Source and style for sew-on reflective striping?

[Eclipse]

After spending the weekend waiting with Spaceman3750 while Charlie chased Foxtrot in a circle, I've decided I want to
use that vest I reviewed while back as my main rig, but I need to add some striping to it.

I got a little wrapped up last night with all the options, wondering if anyone has a good source with decent pricing, and an opinion
as to which style to go with.  This is an orange vest, so I want to add the lime-colored stripes, but the typical lime with glued silver doesn't
look like it will hold up over time.

Also trying to find a source of embroidered reflective US flags with gold edging.  Found plenty of flags, and some with silver, but none with gold.

[SarDragon]

Striping - a local fabric store, or a safety equipment store. Also, try online. Search for Scotchlite; you'll get reflective stick-on tape, and the sew-on fabric stuff.

Flags - I think Gall's carries them.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Charlie chasing foxtrot?

What was that about, may I ask?

Nothing like I used to do while at Grad School in Bloomington. Indiana I hope? I ran after squirrels to make them run, but one decided to run around a tree and I followed it. Felt stupid afterwards, as it appeared I was running circles around a tree for no reason...

Flyer

[Eclipse]

I ran after squirrels to make them run...

That sounds about right.

I imagine at some point the stories are going to pop up here, but I let the pile cool for a bit.

SARDRAGON - good call on Gall's, and now that I saw what they have I was reminded that I actually might have some from
old flightsuits, etc.

Still looking for opinions in regards to style of striping, etc.

[Storm Chaser]

Eclipse, can you post a link to your vest review? It may give us a better idea of what you want to do with it.

[Eclipse]

Here's where it kicks into the review.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=10134.msg186120#msg186120

Unfortunately the last time I checked with Tim, he was no response.

My idea is to take a look at other ANSI II orange vests and match the striping pattern and coverage as close as I can, and calling it a day.
My OCD won't let me do this 1/2-butt so that's why I want to make sure I make a good choice on the striping material.  I'm thinking
something poly-vinyl would hold up best long term.

I used the SARMED this weekend and it's still a great choice, but having this other one just sitting in the box makes me sad.
I'm also seriously considering adding a pocket to the SARMED for a bladder - that should be pretty easy.

I gave the Black Hawk vest to a cadet at encampment a right after I wrote the review (I think with the assumption that I would use the new one for that purpose).

Another funny thing was that I thought the new one was way too short for me as I'm pretty tall, and then one day by accident I found the vertical adjustment straps.

Edit:  THERE'S MY SPIRAL TASK GUIDE!   I was looking all over for it this weekend!

[Storm Chaser]

I've attached a handy guide to ANSI II standards with some examples of compliant stripe patterns.

[Eclipse]

Thanks!  Very handy.

I'm thinking I can get very close to one of those indicated.

[SarDragon]

The one thing I see in the spec that might be an issue is fluorescent fabric. If you shine a UV light on your gear, what happens? Turns purple? Or lights up the room? If it's not fluorescent (lights up the room), then it can't really be ANSI compliant.

[Storm Chaser]

The one thing I see in the spec that might be an issue is fluorescent fabric. If you shine a UV light on your gear, what happens? Turns purple? Or lights up the room? If it's not fluorescent (lights up the room), then it can't really be ANSI compliant.

Fluorescent refers to the color of the fabric not its reflectivity. If you shine a light at any ANSI II compliant vest, the fabric will not light up the room (I own several ANSI II vests and can verify that). The reflectivity of the vest is attained with the reflective tape; that's what Eclipse wants to add to his gear.

[SarDragon]

Rad the spec in the link.

As a standard for total garment design, ANSI/ISEA 107-2010 requires:
• Garment fabric must be fluorescent
– Red/orange or
– Lime/yellow
• It must have 201 in.² of retroreflective trim and 775 in.² of fluorescent
background material.

I just checked all my vests, and the ones marked ANSI compliant definitely fluoresce under UV light.

[Storm Chaser]

I missed the part where you said UV light; I have not actually tried that, so you may be right.

That being said, where are you going to be exposed to UV light in a GSAR environment? I think high visibility material in colors that match those prescribed by ANSI should be enough. Otherwise, we would have to do UV inspections to make sure everyone complies and I doubt that's the intend of CAPR 62-1. The important thing about ANSI is that it has high visibility during the day (hence the orange or lime color) and high visibility at night (hence the reflective tape).

[SarDragon]

I missed the part where you said UV light; I have not actually tried that, so you may be right.

That being said, where are you going to be exposed to UV light in a GSAR environment? I think high visibility material in colors that match those prescribed by ANSI should be enough. Otherwise, we would have to do UV inspections to make sure everyone complies and I doubt that's the intend of CAPR 62-1. The important thing about ANSI is that it has high visibility during the day (hence the orange or lime color) and high visibility at night (hence the reflective tape).

Ever had a sunburn? That's from too much UV on your skin. UV is a significant component of sunlight, and fluorescent materials take advantage of this.

Another example is the whiteners in detergents. They are fluorescent materials that make your clothes look brighter in sunlight.

[Storm Chaser]

Of course the sun has UV rays. I was referring to the blue/purple UV lights that you mentioned on one of your previous posts. I've never seen my ANSI II vest, or anyone else's, shine in broad daylight due to the fluorescent material.

[SarDragon]

It's there; you just don't notice it because you've never seen it in different light. (Pun intended) The UV light I used just shows the difference in response to UV.

Go to some sites that offer orange safety gear, and look at the different shades of orange. Photos don't show the effect as well, because the flash lacks UV, but the brighter ones are fluorescent, and the duller looking ones aren't.

There really is a big difference when you see the two different materials in sunlight.

All that said - Bob's idea will probably work well in the field, but if someone gets picky (and we know how often that happens in CAP), I'm just pointing out that it probably will not be compliant with our rules.

[Eclipse]

Yeah - like I can't take an ANSI label from a $4 vest and sew that into this!

Obviously it won't be actual ANSI II, I'm not overly concerned about that - if someone wants to shine their UV light at me, I'll deal with it then.

I'm looking for form and function.

[Storm Chaser]

Agree. In this case, the "spirit" of the law (safety) is more important than the law itself. I've seen folks covering their ANSI II vests with camouflaged gear; that obviously defeats the purpose of the vest. I've also seen members covering their gear with ANSI II vests, making it impractical to use in the field. You really need the right combination between "form and function". Since, at the end of the day, we need to be able to accomplish the mission successfully and safely.

[Spaceman3750]

http://www.identi-tape.com/solas.html#solasSO

Did they ever go into production with that pack? I forgot about it, should have asked to see it this weekend.

[Eclipse]

^ No, and it appears the source may have moved on.  My last attempt at a contact went unanswered.

As you might recall, I mentioned that I re-packed things several times back and forth and then settled on the SARMED, but I want
to try using the other one as my main one.

[Eclipse]

So I got some stuff from JoAnn Fabrics



And I'm thinking something like this on the vest:


Mind you, I'm under no illusion that making this look decent won't be quite as easy as Photoshopping it.

[SarDragon]

Fabric or mesh vest? That stuff will not do well on the mesh. There's not enough surface area for the adhesive to do a good job.

[NIN]

Bob just sealed it: No more ground team for NIN. I won't dress up like that.

[Eclipse]

Fabric or mesh vest? That stuff will not do well on the mesh. There's not enough surface area for the adhesive to do a good job.

This is a full-fabric vest that has a velour feel to it.

I won't be using any adhesive, or at least not beyond positioning it.  From there it'll be sewn down on a machine.

Bob just sealed it: No more ground team for NIN. I won't dress up like that.

Nice.

[SarDragon]

Fabric or mesh vest? That stuff will not do well on the mesh. There's not enough surface area for the adhesive to do a good job.

This is a full-fabric vest that has a velour feel to it.

I won't be using any adhesive, or at least not beyond positioning it.  From there it'll be sewn down on a machine.

OK, then it should do well. I tried some iron-on stuff on a mesh M/C vest, and it lasted about 30 miles. Sewing was the only fix.

[Eclipse]

Even with sewing I have some concerns about the long-tern durability of this stuff.

[SarDragon]

Even with sewing I have some concerns about the long-tern durability of this stuff.

The sew-on Scotchlite that this resembles (sans colored ribbon) was pretty durable. I had some stuff that was on a parka that got dry cleaned once a month over four Maine winters, and it held up well. I'll look for some when I'm out tomorrow, and see how it looks. Dritz makes some high quality products.

[Al Sayre]

I've attached a handy guide to ANSI II standards with some examples of compliant stripe patterns.

It must have 201 in.² of retroreflective trim and 775 in.² of fluorescent
background material.

What do you do with small cadets that don't have 201 in^2 of torso? 

[davidsinn]

I've attached a handy guide to ANSI II standards with some examples of compliant stripe patterns.

It must have 201 in.² of retroreflective trim and 775 in.² of fluorescent
background material.

What do you do with small cadets that don't have 201 in^2 of torso? 

Attach more cadets until you get enough surface area.

[LGM30GMCC]

Agree. In this case, the "spirit" of the law (safety) is more important than the law itself. I've seen folks covering their ANSI II vests with camouflaged gear; that obviously defeats the purpose of the vest. I've also seen members covering their gear with ANSI II vests, making it impractical to use in the field. You really need the right combination between "form and function". Since, at the end of the day, we need to be able to accomplish the mission successfully and safely.

That's one of the reasons (another being a Captain with too much money some days  ) on this pack in the reflective yellow/lime green. Combined with the vest under it, the entire thing is incredibly visible. Almost painfully so on days when it's a bit gray but UV light is coming through just fine. You'd think it was radioactive.

[SarDragon]

That link has issues.

This one works.

[Eclipse]

Agree. In this case, the "spirit" of the law (safety) is more important than the law itself. I've seen folks covering their ANSI II vests with camouflaged gear; that obviously defeats the purpose of the vest. I've also seen members covering their gear with ANSI II vests, making it impractical to use in the field. You really need the right combination between "form and function". Since, at the end of the day, we need to be able to accomplish the mission successfully and safely.

How does putting stripes on your gear make the "impractical for the field"?

[SarDragon]

Agree. In this case, the "spirit" of the law (safety) is more important than the law itself. I've seen folks covering their ANSI II vests with camouflaged gear; that obviously defeats the purpose of the vest. I've also seen members covering their gear with ANSI II vests, making it impractical to use in the field. You really need the right combination between "form and function". Since, at the end of the day, we need to be able to accomplish the mission successfully and safely.

How does putting stripes on your gear make the "impractical for the field"?

RTFM, Bob. If you cover your fancy gear vest or pack with an ANSI II vest, it makes all the goodies inside less accessible.