Uniform visability

DNall · February 25, 2007, 10:06:03 PM

That vest is expensive & horrible looking. A simple sew on reflective pannel would be a nice addition to Vanguard. I understand the logic behind the website on there, but I think it might be a bit much & too busy. I'd stick with something more like you see on LE raid vests/jackets.

Couple other directions you can go. AF universally uses those stupid reflective belts. I'm sure we could get a pile of them surplus from them. (like this funny interpretation)

Reflective T-shirts are expensive, and can look kind stupid:
http://www.chairforce.com/fun/funny-photos/hires/usaf-fitness-model/fitness-model.htm

DNall · February 25, 2007, 10:11:48 PM

or vest in the search box at a site like galls.com & see what you come up with.

MIKE · February 25, 2007, 10:39:27 PM

I kinda like the reflective belts.

I would rather use them than the vests in some instances. I think they could be particularly useful for formations and drill in the evening... Can even use them as a position identifier, depending on color and how worn.

http://reflect-a-life.com/default.asp

DNall · February 25, 2007, 10:53:41 PM

I tell ya I'd rather sew a reflective panel & strips onto my gear than wear a vest, and I would like to have reflective belts in the toolkit for both ES & non-ES instances. Particularly my guys marching around after dark in an area where there are both cars coming off a blind corner & sometimes turning props (just love how our airport set that up). Anyway, I'd like it if the reg for ES gear provided more latitude to create a professional appearance w/ hi-vis.

Hawk200 · February 26, 2007, 12:58:34 AM

Quote from: DNall on February 25, 2007, 10:53:41 PM
Anyway, I'd like it if the reg for ES gear provided more latitude to create a professional appearance w/ hi-vis.

One major problem with that line of thinking DNall....

Hawk200 · February 26, 2007, 01:06:07 AM

Quote from: MIKE on February 25, 2007, 10:39:27 PM
I kinda like the reflective belts. I would rather use them than the vests in some instances. I think they could be particularly useful for formations and drill in the evening... Can even use them as a position identifier, depending on color and how worn.

http://reflect-a-life.com/default.asp

Thanks, MIKE. Been meaning to order from them, seems like forever, just kept forgetting about it.

MIKE · February 26, 2007, 01:09:03 AM

Are they the same company that supplies the military? It sure looks like it.

Hawk200 · February 26, 2007, 01:14:01 AM

Quote from: MIKE on February 26, 2007, 01:09:03 AM
Are they the same company that supplies the military? It sure looks like it.

Yes, they are. I ordered some of those when I was still out in California back in '93. I saw a guy from the flightline had one around his waist, so I walked up to him, and asked to look at it. Called the company, ordered from them.

Those ones I got are still going strong, no fading , and they've held up to a lot of abuse.

Matt · February 26, 2007, 06:31:45 PM

Quote from: MIKE on February 25, 2007, 10:39:27 PM
I kinda like the reflective belts. I would rather use them than the vests in some instances. I think they could be particularly useful for formations and drill in the evening... Can even use them as a position identifier, depending on color and how worn.

http://reflect-a-life.com/default.asp

Let us not forget: The History of the Reflective Belt (PowerPoint Slide Show)

desert rat · February 26, 2007, 06:38:50 PM

As far as drilling I think these are great, but so is flashlights or a well lit parking lot.

As far as ground team missions I would want the most visibility you can get. The orange vests and hats allow air crews to see the ground team better. It also allows others on the ground see them. This is not just for night time visibility, it is for daytime as well (mostly day for ground teams). The orange is great in a snow environment, or a desert.

Hawk200 · February 26, 2007, 07:57:48 PM

Quote from: desert rat on February 26, 2007, 06:38:50 PMAs far as ground team missions I would want the most visibility you can get. The orange vests and hats allow air crews to see the ground team better. It also allows others on the ground see them. This is not just for night time visibility, it is for daytime as well (mostly day for ground teams). The orange is great in a snow environment, or a desert.

The vests that Reflect-A-Life has are nicer, and I would guess a little more visible. And they're the same price as the ones at Vanguard.

DNall · February 26, 2007, 09:56:43 PM

I've had less success with orange over scrub. My view in general is it's very difficult to make a ground team on foot in the field (usually woods) regardless of what they are wearing, and frankly is not necessary. If it were, that's what the signal panels are for. What actually works is radio & a GPS. It's more important to ID vehicles, and to be able to mark & relay GPS from air to ground or vice versa. The only time I've found any hi-vis gear helpful was hooking up with another ground team in the field at dusk, and at that point the wistle or a good shout would have done just as well.

The stuff on vanguard is too expensive, hence won't be widely purchased. The stuff on Galls & some other similiar sites are more resonable, as is walmart, home depot, or a lot of contruction supply places.

JohnKachenmeister · February 28, 2007, 01:48:46 AM

Actually, I think DNall is right. I've been a GTL and aircrew on missions and exercises, and you could dress your ground team up like Santa Claus and they would still be hard to spot from 1000 feet up.

I was leading a team on an exercise in OH and we were supposed to meet with an aircraft. We stopped at a prominent road junction on the edge of a town that was on the aero chart. We parked the CAP van, and I dismounted the team, all wearing the orange vests. We were in radio contact with the pilot, and continuously broadcast our position relative to the aircraft as he circled, looking for us. (We're at your 9 o'clock... now we're at your 8 o'clock... Your left turn just put us back at your 9...) We also used orange smoke. It took several passes for him to find us. I didn't use flares due to the fire danger. Mirror flashes finally did the trick.

But what would we have done if the mission had happened on a cloudy day?

floridacyclist · February 28, 2007, 05:09:28 PM

Not sure where our vests came from....

lordmonar · February 28, 2007, 06:11:15 PM

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on February 28, 2007, 01:48:46 AM
But what would we have done if the mission had happened on a cloudy day?

Strobe light! I carry one for just that purpose.

LtCol Hooligan · February 28, 2007, 07:33:07 PM

Quote from: floridacyclist on February 28, 2007, 05:09:28 PM
Not sure where our vests came from....

Why is he wearing his cover on the flight line....

floridacyclist · February 28, 2007, 08:10:43 PM

I would presume to keep from being sunburned.

Hawk200 · February 28, 2007, 08:49:02 PM

Quote from: lordmonar on February 28, 2007, 06:11:15 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on February 28, 2007, 01:48:46 AM
But what would we have done if the mission had happened on a cloudy day?

Strobe light! I carry one for just that purpose.

I was thinking that, but didn't know if it was a practical idea or not. May have to invest in a few Firefly's for the squadron.

floridacyclist · February 28, 2007, 09:24:31 PM

Maybe have the team lay out their panels?

Some of those cheap disposable ponchos can be pretty visible too.

I guess lighting an oil tanker truck on fire would not be acceptable huh?

JohnKachenmeister · February 28, 2007, 09:50:14 PM

Quote from: majludlow on February 28, 2007, 07:33:07 PM
Quote from: floridacyclist on February 28, 2007, 05:09:28 PM
Not sure where our vests came from....

Why is he wearing his cover on the flight line....

I'm tempted to point out that a bush hat would have a chin strap to prevent prop wash from blowing it away, but we've had 7 pages so far on that thread, and I don't want to go there anymore.