May have gone a bit to far........

[capmaj]

http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/10/13/2443494/civil-air-patrol-to-withhold-services.html?storylink=addthis

[RADIOMAN015]

http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/10/13/2443494/civil-air-patrol-to-withhold-services.html?storylink=addthis

I don't blame that senior member for getting angry.  HOWEVER, he has NO right to go on private property and take an item away from anyone.  He should have dialed 911 immediately when the laser was pointed/shinned at him.   Also as far as the statements made to the press on withholding CAP services, I highly doubt he has that authority to do that.  Not sure why CAP was even pulled into this by the member.  Also "no comment" from the wing is terrible public relations.   It looks to me like he has put his continued CAP membership in danger.

BTW we recently had an incident locally with a red laser being pointed at a state police helicopter on patrol.  The helo, stopped went back to the area, turned on it's surveillance system and video taped the individual.  Called the local PD to respond to the exact address and ID the subject, and also notified the local airport control tower of the incident that was also going to be reported to the FAA (federal offense).
RM     

[Chappie]

You think a bit too far?     This has all the makings of an IG investigation and a change of command ceremony for the squadron.

[davidsinn]

You think a bit too far?      This has all the makings of an IG investigation and a change of command ceremony for the squadron.

There was stupidity all around in this case.

[Flying Pig]

So this incident actually had nothing to do with CAP correct?  It just so happens that the person involved is a member?

So you get charged by your local LE agency for a crime (whether legit or not) and then as a CAP commander, you can say "Well, -------- County, Im not letting you use my CAP planes anymore".  Sorry dude, as a former SqCC with aircraft under my charge, Id say thats, oh, I dunno, a conflict of interest?

Your now going to try and use CAP assets as a way to get back at the county government that arrested you?  Nope.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't think this joker has the authority to deny assets.  There are people further up the food chain who make that decision.  He's a squadron commander (?).  There will be Group, Wing, Region and National people with more brass on their epaulettes and farts and darts on their caps who make those decisions.

Captain Sinn said there was stupidity all round on this - firmly agreed.

Act One - The kid pointing the laser at anyone.  Ask almost any LEO how s/he would react to that, given how many weapons have laser sights.

Act Two - CAP guy is (rightfully) P.O.'d and (wrongfully) goes on private property.  Better course of action: take cell phone, call police and report.

Act Three - P.O.'d CAP guy lays hands on minor child forcefully, takes laser "toy" and absconds with it.

Act Four - P.O.'d CAP guy makes statement to LEO about "withholding CAP services" that he has no right to make.

2B or not 2B?

[Major Lord]

The report does make the CAP member sound as if he handled the situation poorly. If you find it necessary to seize an item from a person by force, you should 1) Make sure that what the person did was a crime. ( Is blinding drivers with a LASER a violation of Law in Florida?) and 2) if you use any force against a person for nearly any reason, you had better be prepared to make a citizens arrest, otherwise, you are just a thief, a batterer, and a person committing false arrest/ false imprisonment. Arrest do yes,Arrest do no, no Arrest do so-so! ( to borrow a saying from Mr Miyagi)

Point a laser at me and the last thing you are likely to see is a muzzle flash, since light goes faster than lead. If it was obviously a kid with a LASER pointer, actively lighting up drivers, I would be inclined to call the PD or detain the little brat. ( Kids in California can't commit crimes generally, they are just " Minors in danger of leading an idle, dissolute, or immoral life", to paraphrase the Welfare and Institutions code.

Is there bad blood between the S.O. and CAP in this area? ( this happens a lot, for reasons just like the one described, and many other boneheaded CAP member brouhahas. ( A brouhaha is much worse than a simple "shenanigan") It is usually the Sheriff that makes us personae non gratae, not the other way around. if the S.O. has a burr under their blanket about CAP, and takes it out on members, taking a step back and waiting to see if they still think we are needed would be prudent. If this is the typical CAP member "Commander" drunk with his godlike powers, it may be time to send him out to take inventory of the spoons, or other vitally important task. I would love to hear the full story before assuming that a CAP member was an idiot and the S.O ( and media) was right. One vital rule I remember from the police academy was that every story you read in the media is 100% accurate....except for those you have personal knowledge of! ( They don't care about ending sentence with prepositions in the police academy)

Major Lord

[N Harmon]

Commander or no commander, if I were to do this, I would not expect to be a CAP member for very much longer.

[ZigZag911]

This had no direct bearing on CAP.

Eventually it could affect CAP aircraft, if the kid took to shining his laser point in the sky.

A phone call to local LE would have been the appropriate course of action.

This unit CC should not have mentioned CAP at all, it reflects poorly on all of us...I hope FL WG is looking into this matter and addresses it.

[Larry Mangum]

South Carolina not Florida

[ZigZag911]

SC, of course, forgive me for a geographically challenged "Yankee"!

[lordmonar]

Anyone key on the fact that there are only 3 pilots in this unit?

SCWG needs to look real hard at this unit.

[tsrup]

Anyone key on the fact that there are only 3 pilots in this unit?

SCWG needs to look real hard at this unit.

why? 

sometimes that 3 more pilots than other squadrons.


Now it's very possible that he was just a tool bag and drove off a number of prospects.  One can do a lot of damage in that 11 year span as commander....

[jpizzo127]

Anyone key on the fact that there are only 3 pilots in this unit?

SCWG needs to look real hard at this unit.

why? 

sometimes that 3 more pilots than other squadrons.


Now it's very possible that he was just a tool bag and drove off a number of prospects.  One can do a lot of damage in that 11 year span as commander....

A poor commander can drive a squadron into the ground in 1 year, much less 11.

No term limits on squadron commander in South East Region?

If the story is accurate, and that's a BIG IF, this is an IG investigation and possible 2B.

Poor move on this commander's part if story is true. CAP should never have been brought into it. PERIOD.

But now that we are, the Wing needs to take action immedietly.

Just my humble opinion as a former squadron commander, thanks to term limits.

[AngelWings]

This guy is an idiot. No more, no less.

[SARDOC]

You think a bit too far?     This has all the makings of an IG investigation and a change of command ceremony for the squadron.

I'm thinking that there isn't time to plan a ceremony.  This is one of those change of command situations that occur over the phone.

[SARDOC]

Anyone key on the fact that there are only 3 pilots in this unit?

SCWG needs to look real hard at this unit.

Mine only has one pilot but over 75 members...why would the wing need to "look" at us?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'm thinking that there isn't time to plan a ceremony.  This is one of those change of command situations that occur over the phone.

As in a boot in the empennage with a 2B attached to it.

[lordmonar]

Anyone key on the fact that there are only 3 pilots in this unit?

SCWG needs to look real hard at this unit.

Mine only has one pilot but over 75 members...why would the wing need to "look" at us?

Do you have a plane?

[JeffDG]

No term limits on squadron commander in South East Region?

No, in SER Wing Commanders appoint good squadron CCs, regardless of how long they've held the job.  Amazing actually trusting Wing/CCs to make decisions.

That said, it has no bearing on this, as SC is not part of SER anyway.

[SARDOC]

Anyone key on the fact that there are only 3 pilots in this unit?

SCWG needs to look real hard at this unit.

Mine only has one pilot but over 75 members...why would the wing need to "look" at us?

Do you have a plane?

We do have custody of a plane but only because of the number of wing/group staff and neighboring squadrons in a close geographical proximity to our squadron...we logistically are just in a better position to be the "responsible" party.

[Persona non grata]

He should have just  should have OBSERVED AND REPORT!

[RADIOMAN015]

http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/10/13/2443494/civil-air-patrol-to-withhold-services.html?storylink=addthis

Also "no comment" from the wing is terrible public relations.   

Well the wing answered the press inquiry see:
http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/10/14/2444936/civil-air-patrol-will-continue.html
RM

[lordmonar]

The are looking will be looking for a new squadron commander soon. 

[RiverAux]

I wonder if that was a scenario in their crisis communication plan?   

[RRLE]

South Carolina not Florida

Good thing. Florida is a Shall Issue state and does not require a carry permit if a handgun is kept in the home and never carried outside the home. Florida has the Castle Doctrine. Florida also has the Stand Your Ground Law, which this guy was really pushing by entering private property (Castle Doctrine in play) and assaulting the kid, which a parent could easily take to be a violent and life/limb danger to the child (Stand Your Ground in play).

[JC004]

This is silly.  I had this occur once.  There were kids shining laser pointers at drivers, attempting specifically to get it in their eyes (according to their snickering and talking about it).  I saw a guy swerve, which made me nervous.  I called police.  Police came, took thing, put kids in trouble.  Done and done.

Then there's the "I won't be your friend nomores" approach to bringing CAP into it AAAAAAND getting it in the news to make CAP look childish.  My little brother, when he was just barely old enough to talk, used to say "I won't be your friend nomores" when you did something that offended him (like taking his toy).  Same thing here.

[MSG Mac]

I think his command time is 1 1/2 years not 11. The typesetter screwed up by putting the 1 and the 1/2 together

[JeffDG]

This is silly.  I had this occur once.  There were kids shining laser pointers at drivers, attempting specifically to get it in their eyes (according to their snickering and talking about it).  I saw a guy swerve, which made me nervous.  I called police.  Police came, took thing, put kids in trouble.  Done and done.

Then there's the "I won't be your friend nomores" approach to bringing CAP into it AAAAAAND getting it in the news to make CAP look childish.  My little brother, when he was just barely old enough to talk, used to say "I won't be your friend nomores" when you did something that offended him (like taking his toy).  Same thing here.

What are the chances that this guy never brought CAP into this.

I see a conversation going like this:

Victim:  Yeah, I don't see me helping out the county much now that they've charged me
Reporter:  Aren't the the commander of the local CAP squadron
Victim:  Yes, I am
Reporter:  Interesting...

Story:  Local CAP Commander Vows To Not Help Out The County.

See...no tie between him personally being POd with the county and him withholding CAP resources...but the headline makes the tie...Reporters would never make mistakes or sensationalize a story...nah, never.

Better not be too hasty in relieving the guy.

[RiverAux]

Apparently now charged with 3rd degree assault and petty larceny.

[bosshawk]

If convicted, that pretty much ends his CAP career, anyway.

[jimmydeanno]

If convicted, that pretty much ends his CAP career, anyway.

It should anyway, just based on the way he handled the situation.  Some rogue member who thinks they can make any decision they want, withhold our services, etc., doesn't need to be a member in the first place - guilty of the actual crimes, or not.

[DakRadz]

What are the chances that this guy never brought CAP into this.

I see a conversation going like this:

Victim:  Yeah, I don't see me helping out the county much now that they've charged me
Reporter:  Aren't the the commander of the local CAP squadron
Victim:  Yes, I am
Reporter:  Interesting...

Story:  Local CAP Commander Vows To Not Help Out The County.

See...no tie between him personally being POd with the county and him withholding CAP resources...but the headline makes the tie...Reporters would never make mistakes or sensationalize a story...nah, never.

Better not be too hasty in relieving the guy.

I'm all for healthy skepticism until an investigation, buuuuuuut:
"The officer, who said Teachout told him several times that he was a pilot for the Civil Air Patrol of Horry County, stopped Teachout because the phone call had gone from an interview to where Miranda Rights became an issue."

"This is ridiculous," said Teachout. "There can't be two victims in a victimless crime. I support Horry County, but if they don't have [the pilots'] backs then no thanks. We don't need to be here."

He definitely brought CAP into it. Kept saying he was a CAP pilot to get out of it.

NOTE:
Now, I do agree that "we don't need to be here" may have been exaggerated, but he should NEVER have brought CAP into this in the first place.

[RRLE]

There can't be two victims in a victimless crime

It wasn't a victimless crime. Assault and battery and larceny are crimes with a victim - the child.

[DakRadz]

Let's say it was a two-victim crime with plenty o' stupidity.

[coudano]

some people can't separate their CAP lives from the rest of their lives,
so when you assault joe blow in civvies riding his motor scooter down the road,
you are assaulting joe blow the air force auxiliary officer and pilot...

no separation whatsoever.


The guy should have called 911, and possibly snapped a photo of the perpetrator.

If he /REALLY/ wanted to stick it to em, he could have dumped his scooter as a result of being blinded and hit the family for medical damages.



Sounds to me like a lot of this has been going on in the area lately, and I imagine that there has been a building up of public negative sentiment toward it.  Not that excuses what he did, but it may explain how it came to a head.

We used to have kids throwing rocks at cars off overpasses,
kind of a similar deal.
The kids finally got busted...

[starshippe]

   i'm thinking this fella has/had been squadron cc for 1 and 1/2 years, not 11.
   oh i c someone beat me to it.
   never mind.


bill

[DG]

I feel sorry for any member of the Myrtle Beach Squadron or anyone in South Carolina Wing.  This will be remembered by those in the whole community, not just the pilot community, for 20 years.

The Squadron Commander Stephen Teachout was charged with assault on a child and larceny.

And then he is quoted by the local news as saying CAP will retaliate.

Headline reads: "Civil Air Patrol to withhold services from Horry County"

The article goes on to say:  "The Civil Air Patrol is a nonprofit, humanitarian organization with 60,000 members nationwide, according to the website of the Myrtle Beach Composite Squadron, which is a unit of the S.C. Wing, Civil Air Patrol. The Civil Air Patrol is the official civilian auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force."

CAP National needs to come out publicly to rebuke this guy and his actions.

[lordmonar]

No.....they don't

SCWG already has come out and put the lie to his statements.  They are investigating and will do what is necessary.

NHQ needs to just watch and make sure that SCWG does its job....but they don't have say or do anything to "help" the situation.

HERE IS WHY.

The squadron commander screwed the pooch on this one.
If NHQ comes in to "fix" it...then SCWG will have to live with the problem for years to come.
But if SCWG fixes themselves and shows their local customers that they are taking the correct and timely actions necessary....then they help restore confidence in the rest of the organisation.

We need to take care of our problems in house and at the lowest levels.

[DG]

No.....they don't

SCWG already has come out and put the lie to his statements.  They are investigating and will do what is necessary.

NHQ needs to just watch and make sure that SCWG does its job....but they don't have say or do anything to "help" the situation.

HERE IS WHY.

The squadron commander screwed the pooch on this one.
If NHQ comes in to "fix" it...then SCWG will have to live with the problem for years to come.
But if SCWG fixes themselves and shows their local customers that they are taking the correct and timely actions necessary....then they help restore confidence in the rest of the organisation.

We need to take care of our problems in house and at the lowest levels.

Yes.

Your point is well taken.

[Spaceman3750]

The SCWG website says the member in question is now suspended.

[N Harmon]

From SCWG Website:

CAP in the News
Written by Emerson Smith   
Saturday, 15 October 2011 06:29

CAP was featured on October 14, 2011 in an article in The Sun News (Myrtle Beach SC).  The story was about a CAP member driving down a highway in Horry County SC.  Reportedly, he noticed a child using a laser pointer to shine the light into the member's eyes and into the eyes of other drivers on the road.

In September 2011, due to repeated abuse of laser pointers, the City of Myrtle Beach passed an ordinance regulating the use of laser pointers.  Minors are now forbidden to possess a laser pointer.  This laser incident took place in Horry County where there is no specific regulation of laser pointers.

The CAP member allegedly stopped and took the laser pointer away from the child so that others on the highway would not have this laser pointed at their eyes.  Words were said by the member and by the parents of the child.  The police were called.  The parents pressed charges, leading to the member's arrest. All involved are now reportedly engulfed in controversy.  Reader comment on parental control of their children is extensive on this news article. Go to The Sun News to see the original story and updated stories on this incident.

The story is not really about the laser.  It is not really about the now-suspended member or the child or the child's parents.  These are very important issues for those immediately involved, but are surface stories.

The deep story is about the Civil Air Patrol and how essential Civil Air Patrol services are to each county in South Carolina.  This story got the attention of the National Commander of the Civil Air Patrol and involved many at the CAP national headquarters and at the SC Wing headquarters. It was distributed to newspapers across South Carolina and the United States.

The Civil Air Patrol, on a wing level and on the national level, is always concerned that the CAP has positive and informative messages in the news about our emergency services, our cadet program and about our aerospace education program.  Our members in each squadron have contributed to the success of the Civil Air Patrol image in South Carolina.

The Civil Air Patrol is perceived as essential as emergency medical technicians, as fire fighters, as police in protecting the people of South Carolina in the event of an emergency or disaster.  The story is that the Civil Air Patrol, thanks to the members in every county who lead, train, study, and teach others about how we can improve in our service to the people of South Carolina.  The South Carolina Wing of the Civil Air Patrol is, thanks to the good work of cadets and senior members, semper vigilans, always vigilant, always watchful, always looking for ways we can better serve the people of South Carolina.  This work is not easy and it is not without risk.  But it is worth the time that members serve in preparing for missions and in serving on missions.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Of course the worst rub of all is the County official saying they couldn't say what, if any impact CAP withdrawal would have anyway...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What's really going to reek is if the Air Force gets involved.

Three AF bases I know of in SC - Shaw AFB, Joint Base Charleston and McEntire ANGB.  I'm not sure if any of them host CAP facilities but it sure doesn't polish our reputation any in their eyes.

I'm not saying they will get involved...but it'd just be another perfect excuse for a knuckle-rapping from Ma Blue against those incorrigible CAP boys and girls.

At least this guy wasn't in uniform when he pulled this.

[PHall]

What's really going to reek is if the Air Force gets involved.

Three AF bases I know of in SC - Shaw AFB, Joint Base Charleston and McEntire ANGB.  I'm not sure if any of them host CAP facilities but it sure doesn't polish our reputation any in their eyes.

I'm not saying they will get involved...but it'd just be another perfect excuse for a knuckle-rapping from Ma Blue against those incorrigible CAP boys and girls.

At least this guy wasn't in uniform when he pulled this.

Why would the Air Force become involved in a internal matter of CAP?

The guy acts the fool, is suspended pending the outcome of the criminal case, and the world moves on.

[flyboy53]

I'm sure the Air Force side of the house was already informed.

As to their direct involvement, not likely, especially when the legal guys are probably already formulating a strategy that includes a 2b and showing this guy the door; the sooner the better due to the bad PR -- which actually affects all of us with the more media exposure this situation gets.

Instead of taking things into his own hands, he should have initiated a phone call to authorities as joe citizen, made the appropriate complaint and then let the chips fall as they might in court.

Just how overzealous and stupid can you be......

[Brad]

We have enough planes and pilots in the surrounding squadrons that even if this had come to pass then it wouldn't have hurt too much.

The real issue aside from the squadron commander overstepping his personal and CAP authority I found was the write-up of the article itself. It makes it seem like the Myrtle Beach squadron is doing all kinds of patrols and missing person searches for Forestry, Horry Co, the various beaches, etc. Sad to say that isn't true. Most of that is handled by SLED or city and county agencies.

We catch the occassional ELT beacon, but that's about it aside from some Homeland Security missions. Upstate gets more activity, yea, but it's sad to say the regular non-emergent non-federal agency missions are non-existant in SC