Petition to NHQ

[jimmydeanno]

A lot of times seniors that lack something to do have a leader who hasn't told them what they need to accomplish.  Many times they are just waiting for someone to tell them what to do, other times they don't have anything to do because they don't want something to do.  There is plenty to do, and if our seniors actual believe in the missions of our organization, they can see where there is always something that can be done to advance them in our communities. 

Even if you are the transportation officer, and you've already submitted the CAPF 73 for the month, there are still ways to be productive and move your unit forward.

[abdsp51]

Most SMs want to do just one thing and that's that.  When I decided to rejoin I told my unit I wated to just do CP, however I have taught basic skills for an ES class we had a few months ago.  I'll teach the skills but that's it for ES for me. 

[Devil Doc]

I am trying to give them ideas of what to do. I am an ES, DR, DHS and Medical Nut. We already have and ES officer and DR officer and an DHS officer. So I am doing Supply, seems fun enough?

[spacecommand]

Just because you have one ES or AE or CP officer does not mean they has to do the entire job by themselves.  You lack an airplane, but do you have a ground team?  Senior Members and Cadets are intricate to ground team operations and there's plenty of positions that don't require an airplane from mission radio operator strait up to incident commander that your SM's can train for.

On cadet side, leadership/character development/drug demand reduction/aerospace just to name some.  Additional squadron staff include, personnel, recruiting, public affairs, finance etc need folks too.    Many of these staff positions do not require them to be in a command role.

[abdsp51]

Just because you have one ES or AE or CP officer does not mean they has to do the entire job by themselves.  You lack an airplane, but do you have a ground team?  Senior Members and Cadets are intricate to ground team operations and there's plenty of positions that don't require an airplane from mission radio operator strait up to incident commander that your SM's can train for.

On cadet side, leadership/character development/drug demand reduction/aerospace just to name some.  Additional squadron staff include, personnel, recruiting, public affairs, finance etc need folks too.    Many of these staff positions do not require them to be in a command role.

Exactly there is something someone could do.  There is more I would like to do in my unit but my time in the area is growing short due to my upcoming PCS.

[SarDragon]

Most SMs want to do just one thing and that's that. When I decided to rejoin I told my unit I wated to just do CP, however I have taught basic skills for an ES class we had a few months ago.  I'll teach the skills but that's it for ES for me.

Then I don't want them in my unit, unless that one thing is part of a PD track. If all you want to do is fly the airplane, and not help out with a staff position, then you are hurting the unit more than helping it. The same goes for the MOs, MSs, etc.

In my unit, we try to get new members enrolled in a specialty track ASAP, and aggressively encourage them to get at least a Technician rating as soon as they can. Then they are assigned as at least as an assistant somewhere on the org chart, with an expectation that they actually learn something about the job, and help out.

[abdsp51]

One thing I have learned being in CP is it encompasses alot of admin work as well. Even now I am considering pursuing another specialty track.  But I desire to get as far as I can in CP as possible.

[jimmydeanno]

I think something is wrong here.  Am I still on CT?  It seems we have taken a uniform thread and turned it into a discussion about professional development.  I'm worried.

[Critical AOA]

I think something is wrong here.  Am I still on CT?  It seems we have taken a uniform thread and turned it into a discussion about professional development.  I'm worried.

Ha!  Just the opposite of what normally happens.  That is so funny.

[Devil Doc]

YA, my bad, I hijacked my own thread.

[BigShu]

the Army went away from HW standards as well... For the most part. They have HW, but they go on BMI more. I met HW standards by a long shot. I had to be taped for BMI, almost every time, because I was underweight. I also knew of a few in my unit that couldn't pass HW, to save their life! But, they Were not fat at all. They had like two percent body fat, but had so much muscle they Were very over weight. One was about 25lbs over. He was Massive, he did competitions a lot. But the Army also did, when I was in, the pass/fail Pt standard, if you failed two in a row you went to remedial Pt, and you had to pass the next test or they could give you the boot.

I think this is the same sort of thing they should do, in CAP, have a PT test, pass it and all good, fail it three times and wear corporates until you can.

I'd be all for that. I can meet all the published PT standards, and I'm built like a linebacker, but H/W or BMI have me overweight by quite a few pounds. I'm dilligently trying to get down, but a fitness based approach would be a lot easier to deal with. Don't get me started on the grooming standard. Stand closer to the razor for one thing, lose the ponytail for the other.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Shu, making tape is as easy as flexing your neck as hard as you can along with your shoulders. The wider your neck the better your BMI. It's an easy way around it, which is Why I am more for a PT test as well. It doesn't even have to be extremely strenuous, just show that you can still make an effort. Granted exceptions should be made for the handicapped that can't run or do pushups or sit ups. And those that are too old to perform a Pt test, should be given an exemption. It wouldn't be hard to implement either, we already have a Pt program and method for recording. All it would take is about a week of determining what the standards should be.

But you should have to shave and cut your hair to wear any uniform if you ask me.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I just thought of something...wouldn't a direct petition to NHQ be really jumping the chain?

That is, unless, you were to use the "Ask The Commander" feature on E-Services.

[SarDragon]

the Army went away from HW standards as well... For the most part. They have HW, but they go on BMI more. I met HW standards by a long shot. I had to be taped for BMI, almost every time, because I was underweight. I also knew of a few in my unit that couldn't pass HW, to save their life! But, they Were not fat at all. They had like two percent body fat, but had so much muscle they Were very over weight. One was about 25lbs over. He was Massive, he did competitions a lot. But the Army also did, when I was in, the pass/fail Pt standard, if you failed two in a row you went to remedial Pt, and you had to pass the next test or they could give you the boot.

I think this is the same sort of thing they should do, in CAP, have a PT test, pass it and all good, fail it three times and wear corporates until you can.

I'd be all for that. I can meet all the published PT standards, and I'm built like a linebacker, but H/W or BMI have me overweight by quite a few pounds. I'm dilligently trying to get down, but a fitness based approach would be a lot easier to deal with. Don't get me started on the grooming standard. Stand closer to the razor for one thing, lose the ponytail for the other.

I have spent my entire life having a Navy CPO of some sort or another influence the nature of my hair style and facial hair. The most recent (ATC M. Bowles, USN, Ret) has more liberal standards than any of the prior Chiefs, including PHC J. Bowles, USN, Ret.

These days I grow it as long as I want, and wear the appropriate CAP uniform for my current appearance.

As for PT testing, who sets the standards? What specific tests do you use? What's the max age? What happens when someone fails? As someone who was involved in the USN PFT for 20+ years, I can tell you that there is a significant administrative burden involved. Who is going to administer this new program? What if someone doesn't want to participate?

Today, our members pretty much self police their physical fitness (or lack thereof), and only participate in those activities that they are capable of. I don't see a really big need for SM PT testing.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

If they don't want to participate, then they wear the corporate uniform.

[SarDragon]

What about the rest of my Qs? I asked six; you answered one.

[PHall]

Dave, you're making sense, you know that's not allowed....

[SarDragon]

Stuff happens. 

[BigShu]

What about the rest of my Qs? I asked six; you answered one.

I don't think it would be any more of a burden than tracking a monthly safety qual. There's PT in the cadet program, yes? So there's already a mechanism and protocol for fitness testing. As far as the tests to use, how about pushups and situps and a timed run/jog. The last time I looked, the military fitness standards went out to a reasonable age. Let's say 65, same as FAA ATP mandatory retirement. We make an allowance already on the H/W chart, so do something similar to the mil standards, a little reduction to the required reps/time, to allow for our lack of true military bearing...
If someone fails, they retest within 30 days. Fail twice, wear corporate uniform until a passing test is achieved. I only counted 4 questions: Who sets the standard, the DoD (with modifier because we're weak wannabes), what tests, again, use the old standbys, pushups, situps, and some kind of cardio/endurance test, Max age, 65, same as PIC FAA limit, And failure leads to retest, second failure leads to corporate uni until fitness standard can be demonstrated. I guess your comment about it being burdensome to administer is a question too, so I say use the cadet protocol for testing, or come up with a new one.
We spend a lot of time worrying about trivia like "will we get ABU's" and almost zero time thinking about things that actually might have an effect on our missions and how we're seen by both the AF and the public. Showing that we care about our fitness and appearance is at least as important as whether or not polo shirts qualify as a uniform choice.

[EMT-83]

I don't think it would be any more of a burden than tracking a monthly safety qual...

Holy crap! Any clue what a PITA this really is?

Unless you're volunteering to come to my unit and personally run a PT program, count me out. I've already got enough administrivia to deal with.