Thoughts of giving up dreams?

[AngelWings]

I know this isn't exactly CAP related, but what better place to ask questions than with people who've probably been in my shoes and have had experiences that could help guide me in the right direction.

Lately, I've pondered thoughts about whether or not I should give up on my dreams of become a USAF aviator or intelligence officer when I'm old enough to join the USAF. I've fought it off recently, but have noticed something somewhat disturbing about the pattern of thoughts. Sometimes I self-defeat myself before I even reach a point where I could consider a dream unworthy or unable to be pursued.

My question is how many of you have had this feeling and what, if anything, could be given as advice or guidance on this pattern of thoughts. Thank you in advance and I hope I don't sound childish.

[abdsp51]

Nothing childish about asking for advice.  Are you reconsidering due to another dream you have or is it something else?  Mankind is his own worst enemy and best friend.  There were some dreams I had to give up for one aspect or another some willingly others not much.  The important thing to remember is they are your dreams  I would look at the requirements for both fields and go from there before making a decision. 

[AngelWings]

Nothing childish about asking for advice.  Are you reconsidering due to another dream you have or is it something else?  Mankind is his own worst enemy and best friend.  There were some dreams I had to give up for one aspect or another some willingly others not much.  The important thing to remember is they are your dreams  I would look at the requirements for both fields and go from there before making a decision.

I'm reconsidering for not so much a dream as much of an idea of clutching onto a pilot job without being a bluesuiter IE Army Aviation. It is because sometimes I question myself because of how sometimes I'm not perfect in schools (A's and B's most of the time and sometimes a C or D one term if I mess up badly in one class). USAF Aviation is hard to get into and intelligence is flying. Better put, it is a dream of being USAF vs. what if I could get clutch onto flying.

My problem is I see two solutions for one problem, and both weigh out equally to me. It feels like one of those game shows where you have to pick between two doors, both with prizes, and both with a benifit and a downside. My feelings on the situation are confusing me.

[abdsp51]

There are pros and cons to many choices.  I would recommend you write out a list and list the pros and cons to each, this way you'll have a more in-depth look at things.

[AngelWings]

There are pros and cons to many choices.  I would recommend you write out a list and list the pros and cons to each, this way you'll have a more in-depth look at things.

Will do. Thank you.

[coudano]

So from what I am able to gather, you are thinking of skipping what you perceive as the 'harder' or 'more unsure' route of a commission in the USAF as a pilot or intel officer, in favor of the 'easier' or 'more guaranteed' path of probably a warrant in the Army as a helo pilot?

First of all, if that is how you view the choices ahead of you, you may have a rude awakening coming up in which of those paths you think is easier or surer.  (hint:  neither is easy, nor sure).

In either case though, we're talking about either a 4 year or 2 year college degree, right?
And NOT going on an enlistment path right out of high school?


Second of all, with regards to advice, here is mine:

1.  Set your long range goal.  The thing that you REALLY want.  Map out all paths to it, and pursue all of those paths.  Have options to skip from one to another, if one path becomes closed to you for some reason.  Have back-up plans that are within reach if your main goal doesn't work out.  Set forth intentionally.  If the 'easier' goal doesn't work out, you PROBABLY aren't going to be able to skip over to the 'harder' one, if you know what i'm saying...   Shoot for the stars.

2.  Break down that huge long range goal that seems unattainable into medium and short range goals.  Things that you can do "today and tomorrow".  Then just do that.  And keep doing it the next day.  And so on.  Never quit, never give up.  If you stumble, get up and keep going.  Before you know it, you will be at your destination (!)   The number one reason people don't make it, is because they give up and quit along the way (for sometimes REALLY stupid reasons, really unrecoverable dumb mistakes, and really silly distractions).  You can quit right now, or you can quit in the last week of pilot training right before you graduate...  Either way you don't make it to where you are trying to go.

Specifically, I assume you are in high school.  Get good grades in all of your classes right now.
Get into college.  Get good grades in college.  One class; One semester, at a time.
Improve your physical fitness.  Score 90 or better on the AFPT (get 100+ if you can) (go to the gym TODAY)
Become proficient and writing and public speaking influentially (join a local toastmaster's club)
Learn to be decisive and even directive while still being considerate of others
Practice, Improve, and Refine your Character and Core Values

3.  Adjust your attitude.  The culture that you are trying to join sees a challenge, smirks at it, and has it for breakfast.  Those who don't acclimate find themselves quitting along the way...  Your journey doesn't stop at the end of high school, or the end of college, or even upon commissioning and 'getting into' a career field of your choice.  The training in your career field will be challenging, and competitive.  Against the minimum standard just to stay in, and against everyone else, for choice assignment at the end.  And even then, when you get out into your job, you are competing against yourself, minimum standards, other officers (for promotions and assignments), technological developments, other units, inspection teams, and ultimately an enemy in combat for your life or the life of someone else!

I'm not saying this to discourage you further.  I'm saying that you need to understand what it is you are trying to get into.  If you think you have what it takes to do what you say you want to do; apply the same mental attitude, determination, resilience, and discipline that you will need to do the job, to all the steps currently standing between where you are now, and that job that you want to get.  If you do this, barring catastrophic event, I can just about guarantee you are going to get where you want to go!

4.  You said your grades are pretty good.  Sounds certainly good enough to get into, and succeed in college.  Not always a great indicator of your ability to rapidly learn, and even short term memorize A LOT of information.  This is a skill that will help you in high school or college.  It will make or break your career as a pilot or intel officer.  Make sure your study skills are great!!!  Take a class if you need to.  Challenge yourself, don't just sluff around.  Just because you can come out at the end of the semester with good grades in high school, or even undergrad college doesn't mean you have good study skills/discipline.  (take my word for it)

[AngelWings]

You're not discouraging me. What you've said I agree with and has enlightened me.

I don't exactly view Army Aviation as easier, but I see their fleet of aircraft being more sure (not being reduced ridiculously).

I currently am a freshman in highschool. I am looking to commision, and go the AFROTC route. I could make into a decent college easy. I've always finished my school years with A's and high B's.

With physical fitness, I'm not too worried about it. I'm not really in shape, but so far I've lost 60 pounds and am going down still. I run a lot and do light upper body work. PT I'll be able to overcome.

With setting longterm goals, this is really the only dream I've ever been shaky on. I have had some pretty long term goals, have had to compete real hard before to get positions, have had to work harder than most to get where I am. I'm not sure if it is feeling that my path isn't 100% sure or if I'm just having one of the typical teenage lifechanging brainfarts.

I do understand what I am getting into, and embrace the challenge with open arms. Some how, some way, I've always been able to beat the competition so far. It is the preliminary stuff that has been my enemy. My track record, IMHO, is great. I'm just worried about getting accepted into AFROTC with a GPA that is 4.0, and how that might work against me in any selection process for any of my preferred career fields.

[MSG Mac]

Right now concentrate on High School as your primary objective. True the AF is reducing it's fleet and subsequently it's pilot quota. But Intel is actually a better job for career progression, advancement, and post military employment over the long term. If you're getting A's+B's start thinking about AP classes and enhancing your extra-curricular activities, this will enhance your college application. If your primary goal is being a pilot, all the uniformed services, including the USCG, have aviation programs. 

[Flying Pig]

Look dude, I had the same problem when I was in High School.  I wanted to be a military pilot.  I had my pilots licesnse already in high school so I knew I had the aptitude.  I got into this rut because I didnt think I would be smart enough.  I let people tell me that unless I was taking AP Calculus and Physics and part of the Honor Society that I wouldnt have a chance in the world to fly.  And I believed it. Instead of going on to college and giving it a shot, I decided to enlist.  When I enlisted it WAS what I wanted to do.  But I spent the next 8yrs riding in the back of the aircraft I should have been flying.   
Now I know many pilots, both AF and Army pilots.  All good people, but guess what?  They are jjust like me.  They dont have degrees in Physics or Math, not that thats bad, what I am saying is they are just wel rounded people and for the biggest part, they had the drive to seee it through. Youd be surprised how many people youll beat out just by sticking with the goal!  A lot of people will drop themselves by moving on, losing interest or getting discouraged themselves. 
I have no doubt in my mind looking back on it that I KNOW I could have done either if I had stuck with it.  I wanted to fly helicopters, I was never really interested in being a fighter pilot.

If you want to fly in the military, then do it.  Let THEM tell you your not qualified.  If you shoot for the moon you'll either hit it or land somewhere in between.  Your starting to talk yourself out of your goal  DONT DO IT.  Because if you keep it up, you WILL talk yourself out of it.  Because I did.  And years later I had to go back and do it.  Now look at me.....Im flying helos and fixed wing daily!  But I had about a 10yr set back because I let myself get discouraged thinking I could never compete with the other students who wanted to fly.  Bull-honky!

WHo cares what service or what aircraft right now.  Just concentrate on one thing, getting the best possible experience and education out of high school.  IF you want to fly, then do it.

[Flying Pig]

One more thing to add.....

Now, I dont fly military aircraft, but I fly fixed wing and helicopters.  Cessna TC206H and an MD500E and a UH1.  Based on those experiences.....Helicopters ROCK.

Now compared to maybe an A-10 vs a AH64?  Man.....Id have to say I would be OK with either one

[Private Investigator]

If you want to fly in the military, then do it.  Let THEM tell you your not qualified.  If you shoot for the moon you'll either hit it or land somewhere in between.  Your starting to talk yourself out of your goal  DONT DO IT.  Because if you keep it up, you WILL talk yourself out of it.  Because I did.  And years later I had to go back and do it.  Now look at me.....Im flying helos and fixed wing daily!  But I had about a 10yr set back because I let myself get discouraged thinking I could never compete with the other students who wanted to fly.  Bull-honky!

WHo cares what service or what aircraft right now.  Just concentrate on one thing, getting the best possible experience and education out of high school.  IF you want to fly, then do it.

+1

Let the dream take you wherever. But while in the military be the best "whatever" you can be.

[AngelWings]

Look dude, I had the same problem when I was in High School.  I wanted to be a military pilot.  I had my pilots licesnse already in high school so I knew I had the aptitude.  I got into this rut because I didnt think I would be smart enough.  I let people tell me that unless I was taking AP Calculus and Physics and part of the Honor Society that I wouldnt have a chance in the world to fly.  And I believed it. Instead of going on to college and giving it a shot, I decided to enlist.  When I enlisted it WAS what I wanted to do.  But I spent the next 8yrs riding in the back of the aircraft I should have been flying.   
Now I know many pilots, both AF and Army pilots.  All good people, but guess what?  They are jjust like me.  They dont have degrees in Physics or Math, not that thats bad, what I am saying is they are just wel rounded people and for the biggest part, they had the drive to seee it through. Youd be surprised how many people youll beat out just by sticking with the goal!  A lot of people will drop themselves by moving on, losing interest or getting discouraged themselves. 
I have no doubt in my mind looking back on it that I KNOW I could have done either if I had stuck with it.  I wanted to fly helicopters, I was never really interested in being a fighter pilot.

If you want to fly in the military, then do it.  Let THEM tell you your not qualified.  If you shoot for the moon you'll either hit it or land somewhere in between.  Your starting to talk yourself out of your goal  DONT DO IT.  Because if you keep it up, you WILL talk yourself out of it.  Because I did.  And years later I had to go back and do it.  Now look at me.....Im flying helos and fixed wing daily!  But I had about a 10yr set back because I let myself get discouraged thinking I could never compete with the other students who wanted to fly.  Bull-honky!

WHo cares what service or what aircraft right now.  Just concentrate on one thing, getting the best possible experience and education out of high school.  IF you want to fly, then do it.

I too think I am not always smart enough. Your advice is very encouraging, thank you. I won't let anyone tell me I'm not qualified who isn't the USAF. I always compare myself to other students and people with the same goal. I'll stick with my goal and see it through to the end.

[AngelWings]

Right now concentrate on High School as your primary objective. True the AF is reducing it's fleet and subsequently it's pilot quota. But Intel is actually a better job for career progression, advancement, and post military employment over the long term. If you're getting A's+B's start thinking about AP classes and enhancing your extra-curricular activities, this will enhance your college application. If your primary goal is being a pilot, all the uniformed services, including the USCG, have aviation programs.

I'll focus on more extra-curricular activities and shoot for as many AP classes as possible. I've heard the intel jobs have extra benifits and that they have an easier time getting careers after the Air Force. I want to eventually work in an aviation corporation like Lockheed Martin or Pratt and Whitney, so either job has its benifits.

[abdsp51]

If you aspire for intel keep your nose clean and when you fill out your questionnaire be 100% honest.  Most intel jobs require  top secret clearance, and with the leaks and incidents over the last few years a lot will be under the microscope.  You sound like you have your head screwed on straight and are ready to get at it. 

[AngelWings]

If you aspire for intel keep your nose clean and when you fill out your questionnaire be 100% honest.  Most intel jobs require  top secret clearance, and with the leaks and incidents over the last few years a lot will be under the microscope.  You sound like you have your head screwed on straight and are ready to get at it.

I'm torn between both fields, I'm sure it will be only on or two factors leading towards one or the other, and either one was is okay with me. Not to sound cliche, but I want to have a good life and be able to support a family while having a rewarding career that doesn't bore me to death (both fields have their boring times, but what job doesn't). That includes also being able to transition back to the civilian world with ease and being able to get a good paying career.

[Flying Pig]

If you aspire for intel keep your nose clean and when you fill out your questionnaire be 100% honest.  Most intel jobs require  top secret clearance, and with the leaks and incidents over the last few years a lot will be under the microscope.  You sound like you have your head screwed on straight and are ready to get at it.

I'm torn between both fields, I'm sure it will be only on or two factors leading towards one or the other, and either one was is okay with me. Not to sound cliche, but I want to have a good life and be able to support a family while having a rewarding career that doesn't bore me to death (both fields have their boring times, but what job doesn't). That includes also being able to transition back to the civilian world with ease and being able to get a good paying career.

.....and you though Intel would be a good idea?    (my wife was intel before anyone starts calling me a prejudice bigoted racist!)

[AngelWings]

If you aspire for intel keep your nose clean and when you fill out your questionnaire be 100% honest.  Most intel jobs require  top secret clearance, and with the leaks and incidents over the last few years a lot will be under the microscope.  You sound like you have your head screwed on straight and are ready to get at it.

I'm torn between both fields, I'm sure it will be only on or two factors leading towards one or the other, and either one was is okay with me. Not to sound cliche, but I want to have a good life and be able to support a family while having a rewarding career that doesn't bore me to death (both fields have their boring times, but what job doesn't). That includes also being able to transition back to the civilian world with ease and being able to get a good paying career.

I've heard some fun things are done with things in the intelligence field. Look at the 102nd AOG for example. They gave my squadron an orientation in the field and there is a lot of boring times, but the exciting times can make or break your entire week.

.....and you though Intel would be a good idea?    (my wife was intel before anyone starts calling me a prejudice bigoted racist!)

It can be boring, but from an orientation I've heard from the 102nd AOG, sometimes your actions can save lives.

[Flying Pig]

No your right. they all have their moments.  My wife was in Civil Affairs and her unit focused on issues with North Korea. She knew way more about NK than an 22 yr old American chick should have

What I thought would be cool was Special Operations Weather.  End up a certified meterologist AND you get to go to all the cool kid schools. 

[AngelWings]

No your right. they all have their moments.  My wife was in Civil Affairs and her unit focused on issues with North Korea. She knew way more about NK than an 22 yr old American chick should have

What I thought would be cool was Special Operations Weather.  End up a certified meterologist AND you get to go to all the cool kid schools.

You wouldn't believe it, but the ANG base I meet on has a Weather Flight. They're cool people and very generous, too.

[bosshawk]

There is all kinds of good advice in this thread.  I happen to have had careers in both fields: aviation and intelligence.  I have been flying off and on for over 50 years and I had 42 years in the intelligence field. 

Right now, your goal should be to do the absolute best that you can do in High School.  Good grades and the right courses.  Then, college and don't major in basket weaving or philosophy.  By the time that you finish HS, you will have been through five or six ideas of what you want to do and discarded all of them.  If you are still into aviation and intel, focus your college on what will get you to that goal.

If you have specific questions, PM me.