California Cadet Programs Conference

[Noah Chun]

I am still a bit confused on what exactly goes on at CPC in California Wing. I have never gone there in my whole CAP career so I am basing my comments on CPC on what other cadets have said.

From what I have heard, CPC is a meet and greet old and new cadet friends from all over California; it has more cadets teaching then learning at the event; there is a banquet (and dancing), and it announces the next cadet commander and cadet group commanders for the annual California Wing Encampment. I have also heard rumors among the cadets who have gone that the senior members get drunk at CPC as well.

These could be reasons why cadets aren't willing to go to CPC and I know that's why I haven't gone for the 5 years I have been in CAP. I am not willing to pay 85 dollars to go to an event 8 hours away just to meet new and old friends, attend seminars (which are not always as promising as they suggest) and pay another 38 dollars to go the banquet.

CPC would be more worth it cadets if there were more seminars that would focus more on special programs. For example, there should be a seminar for color guard where cadets interested in starting a color guard or continuing a color guard can learn from previous competitors. I understand that the seminar is already there but instead of having just one block of seminar time, wouldn't it be better for cadets intent on color guard to spend the whole CPC learning about color guard? This would apply to CAC, Encampment, DDR, Emergency Service, etc. It's good to have a variety but I would rather have a focused reason for going to CPC. I would go if there was a weekend seminar solely talking about CAC. I am pretty sure that many other cadets around the wing would come if there was a weekend seminar on Emergency Services, Encampment, Drill team, or Color Guard.

CPC should have weekend long seminars so that cadets can come for a single specific seminar. This way those cadets can go back and spread what they learned about the seminar and help to get some programs started at their squadron on firmer ground.

Some of the rumors I have heard about CAC may not be true, but I have heard the same rumors many times from different cadets and I believe that there is some truth in what they have been saying.

I'm just a cadet of California Wing giving my input on CPC in California.

[Eclipse]

Sounds like you are someone who should be volunteering for the planning committee, however spreading unsubstantiated rumors,
especially as an anon poster is not cricket.

[Extremepredjudice]

Sounds like you are someone who should be volunteering for the planning committee, however spreading unsubstantiated rumors,
especially as an anon poster is not cricket.

He ain't anonymous.

His name is in his username. He listed his squadron. A quick blacked out google and I found his squadron.

Oddly, they have sergeants as flight commanders. 

[Noah Chun]

.

[Noah Chun]

Oddly, they have sergeants as flight commanders. 

We have one Chief as a flight commander soon to become a officer. Any ways, I have not seen any regulations in CAP where it says that the Cadet flight commander must be an Officer.

[Noah Chun]

Oh, I see what you did. The staff you were looking at was around 4-5 years ago. If you want a more recent site here it is, http://sq47.org/

[Eclipse]

The roles and responsibilities of a flight commander are generally inappropriate for cadets who are not yet  officers as they have not
been trained in the ways of indirect leadership.  Many unit CC's are under the mistaken impression that this role must be filled despite
not having cadets at the appropriate grades, or the opinion of many experienced leaders in the CAP who believe that ascension
in the cadet ranks in advance of grade is a factor in cadets who leave because they have exhausted their local staff options too early.

I did not see your full contact information in your sig when I originally responded.  You might as well prepare yourself for the inevitable
"discussion" you will soon be having with your local leadership regarding your posting assertions that leaders in your wing have been
intoxicated during CAP activities.

As a phase III cadet you should be more than aware of proper internet behavior, and as to your issues with the activity you
are describing, you have more than enough experience to volunteer to help "fix" it.

[Noah Chun]

I actually talked with them [my senior members] about it first and they agreed that something should be done about senior members going to the bar during CPC.

[Eclipse]

I actually talked with them about it first and they agreed that something should be done about senior members going to the bar during CPC.

I would hazard a guess that what "they" believed should be done was not marching into a public forum and shouting about those senior
members being intoxicated, especially since you didn't actually witness it.

As a matter of information, there are no regulations against senior members drinking alcohol or being in a bar during a CAP activity.

[Patterson]

The roles and responsibilities of a flight commander are generally inappropriate for cadets who are not yet  officers as they have not
been trained in the ways of indirect leadership.

From the guy who said "...however spreading unsubstantiated rumors...", then spreading his own rumors?!?!  I have seen more Cadet NCO's successfully lead a Flight than I have seen Cadet Officers.  We have more non-Cadet Officers than Cadet Officers.....if we enable the abilities earlier in younger NCO's could they not be able to lead a Flight?

Creating arbitrary benchmarks for particular leadership positions does not foster personal or unit growth.

Lets not get into the invertible argument that a 14 year old c/2d Lt who fast-tracked their way through the program as quickly as possible makes for a better Flight Commander.

[Eclipse]

That is not an "unsubstantiated rumor", that is a tenat of our program.

There are specific roles for Airman, NCO's, and officers.  The fact that sometimes we have people who fail up or down does not change that.

There are units that have or had NCO's as the Cadet Commander (or lower), the fact that they did it (even well) doesn't make it a good idea.
And I stand by the common opinion that advancing cadets before they are ready in terms of grade, both stifles advancement (by negating the
incentive), and tends to increase them leaving the program early.

[Extremepredjudice]

I actually talked with them about it first and they agreed that something should be done about senior members going to the bar during CPC.

I would hazard a guess that what "they" believed should be done was not marching into a public forum and shouting about those senior
members being intoxicated, especially since you didn't actually witness it.

As a matter of information, there are no regulations against senior members drinking alcohol or being in a bar during a CAP activity.

Getting faced in  front of a bunch of teenagers is always a good idea.  Talk about setting a good example. /sarcasm

I'd 2b that SM ASAP, but I'm a cadet. 

[Eclipse]

^ I would be inclined to do the same, however directly observing a senior member violating regulations, and then acting on that
observation privately and appropriately, is not that same as publicly saying "I heard from another cadet..."

[Noah Chun]

The focus of this thread was not to point fingers at the senior members drinking, but at the fact that if CPC was there for cadets, then CPC should be catered for them.

Those things said about CPC were just points of why I feel more should be done if CPC is going to be beneficial for the cadets and worth the price cadet's have to pay. Senior members at CPC are supposed to be setting the standard for the cadets.

My senior members said senior members that go to CPC should avoid the bar during their stay at CPC. True, it may not have been to go online and 'shout' about those senior members but I never wanted to shout about anything. I wanted to give my input on what California's CPC was like and suggested a change.

Do you think that it's okay for senior members to drink during a cadet activity? (even if you don't believe that at California's CPC do drink, do you think that if they did, would it be okay?)

[Eclipse]

The focus of this thread was not to point fingers at the senior members drinking, but at the fact that if CPC was there for cadets, then CPC should be catered for them.

Yet you included it in an attempt to make a sideways indictment about those running this activity.

If it's not relevant, then you should not say it.

Do you think that it's okay for senior members to drink during a cadet activity?

Me personally?  No, but that is not what this thread is about, and my opinion only goes as far as my local influence and authority reach,
because the regs permit it, and many experienced leaders feel it is just as appropriate to show adults indulging responsibly in an effort
to show our cadets that drinking is not a "no or drunk" decision.

[Noah Chun]

I agree, that drunk seniors is not entirely relevant to what I wanted to say about CPC. I included that part because it was also what I have heard about CPC every year that cadets from my squadron go (except for the year when the National Commander came, in which case, the bar had been closed.)

[abdsp51]

How can one give input as to what goes on at CPC if one has never been to CPC?  I attended  CPC when I was a cadet and attended as staff and if I recall correctly and I could be wrong it was either a weekend or a week long activity.  I had fun while I was there even though I was working for most of it.  I paid one flat fee for everything plus or minus the gas money to the driver.  If you really want to know what goes on at CPC go and see for yourself and make a decision don't do base it off of second hand information.  That away you can give proper insight into a program that you feel needs to be fixed.  And for SMs drinking well if there is nothing in policy stating it is going to be a dry function then not much really could be done however common should be applied ie don't get tanked at the activity.

[Noah Chun]

You attended as a cadet... Have you attended CPC recently? Because I was told CPC used to be great for cadets but in the recent years something has gone wrong... So I agree, it must have been great back then, but now CPC in California needs some work.

[abdsp51]

I had a great time then, and yes it was years ago. However should not make a judgement against something that you have yet to experience?  How can you truly fix what is allegedly or perceived as broken unless you know for sure it is? 

[Noah Chun]

Maybe I would have had a great time, if I had gone during the time you had gone. But nowadays, the cadets in my squadron are not willing to go to CPC. So far, in the past years, only our Color Guards have gone because they are asked to come and teach a seminar. They only go so that they can teach others about color guard. (The Color Guards we send are not the same teams). The color guards told me they went because it was free. If they had to pay, they would not have gone because it wasn't worth it.

[abdsp51]

Ok can you honestly say it's broken and needs to be fixed if you have not been?

[Noah Chun]

No, but I believe the suggestion I gave will help CPC to be better (refer back to the first post).

[abdsp51]

IMO you should not try to suggest something is broken and how to fix it if you have not had the experience.   I do not know if that sentiment is shared and I am going to leave it at that.

[Noah Chun]

The only thing I want anyone to take from this is that, in California, it would be better to have a weekend long seminar for Color Guard so that those that want to start a Color Guard back at their squadron will have a firmer ground to start on rather than the short and extremely general Color Guard seminar.

[Eclipse]

^ Then say that.

Impuning another activity that you have no direct knowledge of because it doesn't focus on one subject is not a good way to go about it, and while it
may be 8-hours away for you, it's in the back yard for others, such is the reality of large states with small memberships (as all of our wings are). Further,
the nature and purpose of wing-level conferences is to expose the participants to a wide-range of topics at a fairly superficial level so that your interest is
peaked and you have enough information to take back home and get started locally.

How about running your own Color Guard seminar in your area and fixing the problem?

[BillB]

Several years ago Capt (later Major) David Leali started the Florida Wing Color Guard Academy. It must have worked since Florida Wing Color Guard teams have won National CG Comp I believe 5 times in seven years.

[PA Guy]

C/Capt Chun,

You need to get out more and gather some facts instead of relying on second/third hand info and war stories.

[PHall]

This years CPC is under totally different management. There will be some changes from what has happened in the last few years.
So most of the "war stories" that date from the last few years are obsolete.
So come on down, take a look at what's happening and tell us what we did right and what we need to improve.

[excellenceiawd]

I have been to CPC before, but I did not think it was worth my weekend. The cadets that attended did not have respect that a cadet should. There were no senior members present inside the whole barracks. I hope this problem changes this year. About the seminars, I've recently found out that there will be a zombie survival seminar along with other seminars this year. Will the cadets really need this in the future? Or is this just a funny idea from today's games.
I hope that there will be better classes that cadets who attend could use in the squadron when they return, and teach others the new, useful tips that will guide them.

[Extremepredjudice]

The military has a guide book on zombie survival

[Eclipse]

^ Yes, and generally they are tongue-in-cheek presentations that cloak general disaster survival and preparedness information
within an the humorous context of a zombie Apocalypse.

[Extremepredjudice]

No, it was more of the serious survival type books. Basically it was wilderness survival, with a few other things tossed in.

[NCRblues]

That sounds like an amazing time!!

CAP and zombie invasion survival!!

[Extremepredjudice]

I wonder how many ELTs would be going off during a zombie apocalypse...?

[NCRblues]

I wonder how many ELTs would be going off during a zombie apocalypse...?

Well, if we want to get a little zombie geeky here...

If you take the recent Resident Evil movie as an example....

When the female main character arrives in Alaska looking for "arcadia" and finds a field full of A/C, you have to assume there are a lot of "pilots" that did not make it. Flying from the lower 48 up into Canada then on into Alaska with no weather/GPS/ATC would be VERY hard for many pilots....so assume a 1 in 5 shot of actually making it to Alaska (safety if you will) and you have a LOT of ELTs....

[a2capt]

Zombie Jamboree
Zombie Jamboree-Harry Belafonte

[Ron1319]

I went two years ago and even helped instruct a couple of classes.  You have to ask yourself what you expect to get out of the activity and what would make it worthwhile to you.  If you want a color guard training, CPC is not the event for you.  It's a conference.  There are seminars and classes and social time.  A couple of our cadets put together a long list of things that they would have changed about the event. 

I found the lining up of the NCO guys outside of the banquet hall and the parading of the girls and their dates to be not in line with what I expect from CAP.  A couple of the girls who I drove to the hall said that they found it disrespectful and uncomfortable. 

I did not note any seniors who drank too much when I was there.  Some of us did have a beer in the bar before the banquet started.

Hopefully the new management will improve the activity.

What have you heard about CAC?

[Eclipse]

I found the lining up of the NCO guys outside of the banquet hall and the parading of the girls and their dates to be not in line with what I expect from CAP.  A couple of the girls who I drove to the hall said that they found it disrespectful and uncomfortable. 

From 50K that's sounds a little mini-Tailhook, and gets into the question of "Where were the seniors?" which always comes up when these "questionable"
idea come up.

[Ron1319]

I have no idea what a tail hook is other than something on the back of a fighter plane.  I think you're confusing institutionalized CAWG tradition with the action of an unsupervised cadet staff.  Don't worry, I've made the same mistake.

[Eclipse]

An institutionalized tradition that violates common sense and borders on harassment is no more legit than something unsupervised cadets do.

[abdsp51]

Wow C/NCOs do the escorting now??  When I went we had plenty of SM supervision and it was C/officers escorting.  And I can see their point on how that can make them feel uncomfy.

[CadetFriesen]

I just ran across this thread and thought I would throw in my $.02

As a CAWG Cadet that has been to the past 4 Cadet Programs Conferences (including staffing) and is helping with some of the planning for this years CPC, I assure you C/Capt Chun that this year has a very good Senior Member/Cadet Planning staff. While I don't agree with some comments about CPC's of years past (I have always had a great time), I do understand where you are coming from. I assure you, this year will be a blast. I encourage you and other Squadron 47 cadets to experience it yourselves instead of relying on second hand information. 


Respectfully,

C/Maj Daniel Friesen