New CAP Chaplain uniform?

[jacklumanog]

Wow... did I miss something here?

From this news item on the CAP HQ website (http://capmsi.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&nodeID=6192&newsID=2836&year=2007&month=3), CAP Chaplains from the FLWG assisted with some exercise.  The CAP Chaplains are in a uniform that I don't recall being authorized to wear:





Again, did I miss something here?

[Chaplaindon]

Note the ACU nametags worn "U.S. Air Force Aux" too ...

Regardless of the uniform issue(s), it's nice to see CAP HCs in the field supporting our military forces. That having been said, you'd think that NHQ would have chosen to feature them in an article in proper uniforms.

Hopefully this will not cause a rash of "U.S. Air Force Aux" nametags and unauthorized ACU wear by other members.

[RiverAux]

At least he had the color rank insignia -- though lacking the blue background.

[MIKE]

Just for giggles... You can get flag blue on ACU insignia here.

If we had that uniform it would be a lot less hassle to change out the branch tapes.

[LtCol White]

Wonder what NHQ's opinion of the uniform will be. "Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm"

[RiverAux]

Now, there was some sort of MOU signed for CAP Chaplains to assist Florida National Guard.  It is possible that there may have been some sort of special uniform clause that was part of it that "legalized" this -- though I sort of doubt it. 

[Hawk200]

There are Airmen that wear the ACU's, so I guess it's not too much of a stretch. Personally, I'd like to see something in writing that authorizes it. Otherwise, it's trouble waiting to happen.

[RiverAux]

National public affairs watches this board pretty closely, I'll say that there is a good chance that those photos get taken off tomorrow....

[Lamh Dearg]

Just throwing it out there, but since the Chaplains are providing assistance to the military, should that not fall under the "USAF Aux side of the house" since they are working with a Federal entity? Assuming that's the case then they are indeed operating as USAF Aux personnel - now having said that, the question still remains who authorized the wear of ACUs and also the USAF Aux tape.

Personally, I think the fact that they are assisting an active duty unit and also work with other NG units is laudible and should fit well with what many on this board have called for which is more integration in an augment capacity with USAF and beyond.   

[RiverAux]

I'm sure it was an Air Force Assigned Mission. 

Another possibility might be that someone in the National Guard put together that uniform for them without understanding our regulations.

[Chaplaindon]

It could also be a sort of compulsory "When in Rome do as the Romans do" situation.

Imagine agreeing to volunteer for a military exercise as a CAP chaplain only to arrive on-site in your appropriately patched CAP/USAF woodland BDU and face a General Officer (let's say, for the sake of the scenario) who hands you an ACU (replete with your name emblazoned on it along with "U.S. AIR FORCE AUX.") and instructs (even orders) you to wear it.

Do you create a "scene" between a CAP Chaplain (Major) and a NG General Officer by refusing to do as instructed and walking away? Or do you salute and do as you are told?

I mean that General really can't order a CAP civilian to do anything. We are not subject to the UCMJ. But it could cause an enormous rift between the NG and CAP if poorly handled.

An interesting moral dilemma. I know, at worst, I wouldn't submit my photos to the CAP News.

Fodder for discussion at least ...

[DNall]

Another possibility might be that someone in the National Guard put together that uniform for them without understanding our regulations.

I was thinking the same thing. I very seriously doubt they went out & sprung for a full set of ACUs, and just so happened that both did the same thing.

Sure is an interesting look. I don't think NHQ will or should take down the pics (though they may cut the link to the big one where you can read the tape). I think it gets across just what they were doing & leaves enough doubt if the mil authorized it for them to get away with it.

The mroe I think about it it seems like this must be related to that NG thing, cause the story seemed like it was talking about an active duty AF unit, that would not be in ACUs.

[Nick]

Yeah, knowing how well-equipped the Army works ... I think the most realistic scenario is that they were issued those uniforms along with what looks like an entire TA-50 for the event, and I'm sure for the primary purpose of bringing in the chaplains as "part of the team", etc. etc.

On a personal note, I think it's excellent... they don't stand out as the red-headed step-children of the outfit, and I think they look quite professional.  But, I've also historically entrusted chaplains to be the most responsible and behaved subset of members.

I do wish that the Air Force (and CAP for that matter) would just go with the ACU and do away with this whole ABU product.  Save money, use already developed items.  But I wasn't invited to that project group.

(And an aside ... they're wearing the Army Chaplain insignia too. )

[PhoenixRisen]

I'm sure it's been brought up before; but has anyone ever suggested getting 'U.S. AIR FORCE AUX' on our tapes?

[Chappie]

Yeah, knowing how well-equipped the Army works ... I think the most realistic scenario is that they were issued those uniforms along with what looks like an entire TA-50 for the event, and I'm sure for the primary purpose of bringing in the chaplains as "part of the team", etc. etc.

On a personal note, I think it's excellent... they don't stand out as the red-headed step-children of the outfit, and I think they look quite professional.  But, I've also historically entrusted chaplains to be the most responsible and behaved subset of members.

<snip>

(And an aside ... they're wearing the Army Chaplain insignia too. )

While the chaplains are not wearing a CAP uniform, I think McLarty's scenario is what took place.  They appear to be wearing National Guard uniforms....and as McLarty pointed out...the cross on their uniforms is that of the U.S. Army.  The USAF Chaplain Service does not wear subdued "hard" insignias on their BDUs (which are woodland pattern --- spent several days a couple of weeks ago at a CSRSC on an active AFB and took note of what the base chaplains wore as everyday uniforms....BDUs).

[lordmonar]

I am wearing my brown leather A-2 jacket with my Flight suit next SAREX.  I mean if national has is not going to back up its own regulations any better than that.  I guess I can do just about anything I want to.

Back a couple of years ago...my cadets performed a flag ceremony in Japan.  I submitted the story to NHQ with some pictures.....all my pictures were rejected because some had cadets with no wing patch or were wearing Gortex or no CAP name tapes.

But they allow this?  Great story....good for them.  What the hell is going on with the uniform.  Sure it's cool....but think of the message.  Anyone not totally outraged about this photo is not allowed to make a single comment out NHQ not following directives or too much bling or that PA wing is issuing pink berets! 

[DNall]

that PA wing is issuing pink berets! 

Woohoo, pink berets for everyone... in san fran that is.

Of course you're right, and of course they shouldn't have posted it, but I think they'll leave it cause it seems to be leaning forward in a direction they like, or it'll slip out that it was authorized for this event by XYZ on request of ABC, and even though we all know that doesn't make it legal we'll just grumble on home & let it go. Meanwhile they call it leaning forward, so I don't think they'll take it down.

PS- I'm with Nick that AF should just drop ABU & stick beside the Army on this one. I really don't like the grade down there out of sight & loss of branch insignia, but otherwise ACUs are pretty good.

[ddelaney103]

This is wrong on so many levels I'm not sure where to begin.

Top of my list - why is there a CAP Chaplain in full "Battle Rattle?"  That's an image up there in the "PAO's nightmare" list with that picture of the Navy chaplain fully geared up forcefully presenting the cross (I can't find the link right now).

If they're supporting the exercise, they don't need a different uniform from CAP.  If they're participating, they're pushing the "non-combat support" role to the edge and beyond, as well as violating a few IG ORE ROE's.

FLWG, eh?  Why is it when I'm probing for where the pain's coming from, I usually find it in the SE Quadrant?

[Psicorp]

This is wrong on so many levels I'm not sure where to begin.

Top of my list - why is there a CAP Chaplain in full "Battle Rattle?" 

I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it was requested by the Army and approved by the Air Force...big stretch, but I'm willing to consider the possibility as plausible.

FLWG, eh?  Why is it when I'm probing for where the pain's coming from, I usually find it in the SE Quadrant?

One word...Maxwell.

[Chaplaindon]

The "Battle Rattle" (by itself) isn't a problem for chaplains as long as they are not armed. You can wear the load bearing gear (in fact the current issue field chaplain's kit is designed to be attached to LBG hearness). A Kevlar helmet might be a useful safety adjunct in the field (sort of like the Nomex flying suits some of our flight crews wear, ostensibly for the same reason). Likewise, CAP members who've been fortunate enough to receive an orientation flight in a military tactical aircraft have been required to don the full "survival/safety/battle rattle" (less handgun) for the flight.

Military chaplains (and CAP chaplains) dress and are equiped --usually-- as are the folks they are serving (and serving with) and the operational setting they are in.

Mind you, I have issues with the uniform violations (insofar as the chaplains are CAP) displayed and the example it will set, however, as I wrote earlier, I could understand a scenario wherein I'd have to consider doing the same. Although I think I'd have sought to wear --at least-- my USAF/CAP chaplain's badge if my uniform listed some permutation of "USAF" as theirs did.

And IMHO (for what that's worth) the ACU is a great looking and functional uniform and I (personally) PREFER "U.S. AIR FORCE AUX." on my namestrip to "U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL."

But the so-called "battle rattle" (exclusive of weaponry -- chaplains are noncombatants and are to be unarmed, however protected by enlisted Chaplain Assistants who are armed) isn't and shouldn't --of itself-- be a problem. I mean our GT's often carry as much kit (less the Kevlar cooking pot) in similar LBG in CAP ... as a GTM1 and a GTL, I know I have.

If, on the other hand, I pick up and "bear" a weapon while in uniform, I lose my ecclesiatical endorsement as a chaplain and would have to remove my badge from my uniform and assume duties as a non-chaplain CAP officer.