The Dictator

[abdsp51]

Makes me wonder what would be said if i wore all my decs

Probably the same thing they ask me..................Hey whats that one for?

[James Shaw]

Makes me wonder what would be said if i wore all my decs

Probably the same thing they ask me..................Hey whats that one for?

Nice thing though sir is I still have my CAP ribbons so it wont be a problem, but it would cost a pretty penny to do both mil and CAP on CAP uniform.  I have my 4 I can wear and that will suffice for now.  Should I go the mess dress route then I'll have my mil and CAP medals done.

I have the mess dress. I dont wear any AD stuff anymore. I did when I first joined but did not feel right for me so I quit mixing the stuff.

[Flying Pig]

Personally I think it'd be sad to see your SMoV hidden in the middle.

[abdsp51]

I agree, if I didnt have any CAP specific ribbons i'd wear my mil stuff.  Even if I wore to wear both it wouldnt even be near like the pic.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Ladies and gentlemen, the attractive woman you see above is Isla Fisher. And now, let's look at the ribbon rack at the distant top...

I've seen cadets with fruit salad nearly this ridiculous. Makes me wonder why we don't pare down the achievement ribbons in phases I and II. Also makes me wonder if those kids have a life outside CAP. Or whether they're overdecorated for the things they've done in CAP. Either way, something isn't right.

Really? There is no issue here. Cadets usually end up wearing fairly sizable racks in JROTC and CAP. It generally helps them feel good about themselves, feel good about their service within CAP and JROTC, and costs next to nothing to the organization.

They are not OVER decorated. They are decorated to the needs of 12 and 15 and ultimately 21 year olds, notice how the ribbons thin out around the cadet officer grades? I'm not sure what you mean, "do they have lives?". What lives do you expect them to have? Most kids that age go to school and participate in one or two after school groups. If a cadet is spending a majority of his/her spare time with CAP and racking awards, well its better than sitting around and playing video games or something of the sort.

Sure they look a bit silly to seasoned military folk, but its really no big deal. Were dealing with teenagers here who pretty much all have self esteem issues of some kind (No offense Cadets, I was in your shoes not long ago and we are talking about majority here). If ribbons help in that area and provide a tangible award for service then I can live with some massive racks (so to speak).

That said, most cadet officers are usually are wise enough to forgo ribbons on everything but service dress.  And if they don't, who cares?

Speaking as one of those overdecorated cadets, albeit now a former cadet (s'member since 1993), self-esteem should not come from your fruit salad but rather from the feeling of accomplishment that may or may not be recognized by decorations and awards. If you can't be confident in your ability and capability -- remember, you're not always going to be in a uniform -- then no number of ribbons is going to help you. It's not what you look like; it's what you are and can do. Otherwise, you're all hat, no cattle. Speaking to self-esteem for a minute more: If your inner child whines and cries at the first sign of adversity, it's probably time someone kicks its little butt and gives it a wake-up call. This isn't a Nerf world.

We put ribbons on a parallel track with promotions in phases I and II of the cadet program, then pare back with only the milestone awards later. Why be redundant, though? Isn't the promotion enough? Those aren't questions I can answer, but only throw out for discussion. I know that as a cadet, when my ribbons became heavy and unwieldy, I only wore the top three when I had to wear them on a shirt (I got to a point where if I didn't have to wear them, I didn't).

Also, I question the wisdom of awarding cadets meritorious, exceptional or distinguished service awards. I've seen that more than once, and they never quite completely pass the smell test for me. Should you not start with a lower decoration for junior members, and work up as they advance, so that the award is in the ballpark of appropriateness for a person of similar rank and grade who does outstanding work? Or should cadets leapfrog senior members who do more substantial feats and don't see similar reward? Let's hear it, folks.

As for what I said about having a life outside CAP? I speak from experience, and from the experience of others who were cadets when I was. We should want cadets to be well-rounded, not one who solely focuses on, say, CAP.

All that said, the ribbons cadets earn aren't nearly as obnoxious as all those shields seniors are allowed to wear in Heaven-only-knows how many places now (what is it? three positions authorized?). I could wear a few, but one suffices nicely. Now THAT needs a good, hard look.

[titanII]

Now, were I the Dictator (see, I can stay on topic  ) of CAP, I would restructure cadet ribbons in Phase I & II as follows: cadets receive a ribbon for their Curry Achievement, Wright Brothers Award, Lindbergh Achievement, and finally the Mitchell Award. From there on, everything else would follow as it is now. My thinking is that this gives the cadet a ribbon for every part of their "enlisted" period: Airman, Junior NCO, Senior NCO, and so on in the "officer" period.

[AngelWings]

I hate huge ribbon racks. I don't like having my whole CAP career on my chest.

[Eclipse]

I don't like having my whole CAP career on my chest.

But that's the point, and one of the reasons why people get so bent about fakers, CAP, military, or otherwise.  Between members of the same service, it's a short hand to know what level of BTDT you have and whether anyone has appreciated your efforts.  There's plenty of room for error, etc., but what you wear, or don't, can speak volumes.

The Major with nothing but PD ribbons probably doesn't get out much, and a 2nd Lt with a full SAR, NCSA, and a FIND attachment probably went to NESA.  The Captain with wings and a membership ribbon is most likely a Pilot with a capital "P", and the Lt. Col. with nothing from CAP is likely prior military.

It's also a fun game at functions - nothing is more fun than being told all about how messed up "ES" is in CAP by a member without a single thing his uniform that indicates he's ever been involved in ES, or likewise, being provided details about how to "handle kids today" by a member with nothing shiny on that indicates he's ever even met a cadet.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

In other words, your decorations give you credibility. "Been there, done that." I can buy that. Except that some of us don't wear everything.

[Eclipse]

Even that says something.

One thing that still hacks me is when members who do get decorated won't take the time to update their racks, seems somewhat disrespectful to me of the effort of pushing it through.

[Abby.L]

Ladies and gentlemen, the attractive woman you see above is Isla Fisher. And now, let's look at the ribbon rack at the distant top...

I've seen cadets with fruit salad nearly this ridiculous. Makes me wonder why we don't pare down the achievement ribbons in phases I and II. Also makes me wonder if those kids have a life outside CAP. Or whether they're overdecorated for the things they've done in CAP. Either way, something isn't right.

Really? There is no issue here. Cadets usually end up wearing fairly sizable racks in JROTC and CAP. It generally helps them feel good about themselves, feel good about their service within CAP and JROTC, and costs next to nothing to the organization.

They are not OVER decorated. They are decorated to the needs of 12 and 15 and ultimately 21 year olds, notice how the ribbons thin out around the cadet officer grades? I'm not sure what you mean, "do they have lives?". What lives do you expect them to have? Most kids that age go to school and participate in one or two after school groups. If a cadet is spending a majority of his/her spare time with CAP and racking awards, well its better than sitting around and playing video games or something of the sort.

Sure they look a bit silly to seasoned military folk, but its really no big deal. Were dealing with teenagers here who pretty much all have self esteem issues of some kind (No offense Cadets, I was in your shoes not long ago and we are talking about majority here). If ribbons help in that area and provide a tangible award for service then I can live with some massive racks (so to speak).

That said, most cadet officers are usually are wise enough to forgo ribbons on everything but service dress.  And if they don't, who cares?

Speaking as one of those overdecorated cadets, albeit now a former cadet (s'member since 1993), self-esteem should not come from your fruit salad but rather from the feeling of accomplishment that may or may not be recognized by decorations and awards. If you can't be confident in your ability and capability -- remember, you're not always going to be in a uniform -- then no number of ribbons is going to help you. It's not what you look like; it's what you are and can do. Otherwise, you're all hat, no cattle. Speaking to self-esteem for a minute more: If your inner child whines and cries at the first sign of adversity, it's probably time someone kicks its little butt and gives it a wake-up call. This isn't a Nerf world.

We put ribbons on a parallel track with promotions in phases I and II of the cadet program, then pare back with only the milestone awards later. Why be redundant, though? Isn't the promotion enough? Those aren't questions I can answer, but only throw out for discussion. I know that as a cadet, when my ribbons became heavy and unwieldy, I only wore the top three when I had to wear them on a shirt (I got to a point where if I didn't have to wear them, I didn't).

Also, I question the wisdom of awarding cadets meritorious, exceptional or distinguished service awards. I've seen that more than once, and they never quite completely pass the smell test for me. Should you not start with a lower decoration for junior members, and work up as they advance, so that the award is in the ballpark of appropriateness for a person of similar rank and grade who does outstanding work? Or should cadets leapfrog senior members who do more substantial feats and don't see similar reward? Let's hear it, folks.

As for what I said about having a life outside CAP? I speak from experience, and from the experience of others who were cadets when I was. We should want cadets to be well-rounded, not one who solely focuses on, say, CAP.

All that said, the ribbons cadets earn aren't nearly as obnoxious as all those shields seniors are allowed to wear in Heaven-only-knows how many places now (what is it? three positions authorized?). I could wear a few, but one suffices nicely. Now THAT needs a good, hard look.

Myself being a cadet, I find the "All or none" thing to be rather horrible. Albeit I rarely wear my rack on my shirt, if I do, I would want maybe my top 3 achievement awards, and everything else. I know other cadets who have so many ribbons+devices(GTM or Wings), that they actually HAVE to leave off one or both of the devices. Not sure why CAP decided to make cadets wear all or none, but I know that it's annoying on the jacket sometimes too.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I think that one of the ribbons The Dictator is wearing (diagonally-striped) may be an Australian decoration.  I do recognise a few US military ribbons...I wouldn't be surprised if others are a mish-mash of State Guard, Young Marines, NSCC, and maybe even NOAA.

With me, what you see is what you get...the same ribbon rack since 2006 (I only wear my CAP ribbons), except for another clasp on my Red Service.

I'm not eligible for another one until I complete my Garber award criteria, because (and I've expounded on this at length on another thread) in my tentatively-current unit, being a worker bee and having a life outside of CAP can seem to preclude one from ribbon-worthy recognition.  Que sera sera.  We shall see what the future holds.

I take some solace in my also-mentioned-before notation that the forces of our allies are considerably less generous with multicoloured bits of ribbon on the chest, such as the Commander of the Canadian Defence Liaison Staff in Washington, DC, Rear-Admiral R.W. Greenwood, OMM, CD, RCN, has exactly one-half the rack that my CAP rack contains...



I rarely wear my ribbons on anything but my service dress for a couple of reasons:

1. I don't have that many
2. It lessens wear on them, which means I don't have to shell out for replacements as often
3. It doesn't look like I'm trying to impress anyone
4. K.I.S.S.

I'm thinking of only wearing my CommComm since it's the only one I have with any real "weight" to it, and that's not much given how some wings/groups/squadrons hand those and the Achievement Award (the two are almost interchangeable) out just for knowing the right people.

I agree with the assertion about all the "shields"...I have two but only wear one.

I actually find "The Dictator" type ribbon racks much less annoying than a rack having far less ribbons, but those ribbons are frayed/worn/dirty, and the wearer knows that they're frayed/worn/dirty.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

That's the official portrait of Gen. Merrill McPeak, the CSAF who ushered in the service dress uniform we wear now. Note that we wear a uniform that's retrofitted with epaulets, nameplates, blue mohair sleeve braid and the "U.S." cutouts. They weren't part of the original redesign, as you can tell from this image.

And notice he's wearing top three. The rule was to be "all or some" on service coats, and "all, some or none" elsewhere. I find no fault in that. Air Force officers rarely, if at all, wear ribbons on their shirts; enlisted personnel, on the other hand, many times wear them. (In CAP, many of our officers seem to have an enlisted mentality about the whole thing, anyway.) As for service coats, allowing personnel to wear "top three" rather than an entire barrage of color isn't necessarily a bad option. It's fairly well established that you're going to have a certain number of ribbons, considering the grade you wear.

Before the uniform redesign, this was what his uniform looked like, for comparison and contrast. Note no nameplate — three-stars and four-stars were exempted from wearing them under the old regulations. You can see his top three, albeit on a staggered rack.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I remember the Tony McPeak coat.  I saw exactly one person wear it - a Ch. Capt.  I still have my old four-pocket "Tony Nelson" coat hanging in my closet.  I miss those.

I don't really have a "top three" of any significance so it would be a bit silly for me to do that.

I find that the ones in CAP who wear ribbons on shirts tend to be the ones who wear the G/W setup...and I don't blame them for that because they've got nowhere else to wear what they've earned.

[abdsp51]

IMO the McPeak coat needs to go go go.  Bring back the 4 pocket one back but refit it.  I know one of the ideas pitched around was the the 4 pocket coat with a belt.  The test photos of it didn't look bad but I think a leather belt would look much better.  The was a huge uproar among the populace with McPeak's uniform changes and thankfully Gen Fogleman reversed a good chunk of it.  I wear/wore my ribbons on my blues when I was wore them working flight until the flt chief nixed them for everyone, wore them working staff support until OIC said that due to my job I didn't need to wear them.   

[lordmonar]

The problem with the all or some rule......there were bozos SNCOS out there wearing just their basic training ribbon.

It did not last long.

[MSG Mac]

BTW The striped Ribbon is the Vietnamese Staff Service Medal 2/c

[CAP_truth]

In my days as a cadet a cadet officer could have only five ribbons to wear. Red, white and blue with clasps, plus encampment and COP ribbon. I had seven when I made cadet 2nd Lt.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

All the diddling with the three service coat variations — the "Hap Arnold," the "Billy Mitchell" and the "Star Trek" — were put on hold, and probably for good reason. At the time, there were issues with the security of our nuclear assets, if I remember correctly. It just looked like senior leadership took their eyes off the ball.