Uniform for this weekends Parade

[bosshawk]

Saw a photo in the Fresno Bee of a Navy Full Lt in his whites, grinning like a Cheshire cat.  Funny that they didn't mention the CAP cadets in the parade.  Otherwise, not a peep:  the mainstream media must have missed the event(sarcasm).

[mwewing]

I have mixed feelings on CAP participation in such parades. I think demonstrating to the gay community that we would welcome their talents in our ranks is beneficial. We can invite diverse people to our organization without necessarily supporting each and every cause a particular group advocates. However, it can be very difficult to make this distinction in a heavily political environment such as a gay pride parade.

I would also assume that while this squadron is participating as a unit, attendance was in no way required. I would never be in favor of forcing members to ignore their individual values and attend an event they were opposed to. Should any recruits come of such an effort, their sexual orientation would be irrelevant to the business of Civil Air Patrol. At that point you respect each member as an individual and focus on our missions, leaving out any of the personal differences.

I'm sure the other parade go-ers will love our young cadets in uniform.

Sir/Ma'am, you should be ashamed of yourself. If this comment was meant to be funny, you failed miserably. If you meant this as a serious statement then your ignorance must be enlightened. Pedophilia and Homosexuality are two very different things, and to claim that gay and lesbian people target children is completely untrue. Pedophiles target children. Gay and lesbian people are simply attracted to people of the same sex... NOT children. Comments like that, joke or otherwise, only give credence to bigots who blatantly discriminate against homosexuals.

[Extremepredjudice]

Woah, chill out sir. That isn't what he meant. Tossing cadets into a political situation like this isn't a good idea. LGBT rights is a very touchy subject. It isn't a place for CAP. 

[CAP4117]

I read it the same way mwewing did. I found it to be a highly offensive, unprofessional, and completely inaccurate statement that has no business being posted on a CAP message board.

Personally, I feel the parade was a political event, and I feel quite strongly that CAP should remain apolitical.
I certainly have my political opinions and love discussing politics, but I also appreciate that I can go to my squadron and know that my political beliefs simply don't matter. I can be on the opposite end of the spectrum from any one of my fellow members, but I don't know about it, because it doesn't matter and we don't discuss it. It's nice to still have a place not divided by politics. It would be a shame if CAP were to lose that. Let's focus on our missions instead of how we could be divided.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I read it the same way mwewing did. I found it to be a highly offensive, unprofessional, and completely inaccurate statement that has no business being posted on a CAP message board.

Personally, I feel the parade was a political event, and I feel quite strongly that CAP should remain apolitical.
I certainly have my political opinions and love discussing politics, but I also appreciate that I can go to my squadron and know that my political beliefs simply don't matter. I can be on the opposite end of the spectrum from any one of my fellow members, but I don't know about it, because it doesn't matter and we don't discuss it. It's nice to still have a place not divided by politics. It would be a shame if CAP were to lose that. Let's focus on our missions instead of how we could be divided.

I can see it now. GLR-IL-XXXR and GLR-IL-XXXD.

[CAP4117]

That would certainly make wing conferences "interesting" 

[mwewing]

I agree that Gay Pride parades are very political in nature, and I agree that CAP should remain apolitical. However, most parades I have seen in recent years have been extremely political. The majority of floats and participating groups in our local Memorial Day and 4th of July parades were political candidates, and many of the sames ones who participated in our local Gay Pride parade. The participation of politicians and action groups didn't stop us from marching in holiday parades. I am not saying we should all run right out to the nearest hot button issue, but the lines of political and not are blurry at best.

It may also be worth mentioning that the Air Force, along with numerous federal agencies, participated in a GLBT career fair recently in Metro Detroit. Now this was not a parade and the sole focus was employment and recruitment. However, it does signify that the military is reaching out to the GLBT community now that DADT has been repealed.

I do feel that CAP should be doing the same. I think there is a tremendous amount of untapped talent. I also think it brings diversity to our organization, something we claim at least to value. Beyond wanting to ensure that any law abiding citizen feels welcome to join our ranks and contribute to our missions, sexual orientation should be irrelevant. The questions is, how do we do this without jumping into a divisive political issue? There should clearly be some guidance from high levels of CAP on this matter.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I do feel that CAP should be doing the same. I think there is a tremendous amount of untapped talent. I also think it brings diversity to our organization, something we claim at least to value. Beyond wanting to ensure that any law abiding citizen feels welcome to join our ranks and contribute to our missions, sexual orientation should be irrelevant. The questions is, how do we do this without jumping into a divisive political issue? There should clearly be some guidance from high levels of CAP on this matter.

We don't need to do anything or worry about anything. Sexual Orientation was not an issue in CAP.

[Persona non grata]

Maybe one dat they wont have to be political at all......

[Walkman]

I do feel that CAP should be doing the same. I think there is a tremendous amount of untapped talent. I also think it brings diversity to our organization, something we claim at least to value. Beyond wanting to ensure that any law abiding citizen feels welcome to join our ranks and contribute to our missions, sexual orientation should be irrelevant. The questions is, how do we do this without jumping into a divisive political issue? There should clearly be some guidance from high levels of CAP on this matter.

We don't need to do anything or worry about anything. Sexual Orientation was not an issue in CAP.

That's a point that WE understand from within, but wonder how many good people passed us over because of DADT in the past. They may have assumed that because of our AF affiliation that they weren't welcome. I surprise a lot of people that are older than 35, or overweight, that they can join. The expectation is that we're similar to the AD or Guard in those respects. I can see others looking at DADT in the same light.

[lordmonar]

Not to mention that even IN OUR organisation...there were people right up to last year that thought DADT applied to CAP.

I don't recall if it was here or on CS where someone was ranting about how we should not change our policy and let the LGBT community join.......he shut up really quick when the situation was explained to him. 

IMHO....the Gay Pride Day celebration is not itself political......any more then Black History Month Parade or Memorial Day or Independance day parades are.

Yes....anytime you get more then 10 people together......politicians and people with political agenda's will show up....because you don't want to pass up free advertising.

And if CAP member march and that sends the message that everyone is welcome to serve their community, state and nation....then it is a good thing.  If it also keeps out people who don't show our core value of RESPECT.......again....that is a good thing.

[CAP4117]

And if CAP member march and that sends the message that everyone is welcome to serve their community, state and nation....then it is a good thing.  If it also keeps out people who don't show our core value of RESPECT.......again....that is a good thing.

I definitely agree with you on this point. That is the most important message we can send, I think. I guess maybe it depends on the nature of the parade. I do think that gay pride parades are a little more political than, say, a memorial day parade, just given the political climate we live in and the issues we are currently grappling with as a nation. But, maybe some parades are more than others. I guess for me it's an issue of how can we be welcoming to everyone and uphold our core values and at the same time stay mission-focused and above the political polarization that seems to be gripping the nation. I think both of those things are vital for us to succeed as an organization.
   

[Critical AOA]

IMHO....the Gay Pride Day celebration is not itself political......any more then Black History Month Parade or Memorial Day or Independance day parades are.

I disagree.  The parade is intended to gain some attention, to put the spot light on their cause.  This makes it political.  Independence Day & Memorial Day and their parades are vastly different.   Independence Day celebrates our nation's independence.  Memorial Day commemorates the sacrifices made to preserve that Independence and our freedoms.  Both of these days are intended to be inclusive of all Americans and welcome all of their participation.  When a special interest group has a parade or a special day or month it is most often for political or attention getting purposes.  Vastly different.

[lordmonar]

IMHO....the Gay Pride Day celebration is not itself political......any more then Black History Month Parade or Memorial Day or Independance day parades are.

I disagree.  The parade is intended to gain some attention, to put the spot light on their cause.  This makes it political.  Independence Day & Memorial Day and their parades are vastly different.   Independence Day celebrates our nation's independence.  Memorial Day commemorates the sacrifices made to preserve that Independence and our freedoms.  Both of these days are intended to be inclusive of all Americans and welcome all of their participation.  When a special interest group has a parade or a special day or month it is most often for political or attention getting purposes.  Vastly different.

By that definition........all parade are intended to gain attention to put the spot light on someone's cause......including independanc day and memorial day.  As far as I know the Gay Pride Parades are all inclusive.  Anyone can join.

Now.....a question.....you oppose CAP particpation in the Gay Pride Parade....because it is a special interest group......what would you say about a Disabled Veterans March?  Or a Cancer Awarness March?  Or Veterains Day?  Specail interest groups everyone of them.

[Extremepredjudice]

Replace "Gay Pride" with "White Power." Is it still okay then?

[lordmonar]

Replace "Gay Pride" with "White Power." Is it still okay then?

No......but now we are talking "message" and not just that there is a message.

This whole thread started because the OP was asking /sort of/ for advice about a specific event.

Personally.....IF I WERE THE COMMANDER.....I would not have allowed.  But I am not his commander....and neither are any of the rest of us, so it was out of our hands.

But just because there is "political" overtones with an event....is not an immidiate show stopper.
Politicians in an election year will use just about any venue to get their message across.....up to and including photo ops at military functions.  We can bend over backward trying to avoid "politics" and still get hammered for trying to avoid them in the first place.

On the scale of 100% okay...don't even bother to ask for permission to -100% what the hell were you thinking even contiplaiting going to that event in uniform......a Gay Pride Parade falls somewhere to the right....of don't do it....but just bairly.

On the whole.....since the USAF said it was okay, and NHQ and CAWG was mute........and I have not heard any negetive press about it......I think this is just a non issue.

As will all things......ask your chain of command and follow their policy.  Other then that....you have to just use your best judgement and press on.

[Bloodsky]

It isn't a place for CAP.

Exactly what i meant by my post, that young cadets in uniform do not belong in a gay rights parade.
It does not serve to represent our organization correctly, or at all, for that matter.

[sarmed1]

It does not serve to represent our organization correctly, or at all, for that matter.

Because we all know that there are no gay or lesbian cadets or cadets with gay or lesbian parents...

mk

[Майор Хаткевич]

It does not serve to represent our organization correctly, or at all, for that matter.

Because we all know that there are no gay or lesbian cadets or cadets with gay or lesbian parents...

mk

Don't Ask, Don't Oh...