TIG Problem

[lordmonar]

really? My personnel officer checks my dates & faxes them for me. Do they record them in eSErvices? I don't believe I've noticed that.

Not 100% sure about E-services....but back when I was a Cadet Squadron CC...I would just E-mail the 52 and then check the CAPWATCH down load to see if they had updated it.  They would also send a return E-mail saying that it was done, if I requested it.  I'm not sure of the relationship between e-services and CAPWATCH, I "assume" (and you know how dangerous that can be) that they are the same databases or are linked in some way.

[DNall]

You know, thinking about it though, I think faxing it is probably easier then scan & email. I would be happy to see the ability to scan and submit inside eServices, for the 52s & other documentation for adult promotions, ES awards, etc.

[lordmonar]

You know, thinking about it though, I think faxing it is probably easier then scan & email. I would be happy to see the ability to scan and submit inside eServices, for the 52s & other documentation for adult promotions, ES awards, etc.

You don't need to scan it.  Just type <Signed> in the signature blocks.  If it requires extra signatures....you document that by forwarding the E-mail.

Did this a lot of times.  National does not need the actual signatures.

[DNall]

Why do they make such a big stink about sending in signature cards then. I swear! Have to talk to my Personnel officer about doing this in the future. I'm sure he'll apreciate it, thx.

[lordmonar]

Why do they make such a big stink about sending in signature cards then. I swear! Have to talk to my Personnel officer about doing this in the future. I'm sure he'll apreciate it, thx.

The signature card is for the AFDIL courses....the USAF requires those not National.

[DNall]

Actually your TCO is not the TCO of record for AFIADL, that's the one person at Wing. Plus you have to have sig cards for Sq CC & Deputy Cdr for cadets, those don't have anything to do with AU.

[lordmonar]

Well you know how bureaucracies are.  They did something 20 years ago for some good reason.....the reason went away....but the rules say you got to have signature cards.  And I don't know how you do things in TX...but here in Neveda....we do not go through our wing TCO.  AFIDL sends things directly to the squadron.  Again different bureaucracies.

[AlphaSigOU]

Well you know how bureaucracies are.  They did something 20 years ago for some good reason.....the reason went away....but the rules say you got to have signature cards.  And I don't know how you do things in TX...but here in Neveda....we do not go through our wing TCO.  AFIDL sends things directly to the squadron.  Again different bureaucracies.

In Texas, 'Af-a-diddle' sends the tests to Wing HQ and then they're forwarded to the squadron.

[RogueLeader]

Well you know how bureaucracies are.  They did something 20 years ago for some good reason.....the reason went away....but the rules say you got to have signature cards.  And I don't know how you do things in TX...but here in Neveda....we do not go through our wing TCO.  AFIDL sends things directly to the squadron.  Again different bureaucracies.

In Texas, 'Af-a-diddle' sends the tests to Wing HQ and then they're forwarded to the squadron.

Thats how its done in Iowa too.

[SAR-EMT1]

IL has it sent to Wing then Group, then group has to call the SQ /CCs to find out which unit it belongs to. It would be simpler to just have it sent to Sq.

[davedove]

Why do they make such a big stink about sending in signature cards then. I swear! Have to talk to my Personnel officer about doing this in the future. I'm sure he'll apreciate it, thx.

There are still a couple of forms that require original signatures, mainly the application forms.  Other than that, it's mainly the technology has surpassed the requirements that haven't been changed yet.

[DNall]

I'm all for making things faster & easier, but you very well know there's sig blocks on things for a reason & if you can skip right over them or just put /signed/ then what's the point. You know very well that someone with a little less integrity could abuse that... and someone eventually will get caught at it & screw everything up. I'm just not sure they've perfected this paperless thing yet, not till they can automate documentation & approvals in  more user-friendly version of eServices... Sorry, I know this is all off topic, but it's a pet peave of I think just about everyone.

[lordmonar]

I'm all for making things faster & easier, but you very well know there's sig blocks on things for a reason & if you can skip right over them or just put /signed/ then what's the point. You know very well that someone with a little less integrity could abuse that... and someone eventually will get caught at it & screw everything up. I'm just not sure they've perfected this paperless thing yet, not till they can automate documentation & approvals in  more user-friendly version of eServices... Sorry, I know this is all off topic, but it's a pet peave of I think just about everyone.

It can be abused now.  Like anyone at national or wing know all the signatures in my chain of command.

[DNall]

Sure, but you'd have to actually forge it at that point, and there's a sig card somewhere on them. I don't mind it being electronic, but it should be better fixed in eServices to deal with that (and the supporting documentation).

[lordmonar]

Sure, but you'd have to actually forge it at that point, and there's a sig card somewhere on them. I don't mind it being electronic, but it should be better fixed in eServices to deal with that (and the supporting documentation).

We any form that need signatures hare supposed to be E-mailed to each level in the chain. So if you wanted to "forge" and electronic promotion recommendation you would have to break into several different E-mail servers.

Even with E-services....it would still end up back in your commander action items for approval.

So either way.....the new paperless systems are just as secure as the old paper trail.

[DNall]

Actually it's quite easy to make an email "appear" to be from one person or another w/o breaking into their acct. And ypu can do it all anonyomously & cover your tracks pretty well.

eServices is arguably a much better way to do it, just with being able to upload documentation attached to the action requests.

The problem right now is we have to do either paper & email, or paper & eServices, or eServices & email, or all three to get one action thru. That's a lot of extra effort.

[SJFedor]

Here's a question since it bears some semblance on myself soon...

I turn 21 in a few weeks, and as an SFO with my TIG, I'm elligible for Capt. However, eServices still shows me as a SMWOG, elligible for 2d Lt. Would the best way for my promotion to go through be to fill out a Paper F2 with all the corresponding information as to why I'm going from SM to Capt as a duty performance?

It really would be nice if National kept track of the FO grades, make a lot less of a headache when transition time comes.

[AlphaSigOU]

Here's a question since it bears some semblance on myself soon...

I turn 21 in a few weeks, and as an SFO with my TIG, I'm elligible for Capt. However, eServices still shows me as a SMWOG, elligible for 2d Lt. Would the best way for my promotion to go through be to fill out a Paper F2 with all the corresponding information as to why I'm going from SM to Capt as a duty performance?

It really would be nice if National kept track of the FO grades, make a lot less of a headache when transition time comes.

Just to be on the safe side, I would go ahead and send in the Form 2, since FO/SFO/TFO grades are not tracked. The online duty promotion system, if I remember correctly only works for members over 21. But I could be wrong...

[SarDragon]

Here's a question since it bears some semblance on myself soon...

I turn 21 in a few weeks, and as an SFO with my TIG, I'm elligible for Capt. However, eServices still shows me as a SMWOG, elligible for 2d Lt. Would the best way for my promotion to go through be to fill out a Paper F2 with all the corresponding information as to why I'm going from SM to Capt as a duty performance?

It really would be nice if National kept track of the FO grades, make a lot less of a headache when transition time comes.

Just to be on the safe side, I would go ahead and send in the Form 2, since FO/SFO/TFO grades are not tracked. The online duty promotion system, if I remember correctly only works for members over 21. But I could be wrong...

You are, AFAIK, correct. I might be inclined, as a Pers type, to wait until after you turn 21 and do your F12, then see what shows up in MIMS, and then proceed accordingly.

Looking at a F2, this might end up being a two part process - a Section 2 SPECIAL APPOINTMENT/PROMOTION to whatever you are entitled to from the cadet program, and then a Duty Performance promotion to Capt.

Or it can all be done with a paper form and the appropriate entries in the Remarks section. I've never had to do one of these before.

YMMV.

[DNall]

ain't that complicated.
1) fill out the online form from NHQ
2) Email to Gp & Wg CC, state info copy w/ remarks, formal action on eServices
3) submit on eServices.

If it gets turned back, which it shouldn't, then you know who you need to call/email & explain it to.