Uniform Tape Test

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

See, there's that "perspective" thing again.  It was ugly (if you didn't like maroon, surely you have to admire the pure red even less), had nothing to do with our heritage (since we didn't have any), or aviation in general (it was a modifed Army uniform, otherwise essentially unchanged from before Orville's first flight).

It's not that I particularly detested the maroon as a colour - it was what it represented (a punitive action to the entire CAP adult membership based on the actions of a few...kind of like in BMT when the TI drops you all for pushups because of one guy's messing-up).  However, it did look terrible.  I threw mine away when the grey ones came in.  I saw a set of maroon ones on EvilBay for "collectors."  My first thought was "why?"

WRT the WWII uniforms...again, they weren't an entirely separate class of uniforms, as we have now.  I also believe that the red epaulettes were phased out (?) before the USAF blue uniform was adopted and for a while the only distinction CAP had on the pinks and greens was collar brass, shoulder patch and cap badge.

In fact, I would be honoured to go to some form of the pinks and greens as opposed to the grey/white/blazer setup we have now.

All back to that subjective opinions about uniforms meme.

Yes, it is subjective, based on my own opinion and of those I know in CAP.  I know a lot of people who liked the CSU, but do not like the G/W.  I think the G/W is plug ugly, as my dad used to say.  I have yet to meet anyone personally who actually LIKES the way it looks, after almost 20 years off-and-on in CAP.  Most I know who choose to wear it do so for the convenience/cost factor.  I have never heard anyone say they are enthusiastic about the appearance of it.  The best compliment I can give it is the slight change to allow rank slides and CAP badging to be worn.

And -- for better or worse -- the NEC / CSAG does not have the authority to approve or disapprove uniforms anymore.

Colonel, just let me say again that the frustration I feel with this issue is not directed at you personally.

You have always done exemplary work in trying to keep us worker bees informed, and I salute you for that (and not just because you're a Colonel and I'm a Captain).

The frustration comes from the whole organisation having to take the hit for the actions of a few.

No uniforms are issued to seniors, ergo there is no prohibition against a commander prescribing a UOD
regardless whether the members have it or not.

I'll agree it says "type" - an assertion that a CC could specify blues / whites is probably too extreme for
the reg to allow, but he certainly could specify a type.

Then said CC would not have me, or many others, as a participant.  I doubt very much that someone owning a set of BBDU's is going to be motivated to get BDU's (for example) if a CC specifies that as the UOD (or the reverse).

Example: A lot of aircrews wear either the green or blue (my choice) flight suit, but if the OIC of a training exercise specifies polo shirts and Bermuda shorts because s/he likes it better and wants everyone to look like him/her...I doubt there will be many in attendance.

[coloncapfl]

I read many post in Cap Talk about taking out AF uniforms or looking at omitting weight standards or just wearing the polo for everything.
I was a former cadet and former military. One of the reasons I joined CAP is the Air Force affiliation and to wear AF style uniforms, Even though I didn't have the privilege to serve during combat, I feel proud of having wore a uniform and represent our country. I know that there are people that say about weight standards and all but in honor of those soldiers who are fighting for us, don't you thing that wearing a AF style uniform out of standards would give a good image. How many people we see that make fun of Law Enforcement Officers in uniform that look overweight?
If a cadet looks like that, they know its a kid and people usually let it slide, but us adults, some people out there don't know the difference from afar of an AF Active Duty and a CAP senior. I believe that if you have zero contacts with cadets or the public and all your CAP time contact is with CAP seniors,by all means wear the polo, have the "corporate" look. on the other hand if you have any contact  with cadets or with civilians, a more military style uniform should be the norm. I work with cadets and I wear all uniforms, once every bit of time I wear the polo combo, most of the time I'm in BDUs. I don't wear the Blues because I cant afford it, otherwise that would be my preferred uniform.

We are (at least I think still) an official auxiliary of the United States Air Force, and as a former military (my opinion) I would have felt offended if I have members of an organization that are part of us feeling disgusted in having any connection with looking like they are part of us.
I made that comment because I hear people wanting to ditch all AF style uniforms altogether. I respect those who have the desire to wear the AF style uniform but cant wear it due to standards.

Lastly. I believe that the only reason that there is no opportunity to wear any other uniform but the polo is because 1. You have no contact with cadets or 2. You participate in no other type of Special Activity where the general public is present. otherwise there are plenty of opportunities to wear either a military style corporate uniform or a AF style uniform.

I believe that we should set the example to the cadets and be good PR for the public and the AF. That is My honest opinion emphasizing in opinion,yet who am I?

I sincerely apologize if I hurt anybody's feelings, honestly is not my intention.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I was a former cadet and former military. One of the reasons I joined CAP is the Air Force affiliation and to wear AF style uniforms, Even though I didn't have the privilege to serve during combat, I feel proud of having wore a uniform and represent our country.

Me too, except I was never a cadet.

I know that there are people that say about weight standards and all but in honor of those soldiers who are fighting for us, don't you thing that wearing a AF style uniform out of standards would give a good image. How many people we see that make fun of Law Enforcement Officers in uniform that look overweight?

I personally don't make fun of overweight LEO's, but point taken.

I believe the point made about the H/W standards is that since the Coast Guard allows their Auxiliary to wear their uniform without H/W standards, why aren't we allowed to?

If a cadet looks like that, they know its a kid and people usually let it slide...

Which should not be the case, especially given the near-epidemic rate of childhood (and adult) obesity in this country.

...but us adults, some people out there don't know the difference from afar of an AF Active Duty and a CAP senior.

Some also don't know from two inches away.

I believe that if you have zero contacts with cadets or the public and all your CAP time contact is with CAP seniors,by all means wear the polo, have the "corporate" look. on the other hand if you have any contact  with cadets or with civilians, a more military style uniform should be the norm.

We don't currently have a military-style uniform for the "corporate" side, not since the CSU was taken from us.  I don't consider the G/W to be "military-style;" no headgear, and no service coat.

I don't wear the Blues because I cant afford it, otherwise that would be my preferred uniform.

Have you tried EBay?  I've got some good uniform stuff off there at very reasonable cost.

We are (at least I think still) an official auxiliary of the United States Air Force

There's the goofy AUXON/AUXOFF situation, but I get your point.

and as a former military (my opinion) I would have felt offended if I have members of an organization that are part of us feeling disgusted in having any connection with looking like they are part of us.  I made that comment because I hear people wanting to ditch all AF style uniforms altogether.

The ones who say that are very vocal but I don't know how big of a percentage of our membership they actually are.  My experience is that mindset tends to be the case in senior squadrons.

I respect those who have the desire to wear the AF style uniform but cant wear it due to standards.

Seconded.

Lastly. I believe that the only reason that there is no opportunity to wear any other uniform but the polo is because 1. You have no contact with cadets or 2. You participate in no other type of Special Activity where the general public is present. otherwise there are plenty of opportunities to wear either a military style corporate uniform or a AF style uniform.

I think most of the polo-only types are that way out of cost/convenience considerations.  The polo is cheap, low-maintenance and you don't have to buy badges, etc. for it.  Nonetheless, regs specify that every CAP senior must have at minimum the AF blue uniform OR the grey-white kit.  I have both, but do not own a polo and have no plans to.

I believe that we should set the example to the cadets and be good PR for the public and the AF.  That is My honest opinion emphasizing in opinion,yet who am I?

Who are you?  A CAP member expressing an opinion.

[rframe]

I think most of the polo-only types are that way out of cost/convenience considerations.  The polo is cheap, low-maintenance and you don't have to buy badges, etc. for it.  Nonetheless, regs specify that every CAP senior must have at minimum the AF blue uniform OR the grey-white kit.  I have both, but do not own a polo and have no plans to.

As a new senior, I much prefer the look of the the grey/white... the aviator shirt is appropriate, has a professional aviation theme, is relatively inexpensive, and practical.  I bought a polo because its simple and most other SM's seem to wear them, so I decided I'd get one, but personally I think they are ugly and cheesy (as in fast food uniform).  I have zero desire to wear AF stuff (and do meet h/w requirements).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As a new senior, I much prefer the look of the the grey/white... the aviator shirt is appropriate, has a professional aviation theme, is relatively inexpensive, and practical.

Your preferences are your preferences.

However, and I'm not trying to be a smart Alec here, what "professional aviation theme" does the G/W have?

It doesn't look like military aviation and it doesn't look like commercial airlines...most of them that I've seen tend to wear blue/black, depending on what their airline requires.



I suggested some time ago replacing the blazer with something like this (with CAP devices worn) but that got shouted down in calls of "McPeak uniform," "Navy," "single breasted CSU," and others....

[Eclipse]

Your preferences are your preferences.

The very fact that members, at the rank and file level, can have a "preference" as to something that
is supposed to be "uniform", is part of the problem.

[rframe]

Your preferences are your preferences.

However, and I'm not trying to be a smart Alec here, what "professional aviation theme" does the G/W have?

Exactly, and I understand some others have preferences different than mine and that's fine.

The aviator shirt is most definitely a professional aviation dress standard and is used as the basic garment in the majority of airline, corporate, and flight school uniforms.  Some airlines do add the formal jacket and hat, but those are becoming much less emphasized now days.  The grey pants seems pretty arbitrary, I dont really care about that (black/blue would be nice).

The very fact that members, at the rank and file level, can have a "preference" as to something that is supposed to be "uniform", is part of the problem.

I agree that there is nothing at all "uniform" about the CAP clothing issue.  Reading through the level 1 uniform and 39-1 as a new member is really quite comical.  It's as if someone with multiple personalities and identity issues wrote it all.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The grey pants seems pretty arbitrary, I dont really care about that (black/blue would be nice).

I'm not sure how much time you have in CAP, but one thing you'll learn quickly is that grey is, for some inexplicable reason, CAP's favourite colour.    The "answer" to most uniform issues is "let's make it grey!"

I would dearly love to see the white shirt be changed to a blue civilian airline-type shirt, readily available on the internet at reasonable prices, but another thing about CAP uniforms is that those making the decision seem to be allergic to any shade of blue for an unwarranted fear of ticking the Air Force off.

I agree that there is nothing at all "uniform" about the CAP clothing issue.  Reading through the level 1 uniform and 39-1 as a new member is really quite comical.  It's as if someone with multiple personalities and identity issues wrote it all.

That's because it's not really a unified document...it's more of a cobbling together of previous regs and ICL's (Interim Change Letters).

[SarDragon]

The grey pants seems pretty arbitrary, I dont really care about that (black/blue would be nice).

I would dearly love to see the white shirt be changed to a blue civilian airline-type shirt, readily available on the internet at reasonable prices, ...

The van Heusen Aviator shirt is equally available online, as well as most pilot shops at GA airports. I found at least 20 online sources by searching for "van Heusen Aviator" +shirt.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The van Heusen Aviator shirt is equally available online, as well as most pilot shops at GA airports. I found at least 20 online sources by searching for "van Heusen Aviator" +shirt.

I know.  Our local airport doesn't have a pilot shop (too small, yet it's an international airport, go figure) so I had to go online.

What I meant, in terms of "wish list," was to swop the white VH (no, not Van Halen) aviator shirt for the blue VH aviator shirt.  Same cut, same everything, just in a darker blue shade than the AF blue shirt.

My point is that if such a change were made, the cost to the member would not change.  Same company, same price.

We used to have a VH factory outlet nearby, but I don't think they stocked the aviator shirts.

[RiverAux]

Well, they say that darker colors are supposed to be "slimming", which might be a good thing for many in the gray/white uniform..... 

[arajca]

I can't wear Van Husen shirts. Their sizing for anything over a 18 neck is for someone who is no taller than 5'8", not over 6'. And there are quite a few like me out there who can't (or shouldn't*) wear the Van Husen shirts.

*when you can see the side hems of a shirt above the belt when pants are worn at the waist, the shirt is too short.

[SarDragon]

They used to make them in a long version, but I didn't look when I did my most recent search.

Yup, they still make a long version in SS (up to 18.5 neck). Didn't see LS in tall.

[Devil Doc]

I dont even wear the long sleeve version. I am debating if i should wear my Aviator to the Award Banquet my Unit is holding.

[PHall]

I dont even wear the long sleeve version. I am debating if i should wear my Aviator to the Award Banquet my Unit is holding.

An Awards Banquet is something where the Blazer combo would be appropraite. If you don't have that then a suit would be appropriate.

[Devil Doc]

Looks like im going with a suit. Shucks, Oh Well thats CAP for ya (Come And Pay)

[PHall]

Looks like im going with a suit. Shucks, Oh Well thats CAP for ya (Come And Pay)

You just now figured that out!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Well, they say that darker colors are supposed to be "slimming", which might be a good thing for many in the gray/white uniform..... 

Which is another reason I suggest swopping the white out for blue.  Seriously.



Exactly the same cut, fabric, pricing and manufacturer as the white shirts...and it would leave the CAP sacrosanct colour grey untouched.

[Devil Doc]

^^^ That looks good.

[PHall]

Well, they say that darker colors are supposed to be "slimming", which might be a good thing for many in the gray/white uniform..... 

Which is another reason I suggest swopping the white out for blue.  Seriously.



Exactly the same cut, fabric, pricing and manufacturer as the white shirts...and it would leave the CAP sacrosanct colour grey untouched.

Other then the missing pleats on the pockets, it's a match for the AIR FORCE uniform shirt.
This solves "your" problem how? By looking less like CAP and more like USAF???