dark blue grade for utility uniform

[CAPLAW]

I read that the dark blue grade has been authorized for the blue utility(flight suit)

Is there a place other than vanguard where it can be purchased?

Fixed topic title - MIKE

[DNall]

Wouldn't that be the same as USCG ODUs, or do they use pin on?

[JCJ]

http://www.1800nametape.com/navyinsignia.htm#Rank

[DNall]

hey yeah, there you go. No picture, but it's there.

[MIKE]

Wouldn't that be the same as USCG ODUs, or do they use pin on?

Pin on is standard... Cloth is optional.

No, Navy or CG insignia is not gonna cut it on CAP uniforms.  Sorry.

[JCJ]

I've bought from them and they're pretty good.  Some company in California (Quartermaster I think) also sells embroidered insignia on navy blue cloth, but they cater to Law Enforcement and I thought their insignia didn't look very good.

[JCJ]

Wouldn't that be the same as USCG ODUs, or do they use pin on?

Pin on is standard... Cloth is optional.

No, Navy or CG insignia is not gonna cut it on CAP uniforms.  Sorry.

Beg to differ - I have the cloth ones and they look fine.  They're identical to current (ultramarine blue background) ones except that they're on navy blue background.  That was indeed authorized about a year ago.  Metal, of course, is a no-go.

[ddelaney103]

Wouldn't that be the same as USCG ODUs, or do they use pin on?

Pin on is standard... Cloth is optional.

No, Navy or CG insignia is not gonna cut it on CAP uniforms.  Sorry.

Beg to differ - I have the cloth ones and they look fine.  They're identical to current (ultramarine blue background) ones except that they're on navy blue background.  That was indeed authorized about a year ago.  Metal, of course, is a no-go.

He's talking about the fact that USN/USCG embroidered grade is smaller than USA/USAF/CAP grade.  I checked the CGEX for full color on blue grade and it's noticably smaller.

[afgeo4]

I read that the dark blue grade has been authorized for the blue utility(flight suit)

Is there a place other than vanguard where it can be purchased?

Fixed topic title - MIKE

Where'd you read that?

[JohnKachenmeister]

Wouldn't that be the same as USCG ODUs, or do they use pin on?

Pin on is standard... Cloth is optional.

No, Navy or CG insignia is not gonna cut it on CAP uniforms.  Sorry.

Beg to differ - I have the cloth ones and they look fine.  They're identical to current (ultramarine blue background) ones except that they're on navy blue background.  That was indeed authorized about a year ago.  Metal, of course, is a no-go.

He's talking about the fact that USN/USCG embroidered grade is smaller than USA/USAF/CAP grade.  I checked the CGEX for full color on blue grade and it's noticably smaller.

There are also slight variations in the design of Navy/Marine/Coast Guard rank.

Fixed quote - MIKE

[JCJ]

I read that the dark blue grade has been authorized for the blue utility(flight suit)

Is there a place other than vanguard where it can be purchased?

Fixed topic title - MIKE

Where'd you read that?

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/Changes_to_Uniform_Manual.pdf

Item 1. e.

[JCJ]

Wouldn't that be the same as USCG ODUs, or do they use pin on?

Pin on is standard... Cloth is optional.

No, Navy or CG insignia is not gonna cut it on CAP uniforms.  Sorry.

Beg to differ - I have the cloth ones and they look fine.  They're identical to current (ultramarine blue background) ones except that they're on navy blue background.  That was indeed authorized about a year ago.  Metal, of course, is a no-go.

He's talking about the fact that USN/USCG embroidered grade is smaller than USA/USAF/CAP grade.  I checked the CGEX for full color on blue grade and it's noticably smaller.

The embroidered grade on navy blue background from here

http://www.1800nametape.com/navyinsignia.htm#Rank

is the exact same size and configuration as the corresponding (current) plastic flight suit grade or epaulet grade.  At least for my grade.

I don't have any relationship with them, I just like their product.

[Nick]

Eh... guys... I'd be very careful about using Navy/CG insignia for CAP.  For 2Lt, 1Lt, and Col you're fine... but with Capt, Maj and Lt Col, the bars or leafs are significantly different between the branches.

Just a friendly warning.

[Monty]

Wouldn't that be the same as USCG ODUs, or do they use pin on?

Pin on is standard... Cloth is optional.

No, Navy or CG insignia is not gonna cut it on CAP uniforms.  Sorry.

Beg to differ - I have the cloth ones and they look fine.  They're identical to current (ultramarine blue background) ones except that they're on navy blue background.  That was indeed authorized about a year ago.  Metal, of course, is a no-go.

You talkin' 'bout these? 

http://www.qmuniforms.com/search.asp?SKW=CATSD_0169&CAT=Military%2FTactical.Badges%2FPatches%2FInsignia

They seem to say that you could get these on blue or back background, but either I'm not awake enough or the shopping cart doesn't give you any background option other than black.....

Other than that, these look much better (at least for our uses) from just the pictures than the NEX major (LCDR) leaves I got.... 

[ddelaney103]

Wouldn't that be the same as USCG ODUs, or do they use pin on?

Pin on is standard... Cloth is optional.

No, Navy or CG insignia is not gonna cut it on CAP uniforms.  Sorry.

Beg to differ - I have the cloth ones and they look fine.  They're identical to current (ultramarine blue background) ones except that they're on navy blue background.  That was indeed authorized about a year ago.  Metal, of course, is a no-go.

He's talking about the fact that USN/USCG embroidered grade is smaller than USA/USAF/CAP grade.  I checked the CGEX for full color on blue grade and it's noticably smaller.

The embroidered grade on navy blue background from here

http://www.1800nametape.com/navyinsignia.htm#Rank

is the exact same size and configuration as the corresponding (current) plastic flight suit grade or epaulet grade.  At least for my grade.

I don't have any relationship with them, I just like their product.

That's good to know.  I've used this company before, I believe.  I ordered AF skill badges in white on ultramarine blue from them, though I don't see the badges on the website.

[Eclipse]

Interestingly the letter says "will" which would mean "required" but there is no phase out or sundown on the light blue...

[DNall]

Interestingly the letter says "will" which would mean "required" but there is no phase out or sundown on the light blue...

Which is a mistake, but that writing means mandatory effective immediately. I think the intent was to leave it open ended till vanguard actually caught up & get it fixed as mandatory in the manual re-write that's supposedly going to get all this new stuff included.

[davedove]

Interestingly the letter says "will" which would mean "required" but there is no phase out or sundown on the light blue...

Which is a mistake, but that writing means mandatory effective immediately. I think the intent was to leave it open ended till vanguard actually caught up & get it fixed as mandatory in the manual re-write that's supposedly going to get all this new stuff included.

"e. Embroidered grade insignia on flight suits. Embroidered grade insignia, as
well as the currently authorized plastic encased insignia, is now authorized on the CAP
distinctive flight suits. Ultramarine blue grade insignia will be worn on the ultramarine blue
NOMEX flight suit. Dark blue embroidered grade insignia will be worn on the dark blue
utility uniform and new NOMEX flight suit. The dark blue grade insignia will be available
shortly from Vanguard."

The way I read it is, the emboidered insignia is authorized.  If you choice to use it instead of the plastic encased, the colors are mandated, so no ultramarine on the dark blue uniforms.  If the statement was taken alone I can see the confusion, but when the whole paragraph is considered it makes sense.

[DNall]

Okay, that makes sense. My understanding is that the dark blue utility coveralls were cut or in the process & the royal blue flt suit was too.

Ultramarine is auth on green flt suit now too, and that looks a little wierd, but I'm getting used to it. Better than plastic.

[Monty]

Okay, that makes sense. My understanding is that the dark blue utility coveralls were cut or in the process & the royal blue flt suit was too.

Ultramarine is auth on green flt suit now too, and that looks a little wierd, but I'm getting used to it. Better than plastic.

It is?  Whoa, I missed that....  Blech!  (Although I confess that I didn't look too terribly hard...)

[JCJ]

Wouldn't that be the same as USCG ODUs, or do they use pin on?

Pin on is standard... Cloth is optional.

No, Navy or CG insignia is not gonna cut it on CAP uniforms.  Sorry.

Beg to differ - I have the cloth ones and they look fine.  They're identical to current (ultramarine blue background) ones except that they're on navy blue background.  That was indeed authorized about a year ago.  Metal, of course, is a no-go.

You talkin' 'bout these? 

http://www.qmuniforms.com/search.asp?SKW=CATSD_0169&CAT=Military%2FTactical.Badges%2FPatches%2FInsignia

They seem to say that you could get these on blue or back background, but either I'm not awake enough or the shopping cart doesn't give you any background option other than black.....

Other than that, these look much better (at least for our uses) from just the pictures than the NEX major (LCDR) leaves I got.... 

Bought some from these guys too.  Not impressed.  My grade insignia has a 'right" and a "left'.  They sent me all "right" and no 'left".  When I asked them about it, they said "we are not mil-spec".  Later they sent me some with both sides, but I don't like them as well as the other company.

[JCJ]

Okay, that makes sense. My understanding is that the dark blue utility coveralls were cut or in the process & the royal blue flt suit was too.

Ultramarine is auth on green flt suit now too, and that looks a little wierd, but I'm getting used to it. Better than plastic.

Also don't think so, but I could be wrong.  Got a reference?

[SarDragon]

I just checked out all the uniform stuff I have downloaded, and it looks like only the plastic encased grade insignia are allowed on the green flight suit.  Cloth insignia of the proper background color or the plastic encased grade insignia are authorized on the blue flight suits.

Also, the ultramarine blue flight suit has a phase-out date of 1 March 2009.

[SarDragon]

Bought some from these guys too.  Not impressed.  My grade insignia has a 'right" and a "left'.  They sent me all "right" and no 'left".  When I asked them about it, they said "we are not mil-spec".  Later they sent me some with both sides, but I don't like them as well as the other company.

What grade insignia do you wear that has a left and a right? As far as I know, the only "sided" AF or CAP grade insignia are colonel eagles. The only other "sided" grade I have seen in any service is USN Petty Officer collar insignia.

[JCJ]

Bought some from these guys too.  Not impressed.  My grade insignia has a 'right" and a "left'.  They sent me all "right" and no 'left".  When I asked them about it, they said "we are not mil-spec".  Later they sent me some with both sides, but I don't like them as well as the other company.

What grade insignia do you wear that has a left and a right? As far as I know, the only "sided" AF or CAP grade insignia are colonel eagles. The only other "sided" grade I have seen in any service is USN Petty Officer collar insignia.

I believe you are correct - and I am not a petty officer (although I was years ago)

[DNall]

I just checked out all the uniform stuff I have downloaded, and it looks like only the plastic encased grade insignia are allowed on the green flight suit.  Cloth insignia of the proper background color or the plastic encased grade insignia are authorized on the blue flight suits.

Knowledge base

Yeah guess that's right. I'd heard the policy on Corporates & then heard the auth for green flight suits had come in around the same time as the goretex. My mistake I guess. Could have sworn that was right. Sorry about that.

[Monty]

You know....how is it that these things are already being made by somebody (dark blue embroidered insignia) but some of the "CAP intelligence" seekers haven't found it yet?   

See the photo from today's "CAP News Online?"

http://capmsi.org/documents/NVwinter2hijpg.jpg

I really have a feeling that Vanguard is still making these....we just haven't asked the right way or found a good customer service person to vector us towards the right answer...

(Strangely enough...this is the ONLY uniform item dealy-o I would really speak passionately about.  It wasn't too hard to put plastic lieutenant bars on the blue flight suit but the leaves, on the other hand.....those are difficult for ye 'ole sewing machine....  Multi-contoured and what not...a real pain to sew on nicely...)

[AlphaSigOU]

I really have a feeling that Vanguard is still making these....we just haven't asked the right way or found a good customer service person to vector us towards the right answer...

(Strangely enough...this is the ONLY uniform item dealy-o I would really speak passionately about.  It wasn't too hard to put plastic lieutenant bars on the blue flight suit but the leaves, on the other hand.....those are difficult for ye 'ole sewing machine....  Multi-contoured and what not...a real pain to sew on nicely...)

Best person to contact about Vanguard stuff via e-mail is Beth Maul - cap@vanguardmil.com.

[Monty]

I really have a feeling that Vanguard is still making these....we just haven't asked the right way or found a good customer service person to vector us towards the right answer...

(Strangely enough...this is the ONLY uniform item dealy-o I would really speak passionately about.  It wasn't too hard to put plastic lieutenant bars on the blue flight suit but the leaves, on the other hand.....those are difficult for ye 'ole sewing machine....  Multi-contoured and what not...a real pain to sew on nicely...)

Best person to contact about Vanguard stuff via e-mail is Beth Maul - cap@vanguardmil.com.

Well, I said I'd speak passionately about them.  But.....I wouldn't (and hadn't) gotten into too much of a fess so as to call up Beth.  (We know her...my son think's her "Star Wars" last name is cool.)

I do bet, however, that there are enough uniform item lovers out there that this will be figured out in short order.  I can wait until then....been waiting this long.   

[SarDragon]

You know....how is it that these things are already being made by somebody (dark blue embroidered insignia) but some of the "CAP intelligence" seekers haven't found it yet?   

See the photo from today's "CAP News Online?"

http://capmsi.org/documents/NVwinter2hijpg.jpg

I really have a feeling that Vanguard is still making these....we just haven't asked the right way or found a good customer service person to vector us towards the right answer...

(Strangely enough...this is the ONLY uniform item dealy-o I would really speak passionately about.  It wasn't too hard to put plastic lieutenant bars on the blue flight suit but the leaves, on the other hand.....those are difficult for ye 'ole sewing machine....  Multi-contoured and what not...a real pain to sew on nicely...)

YGBSM. The Captain bars I took off were no easier then the Major Leaves I just put on. Use a skinny foot on the machine, and sew all the way out at the edge.

Or, in my latest iteration, glue the rank to hook Velcro, and the pile Velcro to the bag.

[PhotogPilot]

You know....how is it that these things are already being made by somebody (dark blue embroidered insignia) but some of the "CAP intelligence" seekers haven't found it yet?   

See the photo from today's "CAP News Online?"

http://capmsi.org/documents/NVwinter2hijpg.jpg

I really have a feeling that Vanguard is still making these....we just haven't asked the right way or found a good customer service person to vector us towards the right answer...

(Strangely enough...this is the ONLY uniform item dealy-o I would really speak passionately about.  It wasn't too hard to put plastic lieutenant bars on the blue flight suit but the leaves, on the other hand.....those are difficult for ye 'ole sewing machine....  Multi-contoured and what not...a real pain to sew on nicely...)

YGBSM. The Captain bars I took off were no easier then the Major Leaves I just put on. Use a skinny foot on the machine, and sew all the way out at the edge.

Or, in my latest iteration, glue the rank to hook Velcro, and the pile Velcro to the bag.

Or take it all to the alteration shop across the street from your nearest military base, and let the nice lady who can do it in her sleep deal with it.

[DNall]

Assuming you're remotely near a base, in which case absolutely go that route. It's worth the few bucks just to avoid the time & frustration.

I think thunderbirds are embroidered right onto the fltsuit, just like the name/number

[Guardrail]

You know....how is it that these things are already being made by somebody (dark blue embroidered insignia) but some of the "CAP intelligence" seekers haven't found it yet?   

See the photo from today's "CAP News Online?"

http://capmsi.org/documents/NVwinter2hijpg.jpg

Interesting.  Taking a closer look, I think DNall is right; the grade insignia on Maj Malachowski's Thunderbirds uniform is embroidered.  I also noticed the difference in American flag patches on both uniforms... I wonder why that is?

BTW, what's with http://capmsi.org ?  Never seen or heard of that before.  Has National changed its URL?

[AlphaSigOU]

Interesting.  Taking a closer look, I think DNall is right; the grade insignia on Maj Malachowski's Thunderbirds uniform is embroidered.  I also noticed the difference in American flag patches on both uniforms... I wonder why that is?

BTW, what's with http://capmsi.org ?  Never seen or heard of that before.  Has National changed its URL?

CAP Middle School Initiative. There must have been a web page about it, but now it redirects to cap.gov.

Thunderchicken and Blues show flight suits are custom tailored to the individual pilot. When they're not interacting with the public, it's back to the green bag.

[Monty]

You know....how is it that these things are already being made by somebody (dark blue embroidered insignia) but some of the "CAP intelligence" seekers haven't found it yet?   

See the photo from today's "CAP News Online?"

http://capmsi.org/documents/NVwinter2hijpg.jpg

Interesting.  Taking a closer look, I think DNall is right; the grade insignia on Maj Malachowski's Thunderbirds uniform is embroidered.  I also noticed the difference in American flag patches on both uniforms... I wonder why that is?

Well, I'm no "alpha-male" sort (plenty of 'em are around the forums, though - ha) but I am nearly 100% certain that they are, in fact, separate insignia sewn down to the uniform epaulets for the T-birds, just as we would use them.

(My monitor is set to see a faint distinction for her sewn on grade...perhaps there's a brightness/contrast difference between what you're seeing and what I'm seeing?  I've also got this mega-huge monitor which makes it easier to see details big.  I'm ready for old age!  Ha)

I know from having spoken with them (T-birds) in person in 2004, they were sewn on insignia back then....though I admit that things could have changed, I suspect they've not.

YGBSM. The Captain bars I took off were no easier then the Major Leaves I just put on. Use a skinny foot on the machine, and sew all the way out at the edge.

Or, in my latest iteration, glue the rank to hook Velcro, and the pile Velcro to the bag.

Now brother, you know what I'd say - I'm the cheap SOB that won't go buy a different piece for the sewing machine just for one specific set of insignia in contrast to the others!   

As for the velcro option...well, one still has to get those insignia on to the hook-side of the velcro and the problem could/would still be present.  (Ok, I admit it...I'm also not one for the velcro-rank insignia either...  One bad hangup with the seat belt and one is automatically demoted - ha ha ha.  Maybe that's a good thing!)   

Oh yeah, by the way....what is YGBSM? Y'all with your letters...   

[shorning]

Now brother, you know what I'd say - I'm the cheap SOB that won't go buy a different piece for the sewing machine just for one specific set of insignia in contrast to the others!   

As for the velcro option...well, one still has to get those insignia on to the hook-side of the velcro and the problem could/would still be present.  (Ok, I admit it...I'm also not one for the velcro-rank insignia either...  One bad hangup with the seat belt and one is automatically demoted - ha ha ha.  Maybe that's a good thing!)   

Which I why I recommend duct tape...

Oh yeah, by the way....what is YGBSM? Y'all with your letters...   

YGBSM.  You can figure out the other meanings...

[SarDragon]

Or, in my latest iteration, glue the rank to hook Velcro, and the pile Velcro to the bag.

As for the velcro option...well, one still has to get those insignia on to the hook-side of the velcro and the problem could/would still be present.

See above. Glue. No sewing!

[MIKE]

Bump: Dark blue grade insignia available from Civil Air Patrol Store

Noticed this the other day, so I figured I'd mention it.

[Hawk200]

Bump: Dark blue grade insignia available from Civil Air Patrol Store

Noticed this the other day, so I figured I'd mention it.

Noticed that today, but got a (probably stupid) question: Is this authorized for wear on the Blue BDU's?  Seemed like there was something about navy blue accoutrements, but don't remember when it was mentioned.

Probably read too fast, but couldn't find it.

[MIKE]

e. Embroidered grade insignia on flight suits. Embroidered grade insignia, as
well as the currently authorized plastic encased insignia, is now authorized on the CAP
distinctive flight suits. Ultramarine blue grade insignia will be worn on the ultramarine blue
NOMEX flight suit. Dark blue embroidered grade insignia will be worn on the dark blue
utility uniform and new NOMEX flight suit. The dark blue grade insignia will be available
shortly from Vanguard.

[Hawk200]

e. Embroidered grade insignia on flight suits. Embroidered grade insignia, as
well as the currently authorized plastic encased insignia, is now authorized on the CAP
distinctive flight suits. Ultramarine blue grade insignia will be worn on the ultramarine blue
NOMEX flight suit. Dark blue embroidered grade insignia will be worn on the dark blue
utility uniform and new NOMEX flight suit. The dark blue grade insignia will be available
shortly from Vanguard.

I saw that letter, but I remember reading somewhere that it was going to be authorized on BBDU's. Is there a reference for that? Or is the above the only current reference on the navy blue background rank?

[DNall]

I thiught it was already authorized w/ BBDU? Man it really is hard to keep up with the details these days. I guess if you change the rules often enough no one will know them well enough to bother you about yours.

[ddelaney103]

I saw that letter, but I remember reading somewhere that it was going to be authorized on BBDU's. Is there a reference for that? Or is the above the only current reference on the navy blue background rank?

I haven't seen any changes to the field uniform and since the tapes are still ultramarine I don't see them changing the grade insignia.