack an extra $1-2 onto membership fees, that pays for it all plus more.

Ahh... a future leader in the democrat party.  Making everybody pay for something regardless if they want it or not. 

[JeffDG]

I don't see that NHQ has the capacity or the funding to build all the apps that would help folks out.

All they need to do is build a secure interface to the data, and let members develop apps that will help them do their jobs effectively.  If there is a need, someone will step in and fill it.  Those that work well will spread and flourish, those that don't will die quiet deaths.

[ARandomCadet]

Tack an extra $1-2 onto membership fees, that pays for it all plus more.

Ahh... a future leader in the democrat party.

Actually that first sentence is true.

A Mac does not cost "$2K" and that Mac Mini comes with an HDMI to DVI adapter, as well as supports HDMI out of the box, and those monitors can even be had for under $100. Yes. Under $100.

I don't mean this in a mean way at all, but .. if you spent just half of the time working on your leadership materials, and AE modules, you could get to a point where  .. you might understand a bit more of how the organization and the real world work, and how they work together.

Specifically, do some real research before you just spout off "facts".

I had to pick a product that I would consider buying for Personal Management in Boy Scouts, so I picked the iMac which is what you should use for app development. The whole iMac unit costs a little over $2k per computer. Also, I am an Apple Developer, so I do know what I am talking about. The Mac Mini is capable of using different displays (I have seen that myself), BUT it is best (learned from experience) to use a Thunderbolt Display.

[SJFedor]

...an official app with eServices built in, and a mobile version of testing because we all hate having to zoom in while taking a test on a mobile device...

You talk like you've had to take a lot of tests on this system... 

[a2capt]

The whole iMac unit costs a little over $2k per computer. Also, I am an Apple Developer, so I do know what I am talking about. The Mac Mini is capable of using different displays (I have seen that myself), BUT it is best (learned from experience) to use a Thunderbolt Display.

Funny, four iMac models currently offered, the list price on the top of the line model, $1,999.00. The entry level, $1,299.00, which is absolutely enough for app development, and other everyday use. I just bought a MBPR for $1,600 which is about on par with that 27" iMac, power wise.

An iMac, the Mac Mini and the MacBooks are pretty much the same thing. Efficient, laptop-like technology, packaged differently. Best to use a Thunderbolt monitor? How so? Best for Apple's quarterly reports. But totally un-necessary.

Apple developer? So.

I've been using Mac's since that day in 1984. That could very well be twice as long as you've been alive. I've been servicing them, for darn near as long, too, and I still say your "facts" are .. not.

Oh, and I love Windows, too! .. It pays the bills. 

[Eclipse]

Maybe get to your second or third stripe before trying to "fix" CAP?

[Jon Moser]

I haven't done much in the way of mobile web or native app development however (and please correct me if I am wrong) I would say that either a mobile friendly website or an API of some sort as was suggested earlier would probably be the better way to go.  This would avoid issues with having to maintain apps for two different OS versions (assuming we are ignoring WinMo) which could take a lot of time and money depending on the changes the OS developers introduce in each new version. This would also allow for wider availability across more mobile devices.

[ARandomCadet]

Maybe get to your second or third stripe before trying to "fix" CAP?

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'll pass on that suggestion. I don't think that it is how many stripes you have, I already am very familiar with CAP and I have learned most of that from one of my very good friends who is also my flight sergeant. I believe that it has some spots that need to polished, so CAP is not living in the past. Especially when it comes to some of the recruiting efforts.

[ARandomCadet]

...an official app with eServices built in, and a mobile version of testing because we all hate having to zoom in while taking a test on a mobile device...

You talk like you've had to take a lot of tests on this system... 

I take all of my tests via a mobile device, in fact I only use mobile devices unless something can not run on a mobile device (ie. a java web page), in which case I use my net book.

[ARandomCadet]

Tack an extra $1-2 onto membership fees, that pays for it all plus more.

Ahh... a future leader in the democrat party.  Making everybody pay for something regardless if they want it or not.

So kind of like the way taxes work, paying taxes even for roads that you don't use. That situation of paying taxes for roads you don't use, is just like paying extra on membership fees for a feature you don't use (at least that's the way I view it).

[MSG Mac]

What will a new app for your phone or tablet do besides give you instant gratification? There's really not that much  in CAP that can't wait till you get near a computer that is already able to access E-services.

[a2capt]

You don't need to post a new reply for each post. You can use one to reply to all of them.

[Extremepredjudice]

Barebones system + OSX ~ 1,000.

You don't need to buy things premade.

[Critical AOA]

You don't need to post a new reply for each post. You can use one to reply to all of them.

That requires knowledge of technology.

[EMT-83]

...an official app with eServices built in, and a mobile version of testing because we all hate having to zoom in while taking a test on a mobile device...

You talk like you've had to take a lot of tests on this system... 

I take all of my tests via a mobile device, in fact I only use mobile devices unless something can not run on a mobile device (ie. a java web page), in which case I use my net book.

I suppose because mobile devices are the current rage, as demonstrated in all the media hype.

I'd rather use the correct tool for the job.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I've taken services tests on my android. No problems.

[Storm Chaser]

Maybe get to your second or third stripe before trying to "fix" CAP?

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'll pass on that suggestion. I don't think that it is how many stripes you have, I already am very familiar with CAP and I have learned most of that from one of my very good friends who is also my flight sergeant. I believe that it has some spots that need to polished, so CAP is not living in the past. Especially when it comes to some of the recruiting efforts.

Wow! First of all, since you're still a C/AB, you most likely know very little about CAP. You haven't been to encampment. You haven't been to National Cadet Special Activities. You haven't participated in Emergency Services. You don't have a staff position with significant responsibilities. You haven't been a part of the Cadet Advisory Council. And your little experience with CAP is most likely based on your limited participation in your unit and what you've read. And if you've learned almost all of what you know from your flight sergeant (as you stated), then let me tell you that, while his experience is more extensive than yours, it's not really that much as many opportunities in CAP are only available to cadet officers and above. You have a long way to go, cadet. You should listen to those senior to you.

Now, back to your original post; I too would like to see an official CAP mobile app for iOS and Android as I use many mobile devices in CAP (more than you as I have to review personnel records, make data entries and approvals, access regulations and forms you've probably never heard of, etc.). While not the same, I would settle for a mobile-friendly site for eServices, capmembers.com, WMIRS, ORMS, etc. (you do know what the latter acronyms mean, right?). I've often had to do flight releases on the go using my iPhone, so better support would be extremely welcomed. I think many would agree with that.

Unfortunately, CAP has limited resources. We also need airplanes, ground vehicles, communication equipment, infrastructure, training materials, etc. We need to do the best we can with what we have, at least until we can get more... and that doesn't always happen.

[ARandomCadet]

Maybe get to your second or third stripe before trying to "fix" CAP?

Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'll pass on that suggestion. I don't think that it is how many stripes you have, I already am very familiar with CAP and I have learned most of that from one of my very good friends who is also my flight sergeant. I believe that it has some spots that need to polished, so CAP is not living in the past. Especially when it comes to some of the recruiting efforts.

Wow! First of all, since you're still a C/AB, you most likely know very little about CAP. You haven't been to encampment. You haven't been to National Cadet Special Activities. You haven't participated in Emergency Services. You don't have a staff position with significant responsibilities. You haven't been a part of the Cadet Advisory Council. And your little experience with CAP is most likely based on your limited participation in your unit and what you've read. And if you've learned almost all of what you know from your flight sergeant (as you stated), then let me tell you that, while his experience is more extensive than yours, it's not really that much as many opportunities in CAP are only available to cadet officers and above. You have a long way to go, cadet. You should listen to those senior to you.

Now, back to your original post; I too would like to see an official CAP mobile app for iOS and Android as I use many mobile devices in CAP (more than you as I have to review personnel records, make data entries and approvals, access regulations and forms you've probably never heard of, etc.). While not the same, I would settle for a mobile-friendly site for eServices, capmembers.com, WMIRS, ORMS, etc. (you do know what the latter acronyms mean, right?). I've often had to do flight releases on the go using my iPhone, so better support would be extremely welcomed. I think many would agree with that.

Unfortunately, CAP has limited resources. We also need airplanes, ground vehicles, communication equipment, infrastructure, training materials, etc. We need to do the best we can with what we have, at least until we can get more... and that doesn't always happen.

Maybe a better meaning of when I said I am very familiar with CAP, that I mean more on the sides of know more than most other C/ABs would know. Also I have been a member officially for 3 weeks now, but because of squadron policy have been going to squadron meetings, and event for (as of next Thursday, June 26th) two months. Because of the timing, and my good friend from outside of CAP who is my flight sergeant, I know a fair amount, and if it weren't for my schedule (I can't do PT till August) I would promote to C/Amn sometime really soon. The same thing goes for another one of my friends, who is also a C/AB and friends with my flight sergeant (we all spend time together, and go to church together).

[Eclipse]

Well, 3 weeks.  I stand corrected and we should all just knock it off and listen to this highly experienced, knowledgable cadet.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Because of the timing, and my good friend from outside of CAP who is my flight sergeant, I know a fair amount, and if it weren't for my schedule (I can't do PT till August) I would promote to C/Amn sometime really soon.

If there is a legitimate reason you can't do PT then it is not an obstacle to promotion to C/Amn. A doctor's note can exempt you from some or all of the requirements. See CAPR 52-16 para 2-12.

Your job at this stage of your cadet career is to learn to follow and to learn about CAP.

[Майор Хаткевич]

C/AB Rainey, you remind me, very much of a cadet I knew 10 years ago. Except that he didn't try to fix CAP until he was a C/SSgt. Oh, also, I can tell you that ten years later that cadet is now a SM Captain, and if he could, would go back in time and smack himself to cut out the silly behaviour. Ten years later, and he now knows how much he doesn't know about CAP. Take your time, read our texts, try to get regular attendance and progress. Don't focus on fixing problems you can't control or fully understand.

[Storm Chaser]

Well said.

[Critical AOA]

Well, 3 weeks.  I stand corrected and we should all just knock it off and listen to this highly experienced, knowledgable cadet.

:clap:

His length of service is certainly impressive.  I think CAP is actually beneath him and he should immediately be appointed to a high level post in the Pentagon where he can ensure that all of the US Armed Forces are up to his standards. 

[Storm Chaser]

And are issued iOS devices. 

[dwb]

Who else here agrees they need to make an iOS and Android app for CAP. [...] They need to have guides, regulations, and general info along with eServices built into an app. Also anybody have any other suggestions they need to add?

I think a mobile-friendly version of the existing web sites is sufficient. There isn't anything that needs to be done in an app that cannot be done with a mobile version of eServices modules. Bonus: no platform-specific programming  knowledge (e.g., Objective C) is necessary.

That being said, NHQ/IT is literally two people, and they have a "to do" list a mile long. With the uncertainty in CAP's budget outlook, they don't have the funding to outsource a big mobile eServices project, and we have to balance our desire for mobile web sites with the 100 other competing priorities that occupy the time of the two IT folks at NHQ.

So, while I agree that mobile-friendly cadet tests and the like are a good idea, I also don't think they're a good enough idea to implement ahead of the many other things on IT's punch list.

Also, welcome to CAP!

[Extremepredjudice]

Yeah, let's pick on the new guy and ridicule him. Sounds like a plan.


Real mature guys! It is definitely a good first impression for him.



Just make a responsive site. Problem solved.

[Eclipse]

Yeah, let's pick on the new guy and ridicule him. Sounds like a plan.

In the words of my PD buddy "If you choose to draw attention to yourself, you will get attention."

[Extremepredjudice]

Yeah, let's pick on the new guy and ridicule him. Sounds like a plan.

In the words of my PD buddy "If you choose to draw attention to yourself, you will get attention."

So bullying is okay if they draw attention to themselves? That is EXACTLY the same as saying "she deserved to get raped, she is a slut." And we all know that is wrong, I hope.

[Eclipse]

No, it's not, even a little.

Knock it off.

[SarDragon]

Yeah, let's pick on the new guy and ridicule him. Sounds like a plan.


Real mature guys! It is definitely a good first impression for him.



Just make a responsive site. Problem solved.

PM sent.

[MSG Mac]

Leave the Cadet alone. He asked a question and was given several reasons that his idea was not practical at this time. When you were all 13 years old, I'm sure you also had a simplified view of the world. Let him learn by his mistakes, but don't pile on.

[ARandomCadet]

Leave the Cadet alone. He asked a question and was given several reasons that his idea was not practical at this time. When you were all 13 12 years old, I'm sure you also had a simplified view of the world. Let him learn by his mistakes, but don't pile on.

Sorry to correct you on my age, I am OCD about things like time and other minor details (age being one) being perfect, but I'm 12. Again, it's my OCD kicking in right now.

[Extremepredjudice]

Yeah, let's pick on the new guy and ridicule him. Sounds like a plan.


Real mature guys! It is definitely a good first impression for him.



Just make a responsive site. Problem solved.

PM sent.

PM not recieved.

[SarDragon]

Resent.

You might also want to reconsider your sig line. It might come back to bite you. Remember whose sandbox you're playing in.

[Extremepredjudice]

Resent.

You might also want to reconsider your sig line. It might come back to bite you. Remember whose sandbox you're playing in.

Because I forgot that the moderators could ban people. 

[whatevah]

Yeah, let's pick on the new guy and ridicule him. Sounds like a plan.

In the words of my PD buddy "If you choose to draw attention to yourself, you will get attention."

So bullying is okay if they draw attention to themselves? That is EXACTLY the same as saying "she deserved to get raped, she is a slut." And we all know that is wrong, I hope.

The way your brain works... wow.

[dwb]

So bullying is okay if they draw attention to themselves?

Let's be careful with the "b word". Not every disparaging remark is bullying. It's like reading the DoD hazing definition and saying "anything can be hazing!" No, not anything. The words in that definition have meaning, and were chosen deliberately. A cadet who gets embarassed about a minor transgression is not a cadet who was humiliated, who was made to suffer. Not every person who comes on CAP Talk and gets shouted down for an opinion has been bullied.

That said, there are positive ways to field these kinds of questions. Instead of saying "you're a n00b, what do you know?", you can use the opportunity to expand the cadet's point of view, show them how other factors and competing priorities can make even a good idea one that just isn't feasible.

This kind of nuanced answer -- good idea vs. feasible idea, good idea to me vs. good idea for the organization, understanding constraints and competing priorities -- is exactly the kind of cognitive exercise that is good for a 12-year-old to be exposed to.

Shouting him down is only going to make him paranoid about sticking his neck out again, which isn't precisely the behavior we want to encourage. What we want to encourage is him sticking his neck out again after thinking through the opinion a bit more.

Alright, I'm done talking about him as if he isn't reading this thread.