Uniform Tape Test

[inactive123]

   In every sport I qplay, we all wear the same uniforms. That is, except the coaches. This is the coaches don't need it because it's not appropriate for the task they are completing, coaching, and a more appropriate option is a team t-shirt. Every player on my team wears the same uniform an pads the same colors , including helmets, gloves, and shells for our pants (hockey).Even off the ice, we are to wear dress pants, dress shirt, and team tie with oue team jackets ( when we are not warming up). And when we are warming up, we even have a track suit.So why should CAP be any different. We can all wear the uniform appropriate to ourselves, and to the mission, and still look like a professional team.

[AngelWings]

   In every sport I qplay, we all wear the same uniforms. That is, except the coaches. This is the coaches don't need it because it's not appropriate for the task they are completing, coaching, and a more appropriate option is a team t-shirt. Every player on my team wears the same uniform an pads the same colors , including helmets, gloves, and shells for our pants (hockey).Even off the ice, we are to wear dress pants, dress shirt, and team tie with oue team jackets ( when we are not warming up). And when we are warming up, we even have a track suit.So why should CAP be any different. We can all wear the uniform appropriate to ourselves, and to the mission, and still look like a professional team.

Exactly, and we're fine right now.

[Eclipse]

Angelwings, you really have no idea what you are talking about, and no experience in regards
to dealing with the issue, so I don't know, exactly, what basis you have for your comments.
Cadets really have no skin in this game until they are 18, and from there, the number affected
is probably statistically zero.

First, no one suggested, necessarily, that the blues are removed.  We simply want one uniform.

Second, your comments in regards to the availability of uniforms simply are not true.  If anything, it is more
difficult for the average adult member to get a USAF-style uniform then a distinctive one.

As to taping as a concept, take Ned's comments as gospel.

[AngelWings]

Angelwings, you really have no idea what you are talking about, and no experience in regards
to dealing with the issue, so I don't know, exactly, what basis you have for your comments.
Cadets really have no skin in this game until they are 18, and from there, the number affected
is probably statistically zero.

First, no one suggested, necessarily, that the blues are removed.  We simply want one uniform.

Second, your comments in regards to the availability of uniforms simply are not true.  If anything, it is more
difficult for the average adult member to get a USAF-style uniform then a distinctive one.

As to taping as a concept, take Ned's comments as gospel.

You think I have no idea what I'm talking about and that I have no experience? What did I say exactly that would warrant that? Because, rereading my post, all I said was that we should not worry about our uniforms that much because it doesn't affect our capabilities, that BDU's are relatively easy to attain from a surplus store (and adding onto that, evilBay) compared to specific items like BBDU's, Blue flight uniforms, White aviator shirt, CAP polo, and the like. At best, every CAP member could attain the Blazer uniform by shopping at the local JCP.

No one suggested any uniform be removed particularly, however they did suggest that we switch to one uniform able to be worn by all. With relatively good common sense and understanding, one could assume that to mean a switch to corporate uniforms because history has proven to us that the USAF would not want big and fuzzy people wearing their uniforms.

In terms of acquiring BDU's versus BlueDU's, BDU's are much easier to acquire. However, all uniforms can be bought on Vanguard, and 99.999% of members end up shopping there anyways to get their uniform accesories, so it's a moot point to say that it is harder to acquire BDU's than CAP uniform items. The USAF, an organization that orders large contracts of uniforms with even larger surplus, is bound to have more of their uniform parts for sale versus CAP, an aux. organization that doesn't have more than 70,000 people in it, with only 30 something thousand members eligble/likely to wear a CAP distinctive uniform. Websites like BDU.com and Gibson & Barnes both sell CAP and USAF approved uniforms, so the acquiring part isn't likely a concern unless there is a major price difference between the items.

I will say it is easier to acquire a G/W uniform versus a dress blue uniform. Having been collecting military uniforms from 1960 and up for more than 5 years, I will also say that any dress uniform is harder to find than civilian dress clothes. The Aviator shirts, while not exactly abundant, are relatively easy to find and are cheaper than USAF uniform parts.

Having a father that is a Logistics Officer for my squadron, talking to a Supply/Logistics Air Guardsmen, and having been asked to donate extra parts if possible (I opened myself up to it by saying I had extra uniform pieces kicking around my house) for my squadron because of my collecting connections, I do have some (but not much) practical experience in logisitical concerns, and as a C/CC I do have a general knowledge about the difficulty in acquiring properly sized USAF style uniforms without breaking the bank (trying to keep costs down under $100 for both uniforms and accesories). However, I have also noticed that many cadets have willing parents who will, in time, acquire their cadets uniforms. But I don't know, maybe it is a New England thing.

My basis for my comments is a relatively lengthy time collecting, my family and friends who've done logisitical work for quite some time, my small experience with actually being asked to help acquire uniforms due to my knowledge of where to get them cheap, and a few articles I read online about Logistics. That said, I am not going to overdo my experience and knowledge to be anything more than minimum but I do know a thing or two about getting uniforms.

Please correct me if I am wrong, because this is what I believe right now and I'd rather believe something true versus something false.

As for what Ned said, I didn't see that, and I will listen to whatever he says because I think he is CAPTalks eyes and ears inside of national.

[Eclipse]

"Experience" as a collector doesn't really have any relevance to a discussion that involves >new< uniforms for actual use.
However you negate your own points above, so honestly, I don't really know what you're trying to say.

[inactive123]

   The CSU is phased out today, JAN 1, and are impossible to find anywhere. I have never seen anyone ever wear it. That, and it is probably a lot of money to buy and maintain, and you are only going to wear it once in a while. There is no regulations on this uniform that I can find. But, this uniform still makes CAP a professional team with a mission.

[Eclipse]

The CSU is phased out today, JAN 1, and are impossible to find anywhere.

The CSU was phased out over 1 Jan 2012.

[AngelWings]

"Experience" as a collector doesn't really have any relevance to a discussion that involves >new< uniforms for actual use.
However you negate your own points above, so honestly, I don't really know what you're trying to say.

I was basically just saying that while there is some merit to the corporate dress uniform it wouldn't warrant a change. I do write confusingly sometimes, so that's my fault. It doesn't matter anyways. None of us can change the uniforms (well, maybe almost none) and all of this barely grazes the definition of discussion. However, it does match the definition of dreaming. As a wise NCO said to me "You can't argue a mans dreams when he's set on them. You can only share yours and tell him that his sucks or his is good."

[Eclipse]

OK, I literally have no idea what you are talking about.

[AngelWings]

OK, I literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Explain.

[Майор Хаткевич]

OK, I literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Explain.

You're not making any sense, so he doesn't understand what point you are trying to make.

[RogueLeader]

   In every sport I qplay, we all wear the same uniforms. That is, except the coaches. This is the coaches don't need it because it's not appropriate for the task they are completing, coaching, and a more appropriate option is a team t-shirt. Every player on my team wears the same uniform an pads the same colors , including helmets, gloves, and shells for our pants (hockey).Even off the ice, we are to wear dress pants, dress shirt, and team tie with oue team jackets ( when we are not warming up). And when we are warming up, we even have a track suit.So why should CAP be any different. We can all wear the uniform appropriate to ourselves, and to the mission, and still look like a professional team.

Does each member buy their own uniforms, or are they provided by the school?  It's one thing for them to be issued versus bought at personal expense.

[MSG Mac]

The idea of using Body Composition in CAP is ridiculous. It's a pain to administer and takes a lot of time to administer.

We only have to ask three questions of our 18+ members.

Do you meet the H/W standards of CAPM 39-1?
Is the uniform complete, clean, and pressed?
Do you project a professional image while wearing the uniform?

Reminds me of being stationed at MCB Quantico. A Colonel was reaming a Sergeant for being overweight. When he got to the part about "Do you have anything to say, Sergeant"? He reached into his pocket and removed a letter from the Commandant, which stated that Sgt X is a Member of the USMC weightlifting team and was exempt from H/W standards until after the Olympics.

[RiverAux]

CAP should either get serious about this issue and have mandatory weigh-ins on a regular basis for all those that choose to wear AF-style uniforms or convince the AF to drop the height/weight requirements or drop the AF uniform entirely.   

While its true that we've managed to get along for 30+ years relying on the integrity of our members to comply, I think that there is a basis for believing that a lot of people aren't in compliance and the CAP leadership isn't really interested in doing anything about it.  Maybe the AF is willing to continue to put up with that, but I suspect not. 

[Devil Doc]

Who? Has the Authority to just go around weighing people? Like it has been stated before, ive seen people were the blues, that i was skeptikal aout. Now IMO, these People were retired Officers in the Services, or prior service. Should they be exempt from H/W standards? I wrote this Post to see what the opinions of people are about our current status. This is 2013 now, just want CAP to move forward and make everything unique and Uniform. I do know that not every SM wants to wear the Blues. Just seems like this has been an issue that has never been solved. Along with many other things.

[RiverAux]

Well, if they want to push the issue, any commander can ask for a weigh in. 

[Ned]

It really isn't a big deal.

Any commander or activity director can have folks weighed. 

I have done so as an NCSA director.  Every senior and 18+ cadet that wanted to wear USAF-style uniform was required to weigh in during in-processing.  The key is to let folks know ahead of time, provide a little privacy for the process, and have the 39-1 handy as a reference.

Easy-peasy.

It sounds like some squadron commanders are not as consistent as we would like in enforcing the existing (and fairly clear) regulation.  I'm not sure how enacting a new requlation would help that.

Obviously we need to follow our rules and present an professional appearance at all times.  But we also need to remember that the great majority of our members wear the appropriate uniform and wear it well.  In the final analysis, uniforms are a tool to help us to our CAP jobs.  We should probably spend more time worrying about what we do rather than what we wear.

YMMV.

[Devil Doc]

True Ned, i have worries about what CAP does, if i did, i would have never signed the dotted line. I was trying to get a consensus on the uniforms as a whole.

[RiverAux]

It sounds like some squadron commanders are not as consistent as we would like in enforcing the existing (and fairly clear) regulation.  I'm not sure how enacting a new requlation would help that.

Well, the regulation is quite clear, but the mechanism of enforcement is not.  Requiring regular weigh-ins would give commanders a program that they could follow.  As it stands now, I feel confident in saying that every unit has people wearing the AF uniform that probably shouldn't and who probably have never been officially weighed.  Why not?  Because there is no regular weigh in program and a squadron commander is going to be reluctant to selectively enforce this reg by only requiring certain people to be weighed. 

This is the reason we're supposed to look at everyone's 101 card when they check in at mission base and not just those who we think might not have one. 

[Ned]

I guess I am still a little puzzled.  I can only agree that there is no "mandatory weigh in" requirement in the reg.  But neither is there a mandatory Uniform Inspection program that requires commanders to measure every member's insignia every Tuesday night.

Because the regs set the standard, but does not micro-manage the volunteers in how they accomplish the task.  If commanders want/need to have a formal inspection or weigh in, they can just do it.  If they can accomplish the requirement informally by spot-checking and peer assistance, that's fine, too.

Commanders have a tough enough job without higher headquarters micromanaging how they do the difficult job of command.

And if you don't want to appear to single anyone out, simply weigh all the seniors and 18+ cadets who wear the USAF style uniform.  Just let them know ahead of time to avoid unpleasant surprises.

By and large I trust our commanders to get the job done.  It sounds like you may not.