Petition to NHQ

[Stonewall]

Trust me, I love the military and am proud of my accomplishments and experiences.  I have some pretty neat badges and ribbons, but I've grown up through the years and learned that the bling is just that, bling.  Chunks of metal and ribbons made of fabric, often woven in China.  In fact, I got a medal once that still had the "made in China" label on the back.  Yes, it ended up in the Washington Post.

I've been in CAP 25 years and my LES for the military just switched to the 19 year mark.  I don't necessarily agree with Dan on the first page about NO MILITARY RIBBONS, even on the military uniforms in CAP, but I actually could care less about allowing them on any uniform, even the grey things.

When you can get past the ribbons and badges, you'll realize that leadership and volunteerism has nothing to do with the crap you can pin to your uniform.  But like I said, ONCE YOU CAN GET PAST IT.  As a young 20-something I loved wearing my jump wings and deployment ribbons, but I matured at some point and stopped wasting my time worrying about stuff like that.  Hopefully for you, Devil Doc, and manfredvonrichthofen, you'll soon be able to get past this phase and move on to bigger and better things, like leading and teaching.

Use your experiences in the Navy (or other branches) and your experiences in combat, even, to pass on VALUABLE lessons onto our young impressionable cadets.  I often think of a former cadet of mine who graduated PJOC at age 16 who is now a Special Forces Captain with multiple combat tours and sporting a medal with a "V" on it.  Just like when he graduated PJOC, and just like today, you'd never know where he's been or what he's done, unless you really knew him.  As a 16 year old cadet he led by example.  Sure, he wore his uniform properly, but unlike NBB or HMRS, there is no "bling" to show you've accomplished what I consider to be the most physically and mentally demanding NCSA.  Instead, he demonstrated his new found knowledge and experiences through his actions, not through his badges, patches, or ribbon rack.  In fact, as a cadet officer, he NEVER wore his ribbons, except for maybe 3 or 4 times he donned his service coat.

If I can learn something from a 16 year old cadet, so can we all.

[SarDragon]

I don't think it would be any more of a burden than tracking a monthly safety qual...

Holy crap! Any clue what a PITA this really is?

Unless you're volunteering to come to my unit and personally run a PT program, count me out. I've already got enough administrivia to deal with.

Safety reporting is a piece of cake, compared to running a PFT. Been there, done that. I participated in PFTs most of the time I was in the Navy, and doing the testing took the better part of a day, once a quarter.

Most senior squadrons do not have the facilities to be doing a periodic PFT, nor would the idea have any appeal in the first place. Most of the folks in my unit don't wear the AF-style, anyway.

CAP may benefit overall, but I don't see it happening.

[Private Investigator]

Trust me, I love the military and am proud of my accomplishments and experiences.  I have some pretty neat badges and ribbons, but I've grown up through the years and learned that the bling is just that, bling.  Chunks of metal and ribbons made of fabric, often woven in China.  In fact, I got a medal once that still had the "made in China" label on the back.  Yes, it ended up in the Washington Post.

I've been in CAP 25 years and my LES for the military just switched to the 19 year mark.  I don't necessarily agree with Dan on the first page about NO MILITARY RIBBONS, even on the military uniforms in CAP, but I actually could care less about allowing them on any uniform, even the grey things.

When you can get past the ribbons and badges, you'll realize that leadership and volunteerism has nothing to do with the crap you can pin to your uniform.  But like I said, ONCE YOU CAN GET PAST IT.  As a young 20-something I loved wearing my jump wings and deployment ribbons, but I matured at some point and stopped wasting my time worrying about stuff like that.  Hopefully for you, Devil Doc, and manfredvonrichthofen, you'll soon be able to get past this phase and move on to bigger and better things, like leading and teaching.

Use your experiences in the Navy (or other branches) and your experiences in combat, even, to pass on VALUABLE lessons onto our young impressionable cadets.  I often think of a former cadet of mine who graduated PJOC at age 16 who is now a Special Forces Captain with multiple combat tours and sporting a medal with a "V" on it.  Just like when he graduated PJOC, and just like today, you'd never know where he's been or what he's done, unless you really knew him.  As a 16 year old cadet he led by example.  Sure, he wore his uniform properly, but unlike NBB or HMRS, there is no "bling" to show you've accomplished what I consider to be the most physically and mentally demanding NCSA.  Instead, he demonstrated his new found knowledge and experiences through his actions, not through his badges, patches, or ribbon rack.  In fact, as a cadet officer, he NEVER wore his ribbons, except for maybe 3 or 4 times he donned his service coat.

If I can learn something from a 16 year old cadet, so can we all.

+1 thank you sir  :clap:

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I don't think it would be any more of a burden than tracking a monthly safety qual...

Holy crap! Any clue what a PITA this really is?

Unless you're volunteering to come to my unit and personally run a PT program, count me out. I've already got enough administrivia to deal with.

Safety reporting is a piece of cake, compared to running a PFT. Been there, done that. I participated in PFTs most of the time I was in the Navy, and doing the testing took the better part of a day, once a quarter.

Most senior squadrons do not have the facilities to be doing a periodic PFT, nor would the idea have any appeal in the first place. Most of the folks in my unit don't wear the AF-style, anyway.

CAP may benefit overall, but I don't see it happening.

PT exams are easy as snot, and don't take more than an hour and a half, if that. I do them for cadets, and it's easy. I I did them in the Army, piece of cake. If it's hard to do, then stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

[SarDragon]

I don't think it would be any more of a burden than tracking a monthly safety qual...

Holy crap! Any clue what a PITA this really is?

Unless you're volunteering to come to my unit and personally run a PT program, count me out. I've already got enough administrivia to deal with.

Safety reporting is a piece of cake, compared to running a PFT. Been there, done that. I participated in PFTs most of the time I was in the Navy, and doing the testing took the better part of a day, once a quarter.

Most senior squadrons do not have the facilities to be doing a periodic PFT, nor would the idea have any appeal in the first place. Most of the folks in my unit don't wear the AF-style, anyway.

CAP may benefit overall, but I don't see it happening.

PT exams are easy as snot, and don't take more than an hour and a half, if that. I do them for cadets, and it's easy. I I did them in the Army, piece of cake. If it's hard to do, then stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

I'm not trying to reinvent anything over and above the new procedures, relative to current ones, that this program would introduce.

That's an hour and a half that SMs will not have available to be doing their regular squadron functions, in addition to the added administrivia. PT is built into the cadet program. That is not the case for SM PD.

I haven't checked recently, but I'd guess that at 63, I'm close to the median age for my squadron. I looked at the Navy requirements for my age, and I'm confident that I could pass, but other folks in the unit might not.

I think this is a solution looking for a problem.

YMMV.

[Devil Doc]

I like to wear mine to show people this aint my first rodeo. i do understand that it may be unfair. i am only 26, so maybe it is mt young age. i. v
ery modest when it comes to my service, i dont go around gloating abour my time in the service

[Al Sayre]

I don't think it would be any more of a burden than tracking a monthly safety qual...

Holy crap! Any clue what a PITA this really is?

Unless you're volunteering to come to my unit and personally run a PT program, count me out. I've already got enough administrivia to deal with.

Safety reporting is a piece of cake, compared to running a PFT. Been there, done that. I participated in PFTs most of the time I was in the Navy, and doing the testing took the better part of a day, once a quarter.

Most senior squadrons do not have the facilities to be doing a periodic PFT, nor would the idea have any appeal in the first place. Most of the folks in my unit don't wear the AF-style, anyway.

CAP may benefit overall, but I don't see it happening.

PT exams are easy as snot, and don't take more than an hour and a half, if that. I do them for cadets, and it's easy. I I did them in the Army, piece of cake. If it's hard to do, then stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

I'm not trying to reinvent anything over and above the new procedures, relative to current ones, that this program would introduce.

That's an hour and a half that SMs will not have available to be doing their regular squadron functions, in addition to the added administrivia. PT is built into the cadet program. That is not the case for SM PD.

I haven't checked recently, but I'd guess that at 63, I'm close to the median age for my squadron. I looked at the Navy requirements for my age, and I'm confident that I could pass, but other folks in the unit might not.

I think this is a solution looking for a problem.

YMMV.

One other issue you're going to have with SM's is disabilities.  How are you going to track who is exempt from what?  Now that you collected the info on the disabilities to exempt them, how are you going to protect that info.  IIRC that would fall under HIPPA.  FAA and my Flight surgeon say I'm in good enough shape to fly, and the VA says I'm XX% disabled how are you going to reconcile those facts?

[Stonewall]

I like to wear mine to show people this aint my first rodeo. i do understand that it may be unfair. i am only 26, so maybe it is mt young age. i. very modest when it comes to my service, i dont go around gloating abour my time in the service

I understand your desire, as a 26 year old, to be accepted by the older senior members.  Likewise, I understand your desire for instant recognition by the cadets as someone who has been there done that (BTDT).

As a gun toter in DC where I worked to protect two different presidential appointees all over the globe, I worked for a former Special Forces guy, who happens to be a 35+ year member of CAP too.  He said "I don't care what you've done, where you've been, or what medals you have, I only care about what you can today, here, in this job."

From someone just 15 years old than you, take it from me, it's much cooler and much more gratifying, to be doing something with cadets, usually in the field, where you show them something high speed (for you, a medical skill maybe?) and they say "[darn], Doc, how did you learn that?", and you reply with, "well, I was a Corpsman in the Navy and assigned to the Marines in Iraq where I learned a few things like this..."  Then they look at you with their eyes open and that facial expression that just says "WOW".

Again, I DO understand where you're coming from.  Try being a 20 year old senior member as an E-3 in the Army and gaining acceptance from the BTDTs, both in CAP and the military. To them, I was just a snot nosed PFC trying to be a badass to cadets just a year or two younger than me.  I wore my jump wings for the same reason you want to wear your ribbons, to show that it's not your first day in a military uniform.  I get it.  And I'm not going to tell you NOT to be excited about it.  But I am looking forward to that day when the light switches on and you say (much like I did) "[darn], that Stonewall A-hole on CAP Talk was right, this bling stuff IS irrelevant..."   

[Майор Хаткевич]

The easiest, and most common suggestion is to simply make a "I served" ribbon, that is CAP specific and can be worn on any CAP uniform. As others said, while I appreciate your service, I did not serve, and have ZERO understanding behind your ribbons. TELL me about what you did, show me some cool stuff, but the ribbons on a CAP uniform mean nothing to me as we lack a common reference.

[Garibaldi]

Kind of reminds me of 2 sayings I've heard:

"That was yesterday. What have you done today?"

and

"That's all well and good, sonny, but this here's the Fleet."

[Jon Knapp]

Use your experiences in the Navy (or other branches) and your experiences in combat, even, to pass on VALUABLE lessons onto our young impressionable cadets.  I often think of a former cadet of mine who graduated PJOC at age 16 who is now a Special Forces Captain with multiple combat tours and sporting a medal with a "V" on it.  Just like when he graduated PJOC, and just like today, you'd never know where he's been or what he's done, unless you really knew him.  As a 16 year old cadet he led by example.  Sure, he wore his uniform properly, but unlike NBB or HMRS, there is no "bling" to show you've accomplished what I consider to be the most physically and mentally demanding NCSA.  Instead, he demonstrated his new found knowledge and experiences through his actions, not through his badges, patches, or ribbon rack.  In fact, as a cadet officer, he NEVER wore his ribbons, except for maybe 3 or 4 times he donned his service coat.

If I can learn something from a 16 year old cadet, so can we all.

That sounds like my birth dad, US Army Special Forces KIA Iraq 2003.  He said that he didn't care about the ribbons he wore, and in fact he would rather not wear them, because it reminded him of the friends that he had lost in combat.  He continued to say that they were killed, he wasn't, he got some neat ribbons they didn't...he said it didn't seem to make since.

I am a Hawk Grad and have staffed their winter school, but I do not agree at all with their attitudes.  I only went to learn leadership skills in a stressful environment, and I will say I did that. 

Please do not turn this into a Hawk, NBB, and any other activity bashing

Thanks

[Devil Doc]

I served Ribbon sounds Legit. Now lets dwell on the idea for 3 years, take 5 years to desgin them, then take 2 to pahse them in, lol.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I served Ribbon sounds Legit. Now lets dwell on the idea for 3 years, take 5 years to desgin them, then take 2 to pahse them in, lol.

The ribbon would have to be solid grey.

Distinguishing marks for each Service (in the form of each Service's seal) would be a device on the ribbon.

[Stonewall]

Please do not turn this into a Hawk, NBB, and any other activity bashing

I am Hawk alumni as well.  I wouldn't bash ANY CAP activity either way.  But I do think more highly of some than others 

[arajca]

I served Ribbon sounds Legit. Now lets dwell on the idea for 3 years, take 5 years to desgin them, then take 2 to pahse them in, lol.

It's already been submitted.

[Devil Doc]

It's already been submitted.
[/quote]

A I Served Ribbon? When was it submitted, and when will we hear the results on this?

[arajca]

A proposal was submitted a couple years ago. I figure we'll hear around 2020. Unless SOMEONE can spill the beans early.

[Private Investigator]

A proposal was submitted a couple years ago. I figure we'll hear around 2020. Unless SOMEONE can spill the beans early.

I am thinking the "timeline" would put it about the same time as the ABU phase-in, in 2024.   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I am thinking the "timeline" would put it about the same time as the ABU phase-in, in 2024.   

In the year 2525 by Zager & Evans