Ribbon Rack?

[James Shaw]

I was asking the National Historian his opinion on how many ribbons one should wear and his reply was
"everyone youv'e earned". Be proud of them all youve earned them!

The service jacket will hold 35 and still be in regs!

A member of the GAWG staff wears 33 on his.

[PhotogPilot]

As a member of the "White Shirt" club, I keep two versions of the short sleve shirt, a "high bling", with a 3x3 ribbon rack, full size wings, name plate and senior PAO badge, and a "low bling", with mini-wings, and name plate only. The one I wear depends on factors ranging from what I'm doing routine meeting or recruiting event or which one happens to be clean. (I don't own a corp service coat at the moment). I think it's a matter of personal preference.

ps to the Chief, one of your posts regarding the use of the word "bling" to signify decorations and awards has given me something to think about, I have to think up new designations. High and low carb maybe?

[Chappie]

Been reading and digesting all the posts in this thread .... here's my personal practice and philosophy:

1)  I never wear the ribbons on my short-sleeve blue shirt (or on those rare occassions with the white aviator) in keeping with the USAF Officers culture.  Many of our Chaplain Service Region Staff Colleges are conducted on active USAF bases...so it much easier never to have them on than have to remove them.

2)  Since cadets are not familiar with most of Senior Member Officers' training, any explanation of the ribbons would be lost on them.

3)  I do proudly wear my ribbons on the service dress jacket and the mini-medals on the mess dress since they are a visual "resume" of my CAP career.  While they may be considered easier to earn than those of cadets, it still took this old geezer some time and effort to earn them.  If and when I had been a cadet, I would not have received the Wright Brothers ribbon....I would have received the Icarus ribbon 

4)  My use of the term "bling" in previous posts was used in response to those who used the term -- it does irk me however for people to pursue the award without ever intending to utilize the training behind that particular award (IOW - awards for awards sake; a check in a box).  It is my hope that whatever award/recognition has been bestowed on me in my CAP career has been earned and would result in benefiting others. 

[DNall]

As a member of the "White Shirt" club, I keep two versions of the short sleve shirt, a "high bling", with a 3x3 ribbon rack, full size wings, name plate and senior PAO badge, and a "low bling", with mini-wings, and name plate only. The one I wear depends on factors ranging from what I'm doing routine meeting or recruiting event or which one happens to be clean. (I don't own a corp service coat at the moment). I think it's a matter of personal preference.

ps to the Chief, one of your posts regarding the use of the word "bling" to signify decorations and awards has given me something to think about, I have to think up new designations. High and low carb maybe?

Whatever, when the standards for earning abasic rating in something are soo low, or when it's so over the top you look like a dictator general cause you're concieted, that's bling.

FYI, the full size wings really are for the service coat, mini for the shirt. They used to be called shirt & jacket wings. There's no rule against it, but it looks really dumb.

[PhotogPilot]

To each his own. You may think the standards are too low, maybe they are. but I wear my uniform as I see fit in accordance with ALL applicable regulations. If the regs change, then I will change to comply. Almost everyone in my squadron who wears the aviator shirt combo weears full size wings, you might think it looks dumb, but on me, (not a "miniature" guy), the mini wings get lost. Plus, I don't think a rack of 9 ribbons, each of which earned IAW CAP regs, makes me look like a South American Banana Republic dictator.

[Monty]

The service jacket will hold 35 and still be in regs!

Don't forget that AAFES was good enough to make smaller-sized coats for we in the "munchkin gang" seniors, who round UP to 68" in height and are a buck fifty or so.

Our service dress coats are proportionately smaller than y'all's....less surface area for doodads won't equal 35 ribbons in my case without some staggering help (and yes, I would know.)



That was AFROTC 101 for us; look at bio photos.  If whomever photographed had small surface area between their lapels and the pocket flap, they were shorties like some of us.  The guy with 18 rows and no need to stagger was directly related to *Ho Ho Ho Green Giant* as sure as anything.   

[DNall]

To each his own. You may think the standards are too low, maybe they are. but I wear my uniform as I see fit in accordance with ALL applicable regulations. If the regs change, then I will change to comply. Almost everyone in my squadron who wears the aviator shirt combo weears full size wings, you might think it looks dumb, but on me, (not a "miniature" guy), the mini wings get lost. Plus, I don't think a rack of 9 ribbons, each of which earned IAW CAP regs, makes me look like a South American Banana Republic dictator.

There's regs (min standards) & then there's customs (cultural expectations) that exceed regs. If you don't follow both then people are going to look at you funny. There's nothing that says you can't wear full size wings on the shirt in the AF either, or minis on the service coat, but no one does it. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

9 ribbons isn't dictator style, in fact I didn't refer to anything about what you described as bling. I merely explained that bling refers to going overboard with it when really we're supposed to have this image as humble servants of the people & all.

[MIKE]

To each his own. You may think the standards are too low, maybe they are. but I wear my uniform as I see fit in accordance with ALL applicable regulations. If the regs change, then I will change to comply. Almost everyone in my squadron who wears the aviator shirt combo weears full size wings, you might think it looks dumb, but on me, (not a "miniature" guy), the mini wings get lost. Plus, I don't think a rack of 9 ribbons, each of which earned IAW CAP regs, makes me look like a South American Banana Republic dictator.

There's regs (min standards) & then there's customs (cultural expectations) that exceed regs. If you don't follow both then people are going to look at you funny. There's nothing that says you can't wear full size wings on the shirt in the AF either, or minis on the service coat, but no one does it. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Anyone care to qualify this statement, because it seems to me that most people in the AF are wearing regular sized wings/badges on the shirts and not minis.

[Monty]

To each his own. You may think the standards are too low, maybe they are. but I wear my uniform as I see fit in accordance with ALL applicable regulations. If the regs change, then I will change to comply. Almost everyone in my squadron who wears the aviator shirt combo weears full size wings, you might think it looks dumb, but on me, (not a "miniature" guy), the mini wings get lost. Plus, I don't think a rack of 9 ribbons, each of which earned IAW CAP regs, makes me look like a South American Banana Republic dictator.

There's regs (min standards) & then there's customs (cultural expectations) that exceed regs. If you don't follow both then people are going to look at you funny. There's nothing that says you can't wear full size wings on the shirt in the AF either, or minis on the service coat, but no one does it. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Anyone care to qualify this statement, because it seems to me that most people in the AF are wearing regular sized wings/badges on the shirts and not minis.

In my experience, small stuff on shirts, big stuff on coats.  9 times out of 10, if there are two sizes of something sold, it isn't because one size is for ladies and one size is for fellers....



The only real exception was that minis were always worn on the mess dress.  Perhaps I was so used to the way my fellow airmen and I did things, that I may not remember if there was a formal mention of the practice in 35-10/36-2903.

I do know that if there was the option for small stuff to go on shirts and mess dress uniforms and somebody wore the large, they'd have been laughed off the planet.

"Attempting to compensate for something, hero?"   

[Hawk200]

Anyone care to qualify this statement, because it seems to me that most people in the AF are wearing regular sized wings/badges on the shirts and not minis.

For the most part people in the Air Force wore full size ones. The biggest reason was that the detail on the minis was so fine that you had to get rather close to tell which one it was sometimes. In some instances, a little too close for some peoples comfort. But it wasn't uncommon to see minis worn on blue shirts/blouses. In a weeks time, I would see at least a couple people wearing them.

The Air Force has done away with the minis, and is currently going to the "mid size" badges for other than wings. The detail is better and doesn't require someone to get so close either. I believe the Army has followed suit, as all the smaller size badges I've seen in the Army military clothing are more in-line with the Air Force "mid size" badges. They seem to look better too.

[Hawk200]

The only real exception was that minis were always worn on the mess dress.  Perhaps I was so used to the way my fellow airmen and I did things, that I may not remember if there was a formal mention of the practice in 35-10/36-2903.

I believe there was in 35-10 (yes, I was in that far back), and I think earlier renditions of 36-2903 (prior to '98) required it. The previous copies of 2903 that I have state that the badges worn on mess dress may be all regular size, or all miniature.

The current reg requires midsize or regular size badges. With the usual caveat that you can't mix the two sizes, unless one is a medical badge (which were never made in miniature as far as I've found).

[DNall]

Well mid is the new mini for the purpose of this discussion. Full size service coat wings are huge. They'd look silly on a shirt, especialy office style w/o ribbons.

[Hawk200]

Well mid is the new mini for the purpose of this discussion. Full size service coat wings are huge. They'd look silly on a shirt, especialy office style w/o ribbons.

Yeah, pretty much. Give it a few years, and they will start calling those "mini".

After thinking about it, one thing I did see the Air Force that was more common was the aircrew types wearing "mini" wings on blue shirts/blouses. I don't know if that is why CAP does it that way or not. Would be interesting to know.

[Hammer]

There are miniature ribbons (not the enamel lapel pins, actual ribbons) available for the Air Force. I've seen them, but don't know where to get them. I think CAP should consider this, it would allow wear of a large amount of ribbons in a smaller space.

Are those authorized?  Anybody got pics and more info, cuz now you've got me curious///

[DNall]

I don't think there's anything in the reg one way or the other, but obviously they didn't plan for that & CAP versions aren't produced. That same place everyone always posts (with the thinner ribbons) does the minis, and they might actually do CAP minis also since they make all their own stuff, incl CAP ribbons.

Aircrew hoping people can't tell it's not pilot wings    No, I hadn't noticed any dif to tell you the truth. Seems like no one ever wore full-size on the shirt. Their freakin almost as wide as the pocket flap. That jsut looks really really wierd - I'd go with ameteurish, no offense to anyone that may like wearing it that way, just being honest what I'd think on seeing that.

[Hawk200]

There are miniature ribbons (not the enamel lapel pins, actual ribbons) available for the Air Force. I've seen them, but don't know where to get them. I think CAP should consider this, it would allow wear of a large amount of ribbons in a smaller space.

Are those authorized?  Anybody got pics and more info, cuz now you've got me curious///

They are authorized on the AF uniform, but I have yet to find the source. A good friend of mine saw a senior NCO at Air University wearing them, but he didn't get the chance to ask her about them. He asked me about them, as he hadn't seen them before.

The Air Force reg does mention criteria for mini ribbons, which are basically the same width as the cloth drape on mini medals (in other words only half as long). As DNall mentioned they are not authorized for CAP. It would be nice if they were, I could put everything on without stacking too high.

[Monty]

I've never seen such a thing....must be weird to see miniature ribbons...

[Hawk200]

I've never seen such a thing....must be weird to see miniature ribbons...

They're pretty recognizable as their full size counterparts. The biggest thing I like about the concept is that I can put two minis in the same space as one full size. Would reduce the size of my ribbon rack tremendously, without reducing number.

If you want to know what it really looks like, take a mini medal, and fold the drape under the hanger portion so that you don't see the drape. That's about it.

[James Shaw]

Found an interesting picture today!

Wear em if ya got em!

[Monty]

Found an interesting picture today!

Wear em if ya got em!

Glad you found those photos....did you happen to find the spot in 36-2903 that gives those fellers no alternative but to wear them ALL on their Service Dress coats?   

You'll likely find that AF Officers can roll right up to the epaulet and down their backs with their ribbons; they've no "notch" restriction, which thankfully CAP has for we big kids. 

BTW, you know that Mike Moseley is one of the folks that's overseeing an Air Force that's really ramped up it's trinkets lately, right?  Why, in fact...your photo of him is outdated - a new one was published recently with the new HQ AF badge below his nametag: http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6545

(If I so much as even see a new thread suggesting that we create headquarters badge now, I'm gonna get sick....pure dee sick.)