Uniform for this weekends Parade

[lordmonar]

Something a lot of members misunderstand - "Aware" does not equal "Approved". 

I would be calling the Wing CC and getting his explicit approval.

Yes and no.
Assuming that you give higher headquarters enought time to react to it.....a "They did not veto it" implies approval....heck we do that with our laws....if the President does not sign the law and does not veto it.......it becomes a law anyway.  In a lot of cases the same applies.
Unless the regulation explicitly says "must be approved in writing" or something to that affect, you are free to use your best judgement.
I challange anyone to come up with a reg that says you MUST get wing approval to particpate in a parade.
The only reg that closely applies is 39-1 where it talks about wearing the uniform at political events.....and in this case the argument can be made that the AF is good with it.....ergo CAP particpation is okay.  If that is not true.....then CAWG and NHQ both dropped the ball and did not veto it.

So like I said before......they did their due dilligence.....and are useing their best judgement.  I do expect fall out.....I think it will just make CAP look stupid if they try to hammer them.....but there you go.

[lordmonar]

Also an assistant secretary signed the memo addressing to the services but that does mean that AF has approved it.  Huge difference here of you have a memo from SECAF, CSAF, OR CMSAF please link it, if not you need to state the actual party. 

Not to mention even though we are an auxillary we are a private corporation as well.

That's the cool part about the chain of command.

The DoD has approved it as policy......now the AF does not have to approve it....they have to veto it and then justify that veto.
Our guidance on when to wear or not wear our uniforms....basically says "if its okay with the AF it is okay with us".
So lacking any feed back from wing and NHQ.......it is left up to the discretion of the local commanders.

It is one of those times where silence is NOT golden.

[Eclipse]

Something a lot of members misunderstand - "Aware" does not equal "Approved". 

I would be calling the Wing CC and getting his explicit approval.

Yes and no.
Assuming that you give higher headquarters enought time to react to it.....a "They did not veto it" implies approval....heck we do that with our laws....

You know that's not how it works.

As to needing approval, it depends on the wing - some wings require anything outside regular meetings to be approved by
the next higher echelon (at least).

The smart thing to do is not play the telephone game and insure everyone is on the same page - that's called protecting your commander.
No one wants to be blind-sided, due diligence, regs, SOP's or otherwise.  That protects everyone involved, including
people who might not even be aware there's an issue.

[Critical AOA]

From the linked article in OP:

Uniformed soldiers in those countries have marched down the streets of Toronto and London next to scantily clad men, drag queens and civil rights activists.

While I support gay rights and am glad that the days of "Don't ask, don't tell" are over, I would prefer not to see military / CAP uniforms in this setting.  If all of the participants were wearing normal clothing, it would be less of an issue but these parades frequently are like a giant circus / freak show.   I have no problem with any military or CAP personnel participating in the parade but the fact it is in uniform does bother me.

[EMT-83]

... If this evolves into some sort of political statement...

How can a Gay Pride parade be considered anything but a political statement?

[abdsp51]

Also an assistant secretary signed the memo addressing to the services but that does mean that AF has approved it.  Huge difference here of you have a memo from SECAF, CSAF, OR CMSAF please link it, if not you need to state the actual party. 

Not to mention even though we are an auxillary we are a private corporation as well.

That's the cool part about the chain of command.

The DoD has approved it as policy......now the AF does not have to approve it....they have to veto it and then justify that veto.
Our guidance on when to wear or not wear our uniforms....basically says "if its okay with the AF it is okay with us".
So lacking any feed back from wing and NHQ.......it is left up to the discretion of the local commanders.

It is one of those times where silence is NOT golden.

Sir, you're right in that the AF doesnt have to approve it, however the OP has stated the AF has ok'd it when it was really the DoD.   If the AF supported it as the OP claimed there would have been something released.  Since they have not IMO this is one of instances where the leadership probably voiced their opinion was overridden, saluted and executed. 

Wearing the our uniform with higher guidance screams bad juju, but to each his own.  I do not think that this is one of those times its better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

[Eclipse]

Just for the record, "Ma' Blue" has approved this as per the attachement from the Assistant Sec Def. http://sdpride.org/xinha_user/files/Request_for_Guidance_Regarding_the_SD_Pride_Parade.pdf

Did you actually read the memo?

Members are approved to participate in a personal capacity.

This isn't remotely approved as an official event by the DoD or any service, nor should anyone in CAP construe DoD approval for personal participation as some sort of blanket approval for CAP to be involved officially.  And if a unit is marching as a unit, that's official involvement.

CAP's being involved has a number of potential issues, both internal and external.  Not being involved won't be a "black eye", no one will even know - unless people choose to make an issue out of it that it is not.

[Critical AOA]

Just for the record, "Ma' Blue" has approved this as per the attachement from the Assistant Sec Def. http://sdpride.org/xinha_user/files/Request_for_Guidance_Regarding_the_SD_Pride_Parade.pdf

Did you actually read the memo?

Members are approved to participate in a personal capacity.

This isn't remotely approved as an official event, nor should anyone in CAP construe DoD approval for personal participation as some sort
of blanket approval for CAP to be involved officially.  And if a unit is marching as a unit, that's official involvement.

Absolutely 100% correct. 

It also mentions military members and service members, neither of which includes CAP members.  We are civilians.  Also CAP HQ was not listed in the distribution list at the top of the memo.  My thoughts are that it does not grant approval to CAP even though the Air Force was included.

[krnlpanick]

I strongly suggest taking this up the CoC immediately for clarification. As mentioned the memo does not mention CAP in any capacity. Also, as noted service members are permitted to participate in an individually capacity, this does not mean that they will be forming ranks and marching as a unit and I suggest that any CAP Members participating in the parade take that into consideration.

While I, like many other's applaud the philosophy behind this, something with this much attention is walking on the razors edge and the media will be there looking for any endorsement they can to report on. Tread proudly, but lightly my friends.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I strongly suggest taking this up the CoC immediately for clarification. As mentioned the memo does not mention CAP in any capacity.

Since we wear a modified AF uniform, usually what prohibitions/restrictions the AF applies usually apply to us...especially in the current walking-on-eggshells attitude about uniforms in CAP.  The AF can tell us, "no, you will not wear the AF blue uniform in these circumstances."

However, CAP appearing solely in grey/whites, polos, etc. could well be another issue.

[Persona non grata]

I wonder if there was a hetrosexual pride parade if CAP would be allowed to march in it or a Muslim pride parade!  These parades have more of a polictical tone IMHO.  Stay classy Sand Dieago!!!!

V/R
Ron B.

[AngelWings]

It's a waste of time due to the fact you have so many complications with it.

[754837]

My guess is the OP is trying to stir up a big, nasty debate on CAP Talk.  His first posts are on one of the most controversial topics ever!  Anyway, this is just one man's opinion...

Still standing by this comment...

[Bloodsky]

Cant you guys think of a less controversial way to recruit..?

Look ma, young cadets in uniform, in a gay rights parade.. Go Air Force?

[Private Investigator]

Everything is already ordered and set. Recruiting material is ready and as well as other information about how we serve America as volunteers. Semper Vigilans!

Just like the partnership CAP had with NASCAR. Remember that? And Semper Vigilans you too new guy   

[Private Investigator]

I wonder why you posted your question here at all.


You got your ducks in a row......have fun......but beware the fall out.

Roger that

But newbie "capbobsand" is likely a new member in CAP and next year will not renew and couple years from now another newbie will do the same thing. sigh

[PhotogPilot]

I wonder if there was a hetrosexual pride parade if CAP would be allowed to march in it or a Muslim pride parade!  These parades have more of a polictical tone IMHO.  Stay classy Sand Dieago!!!!

V/R
Ron B.

And proofread your prompter copy.

As to the OP, sorry but my alarm is going off.

[Bloodsky]

I'm sure the other parade go-ers will love our young cadets in uniform.

[Garibaldi]

Wonder how it went...

[SarDragon]

Didn't hear any big news stories about it here. There hasn't been any CAWG traffic on it, either.