Cadete Honor Guard

[shlebz]

how would one go about trying to start an honor guard? is there something i have to write to give t the commander and such? or do i have to go give a presentation? any advice would be helpful.

[Eclipse]

Just discuss with your commander or Deputy.

[arajca]

RESEARCH.

1. Talk to the cadets in your unit to see if there is interest AND committment.
2. Talk to other units with honor guards to see what the time required really is. This should include training/practice time, uniform prep time, presentation time, etc.
3. Plan on practices not at meetings.
4. See if there is opportunities to perform in your area.
5. Figure out what equipment you will need to get. (Include extra strength Tylenol  )

[Eclipse]

Also, attention to detail won't hurt...

[shlebz]

i already talked to my DCC and she said she liked the idea, however that's as far as it went. Am i allowed to contact the senior i have mind  for the Senior in charge? I am hoping to make a Group Honor Guard, not just a squadron one. I understand that as a cadet officer i am expected to know the COC up, down, left, and right.. however i have never done or attempted to do anything even relatively close to this. I am openly accepting the challenge, however i am a little lost.

[lordmonar]

i already talked to my DCC and she said she liked the idea, however that's as far as it went. Am i allowed to contact the senior i have mind  for the Senior in charge? I am hoping to make a Group Honor Guard, not just a squadron one. I understand that as a cadet officer i am expected to know the COC up, down, left, and right.. however i have never done or attempted to do anything even relatively close to this. I am openly accepting the challenge, however i am a little lost.

Well...if the intent is to form a group honor guard....then your next step (with commander approval) would be to contact the group Cadet Programs Officer and let him know you are interested.

He should be the one to guide you from that point.  If you get no help from him.....up the chain you go...checking in with your commander each step.

[Extremepredjudice]

Read CAPP 52-8, specifically pages 12-14

[Eclipse]

If you get no help from him.....up the chain you go...checking in with your commander each step.

No, then you're done.

If the Group CC isn't interested in the idea, you don't walk up to Wing on something like this.  An Honor Guard is a unit-level activity, and not something
that the wing is going to champion.  Especially when you consider how little interest their is in most wings in NCC.

The place for this activity is squarely at the unit level, and it sounds as if the CDC isn't interested enough to work the idea.  Anyone can speak to anyone
on this, but not be surprised or disgruntled if there isn't an outpouring of support. 

Honor Guards are a nice to have, but their requirements are pretty regimented, and places they can actually do anything pretty limited, the time would likely be better spent on putting together a Color Guard or even a Drill team that could compete and participate for local events, etc .

A Group-level HG isn't likely to work very well because the participants are going to be spread all over and there's generally little to no place they can be used for anything.

[lordmonar]

Or you can ignore Eclipse and go up your chain of command (with your commander's approval) for assistance.

If wing or group does not want to form one....of course you can always for one at the unit level.

Also...honor guard is NOT NCC drill teams....

[Eclipse]

Also...honor guard is NOT NCC drill teams....

Yes, thank you.  That's my point.

A CG or DT has a lot more practical value for the effort than an HG which is likely to never be used in the "real world".
But further, if the unit doesn't already have a CG or DT, there is likely no one involved there who has the practical knowledge
and experience in protocol and movements, etc., to step up to the performance required for an HG, which has much higher expectations.

[lordmonar]

Also...honor guard is NOT NCC drill teams....

Yes, thank you.  That's my point.

A CG or DT has a lot more practical value for the effort than an HG which is likely to never be used in the "real world".
But further, if the unit doesn't already have a CG or DT, there is likely no one involved there who has the practical knowledge
and experience in protocol and movements, etc., to step up to the performance required for an HG, which has much higher expectations.

Way to encourage the cadets.   

[Eclipse]

^ Thank you, I'm glad we can agree.

[HGjunkie]

If an Honor Guard isn't being "Used in the real world," there's a command issue. A decent Senior Member will be working with the C/OIC and will be finding events and ceremonies where they can at least ask to perform at. And most times, they'll let you perform.

Non-Concur with Eclipse.

[shlebz]

If an Honor Guard isn't being "Used in the real world," there's a command issue. A decent Senior Member will be working with the C/OIC and will be finding events and ceremonies where they can at least ask to perform at. And most times, they'll let you perform.

Non-Concur with Eclipse.

My uncle does Honor Guard Duties everyday at his job, and it does teach important values

Also, attention to detail won't hurt...

[Eclipse]

Also, attention to detail won't hurt...

I was specifically referring to your somewhat "creative" grammar and spelling in the original post.

[Eclipse]

If wing or group does not want to form one....of course you can always for one at the unit level.

Just to re-wind the point.  It's a unit Honor Guard Program, not Group or Wing, with the key word and regulation (52-16) specifying "unit".
As we point out on a regular basis, it's OK to actually read the regulations.

[HGjunkie]

For guidance, see CAPP 52-8, Unit Honor Guard Program.

1.2: Wing and region commanders may elect to have members of different Unit Honor Guards form a wing or region Honor Guard as deemed necessary by the appropriate commander.

2.1.4: Each unit can represent their wing, region, and sometimes, national headquarters.

Plus about 20+ other references to having Wing/higher HG units.

[Eclipse]

Read what you posted.  This is not a reference to a wing mounting it's own program, but members of unit HG's occasionally working together for
activities of larger scope.

1.2: Wing and region commanders may elect to have members of different Unit Honor Guards form a wing or region Honor Guard as deemed necessary by the appropriate commander.

2.1.4: Each unit can represent their wing, region, and sometimes, national headquarters.

The intention and authorization of this program is clearly local unit, participating in their local communities.  One only has to see the emphasis on regular practice to know that a unit which exists only at a an echelon higher than a unit will be almost impossible to maintain in anything but the smallest wings.

[lordmonar]

Disagree.

a) 90% of the units in CAP can't....physically can't....form a full honor guard.
b) You are splitting hairs about who is "mounting it own program".  Wings and above most certainly can mount their own honor guards....that's what it says in 1.2.  It does not say "wing/region/national can call upon unit honor guards....."

Really.

If you don't like Honor Guards....just say so.  I understand exactly what you are saying.  I don't like them either.  I, just like you, think they require too much time and too little return on investment.  I don't think there is enough "work" for them to be justified.

But.....that's not what the OP asked.  He wanted to know where to start.

Shlebz....if you want to do this....go for it.  There are a lot of resurces that you can use.  Ask around...get with your CDC and move up the chain looking for the help you need.

[Eclipse]

Correct 90% of the units can't mount one.  Why?  lack of people and lack of interest.

The name of the program says "Unit" - that's not a hair, that's a definition.  Further, the verbiage quoted could not be more clear that
Wings and Regions are supposed to pull from unit programs, not mount their own.

A Region based-honor guard? Seriously?  Cadets are going to cross state lines and drive a whole day to practice on a regular basis?
No, of course not, but when there's a big conference, or similar major event where they would be there anyway, then those who are trained
can step up.

This has nothing to do with "liking" HG's and everything to do with being realistic.  A unit with no interested Seniors, that does not
even have an active CG or DT should not be starting at an Honor Guard.

You start with Color Guard, if you like that and can do it reasonably well, then you can discuss whether to move things to the next level,
but most of the time all the discussion is spent on finding money for ascots and rifles and no one actually spends any time trying to
understand the expectations of these endeavors.

To answer the OP:

You discuss it with your CC or CDC, if they are not interested, then consider attending the HGA yourself, but it is unlikely you'll have options beyond that.

[Patterson]

Does it really matter if a Squadron, Group or Wing establishes a program?  I think that the only thing that matters in all of the posts here is the huge lack of support by Seniors to actually help Cadets.

If a Squadron has the Cadet base and enthusiasm to start any type of extracurricular team but is holding it back due to Senior Member disinterest, something is terribly wrong!!!

[SarDragon]

If wing or group does not want to form one....of course you can always for one at the unit level.

Just to re-wind the point.  It's a unit Honor Guard Program, not Group or Wing, with the key word and regulation (52-16) specifying "unit".
As we point out on a regular basis, it's OK to actually read the regulations.

We've argued this before, but in the broad sense of the regs, all of the following are units: squadron, group, wing (XX001), and region (XX001). I agree that in the narrower sense, squadrons are most often synonymous with units, but considering a group as a unit in the current discussion isn't out of line.

[Bluelakes 13]

Cadet Heberling,

Does your unit have an active Color Guard?  If not, that would be a good start.  Emphasize the Color Guard and work with other Color Guards in your Group/Wing.

Only if there is a lot of interest with Color Guard do you take the next step up to Honor Guard.  The HG will require additional uniform items which are not inexpensive.  There will also be additional material to learn.

Certainly a high endeavor, but I would suggest start with a Color Guard first.

[arajca]

If a Squadron has the Cadet base and enthusiasm to start any type of extracurricular team but is holding it back due to Senior Member disinterest, something is terribly wrong!!!

YOU and other cadets may think it's terribly wrong, but seniors spend a whole lot more time on CAP work away from meetings than cadets realize. I typically spend 10 hours per week on sqdn work in addition to the 1.5 hr drive each way and 2.5 hr meeting and .75 before/after meeting work. This does not include my wing level duties. Any activity requires hours of work on the part of seniors in addition to all their regular CAP work and employment and family. A long term activity, such as color guard, drill team, etc, can be very time consuming for all the support work that is required.

If you have enough seniors, great, but most seniors are doing triple or more duty already. Most of us just don't have the time.

[Spaceman3750]

If a Squadron has the Cadet base and enthusiasm to start any type of extracurricular team but is holding it back due to Senior Member disinterest, something is terribly wrong!!!

YOU and other cadets may think it's terribly wrong, but seniors spend a whole lot more time on CAP work away from meetings than cadets realize. I typically spend 10 hours per week on sqdn work in addition to the 1.5 hr drive each way and 2.5 hr meeting and .75 before/after meeting work. This does not include my wing level duties. Any activity requires hours of work on the part of seniors in addition to all their regular CAP work and employment and family. A long term activity, such as color guard, drill team, etc, can be very time consuming for all the support work that is required.

If you have enough seniors, great, but most seniors are doing triple or more duty already. Most of us just don't have the time.

+1

[shlebz]

Cadet Heberling,

Does your unit have an active Color Guard?  If not, that would be a good start.  Emphasize the Color Guard and work with other Color Guards in your Group/Wing.

Only if there is a lot of interest with Color Guard do you take the next step up to Honor Guard.  The HG will require additional uniform items which are not inexpensive.  There will also be additional material to learn.

Certainly a high endeavor, but I would suggest start with a Color Guard first.

yes, we do have an active color guard. Since i am a Cadet Officer I am not elligable to participate on the color guard 99% of the time, since they are either practicing for competition or the actual color guard members are there to perform.