Ribbon Rack?

[Major Lord]

I think Cadets should wear every ribbon they have been awarded. They set an example to the lower level cadets, and the ribbons are a highly visible sign of achievement. Senior Members on the other hand, in my opinion, should only wear ribbons on service dress, since by tradition AF Officers don't wear Ribbons on blouses, but enlisted persons do. Cadets know that many Sr Member's ( or Officer's ) ribbons did not require the same degree of work to attain as Cadet  acheivements. For many cadets, wearing every ribbon they have earned is impossible, since they would have to go to a boy scout or Klingon style sash or carry a spare tunic to make them all fit. ( By the time my son earned his Spaatz award, there were Mexican admirals turning green with envy at all his cool awards)

I am a member of a secret group (tell no one of this!) that tries to get Cadets their NRA Qual medals, since this sends a distinctly kick-ass, take names message. Note that anyone can get basic Qual medals by qualifying in their backyard with a BB gun.

[Chief Chiafos]

During my active duty days 1965-1969 the Air Force was very stingy with ribbons and medals.  In four years of active duty I saw only one enlisted medal award - a commendation medal for the guy who wrote up medal submissions for pilots!

When the Air Force went all volunteer, and the Vietnam war ended, the opportunity for any kind of award (by old AF standards) dried up completely.  Airmen went years without eligibility for any thing other than a Good Conduct Medal.  So to spice it up new awards were established:  The achievement medal, over seas long and short tour, etc.  Then the Air Force established a three year medal consideration cycle (every three years or when changing duty station).  In otherwords, you get a medal every three years whether or not you actually merited one.  Then the medals began to flow - and I mean flow.  It was a mistake.  Too many medals going out for reduced performance standards.

Now the Air Force is considering going back to the old standards, and getting rid of (God how I hate this word, but it is appropriate) Bling.  With an all volunteer force, for example, why give out good conduct medals?  The GCM is gone!  Look for others, like long and short overseas tours to also bite the dust.

CAP must do the same.  Gratuitous awards, such as a membership ribbon, are junk and demean the value of higher awards and accomplishments.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I agree Chief.  There is no purpose in celebrating and honoring mediocrity.

If you're monitoing this channel, Chief, there's a discussion under "Clarification of Officer Standards..." that I'd like your input on.

Thanks.

[ZigZag911]

CAP must do the same.  Gratuitous awards, such as a membership ribbon, are junk and demean the value of higher awards and accomplishments.

Why must CAP do the same?

With all due consideration for your long service and experience, Chief, at some point USAF must recognize that in some respects CAP is different, and always will be, from any of the other three components that constitute our one big happy AF family!

We all share the desire to serve our nation and our community.

Let's consider some of the distinctions, though....active military, reservists, and guard personnel (deservedly!) receive pay, benefits, pensions....I'll be the first to say that none of thses are sufficient to recompense the risk and sacrifice attendant on military setvice.

However -- considering that CAP members pay for most of our uniforms (virtually all, except for some cadet issued materiel), pay for our training, pay for our trnsportation, housing and feeding at CAP events, contribute family time, vacation time (and by the way, I understand that military personnel who are CAP members do the exact same things as the rest of us) -- if a ribbon is going to make someone feel appreciated, if it's going to motivate that person, or cuase her/him to re-dedicate themselves to CAP, then let's give it to them.

I'm not saying we should show up for every squadron meeting looking like Manhattan doormen! Generally I just wear miniature wings and a badge myself

But a couple of times a year, for a wing banquet, change of command, major awards ceremony -- those are the times the folks ought to pull out all the stops and get decorated like Christmas trees -- to remind one another of what we accompkish together, and to encourage the junior folks (cadet and senior) to jang in there and keep trying.

the clean, simple, professional look of the US Postal Service embraced by the USAF is, in fact, probably the best working rig for CAP as well.

On the other hand, maybe the Air Force ought to consider unveiling all their 'bling'
(I'm not crazy about the term ether, but I think it's used in self-deprecation, NOT to demean the awards or those who earned them) on rare but appropriate occasions....for the morale of their own members, and to remind the general public  of their patriotic contributions.

[AlphaSigOU]

In the space of a little over a year with CAP (after a 17-year sabbatical), I've already earned 9 CAP ribbons (working on a 10th), along with the two 'I-was-there-and-didn't-get-the-clap' ribbons I earned in the USAF. All ya gotta do is sneeze and you get a ribbon! 

I'll probably keep wearing my rack on the shirt until I get more than 12 of 'em, then it's the plain look for me.

[SAR-EMT1]

I have two questions actually:
1: as a member in his early twenties I havent been able to afford a service coat, let alone mess dress. So my blouse is all I have to display my rack. As it is my unit only wears it once a month and I feel semi obligated to wear it as DCC. Is it right?
2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux?
example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

[AlphaSigOU]

I have two questions actually:
1: as a member in his early twenties I havent been able to afford a service coat, let alone mess dress. So my blouse is all I have to display my rack. As it is my unit only wears it once a month and I feel semi obligated to wear it as DCC. Is it right?
2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux?
example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

Perfectly fine to wear your ribbon rack with the long or short-sleeve light blue shirt. I do it all the time. It is an unwritten tradition in USAF (and by extension, CAP) that officers generally do not wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, but if they wear the UMB (Universal Management Badge - aka pilot wings) they're required to do so.  So you won't get sent up the river for doing so. 

Nix on Coastie Auxie ribbons on the CAP uniform. (CG Aux won't allow ours to be worn on their uniform, either.) As for AD CG ribbons awarded to Auxies, this is where there's a gray area. They are legitimate military awards, awarded by competent military authority. But I'd probably ask first.

[MIKE]

1: as a member in his early twenties I havent been able to afford a service coat, let alone mess dress. So my blouse is all I have to display my rack. As it is my unit only wears it once a month and I feel semi obligated to wear it as DCC. Is it right?

I would say no, but that's just my opinion based on USAF custom.  

2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux?
example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

From looking at CAPR 39-3 the answer would seem to be no,  even though the awards would most likely be authorized on the uniform had you been AD or Reserve instead of an Auxie.

Note that CAP ribbons are not authorized on the Auxiliary uniform, per the AUXMAN.

[Hawk200]

2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux?
example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

Not really a yea or nay, but I would doubt that. CAP members don't currently receive many decs directly from the Air Force. Many might people might argue that since that doesn't happen that your Coast Guard ribbons themselves shouldn't be worn.

That being said, on the basis of my opinion, I think they ought to be allowed. The Coast Guard ribbons, not the Auxie ones. My reasoning is that they are legitimate recognized Federal awards. Plus, you got called up by the Coast Guard itself on one of their Federal missions, not just an Auxiliary mission. Personally, I don't think it should matter that you were Auxiliary, and not active Coast Guard or Coast Guard Reserve.

[MIKE]

I didn't think he was talking about Auxie specific awards, but the USCG Team Awards which are also awarded to Auxies... Which are recognized federal awards.

Missed out on the CGPUC for Katrina by this much.  [darn] PSI!

[SAR-EMT1]

Correction we dont recieve ANY decs from the AF. Our lack of use/ recognition  by the USAF was one of the major draws the CG-Aux had for me. I wear CG ribbons, can serve as an EMT on a cutter etc...

[SAR-EMT1]

Thanks Mike, that is what I was refering to....so...any answers from fellow CG auxies?

[MIKE]

Thanks Mike, that is what I was refering to....so...any answers from fellow CG auxies?

Yeah... My reply... I R an Auxie.

[SAR-EMT1]

color me foolish but did you actually answer the question? - Can we wear the 'team' awards?

[captrncap]

Cadets know that many Sr Member's ( or Officer's ) ribbons did not require the same degree of work to attain as Cadet  achievements.

I would disagree with this. The only ribbon that a senior gets handed to them is the membership ribbon (that's just bling) but the other PD levels must be earned. To compare Cadet requirement to Senior requirements for ribbons is like comparing apples to oranges.

Also, why should a senior be looked at different if they get an encampment ribbon. I had to get up at 0500 and didn't end my duty day until 2400 for 10 day and 2 training weekends. I worked with the flight commander and sergeant all day, every day and was responsible for the safety and well being of the cadets in sleeping quarters. Why should that ribbon be discounted?

I'll be the first to say that none of thses are sufficient to recompense the risk and sacrifice attendant on military setvice.

However -- considering that CAP members pay for most of our uniforms (virtually all, except for some cadet issued materiel), pay for our training, pay for our transportation, housing and feeding at CAP events, contribute family time, vacation time (and by the way, I understand that military personnel who are CAP members do the exact same things as the rest of us) -- if a ribbon is going to make someone feel appreciated, if it's going to motivate that person, or cause her/him to re-dedicate themselves to CAP, then let's give it to them.

Agreed. CAP needs some way to recognize its members for their devotion and accomplishments. We can never equate a Purple Heart with a CAP ribbon but that's not the point. Both recognize the person for the action.

[MIKE]

color me foolish but did you actually answer the question? - Can we wear the 'team' awards?

Reply #47.  If I read CAPR 39-3 right, the answer is no.

[Dragoon]

Cadets know that many Sr Member's ( or Officer's ) ribbons did not require the same degree of work to attain as Cadet  achievements.

I would disagree with this. The only ribbon that a senior gets handed to them is the membership ribbon (that's just bling) but the other PD levels must be earned. To compare Cadet requirement to Senior requirements for ribbons is like comparing apples to oranges.

Also, why should a senior be looked at different if they get an encampment ribbon. I had to get up at 0500 and didn't end my duty day until 2400 for 10 day and 2 training weekends. I worked with the flight commander and sergeant all day, every day and was responsible for the safety and well being of the cadets in sleeping quarters. Why should that ribbon be discounted?

I don't think anyone would argue about the encampment ribbon - that's hard work for everyone invoved.  However, most senior PD ribbons are easier for us than the cadet ones are for them.

Their "Membership" Ribbon (the curry) has 2 tests you must pass.  Ours has none.
Their "Leadership" Ribbon (Wright Brothers) has 3 tests.  Ours has one, or maybe two for some specialty tracks.
Their Loening (the Mitchell) has a heck of a test.  Ours has none.
Ditto their "Garber"(Earhart) and "Gill Rob Wilson" (Spaatz)

Plus you've got more than 10 individual achievement test between each of these milestones!

Cadets often FAIL these tests and don't get promoted.  For us, it's more a matter of sitting through the classes. 

I did 'em all on both sides, and the cadet ones were much harder.

[Hawk200]

I don't think anyone would argue about the encampment ribbon - that's hard work for everyone invoved.  However, most senior PD ribbons are easier for us than the cadet ones are for them.

Their "Membership" Ribbon (the curry) has 2 tests you must pass.  Ours has none.
Their "Leadership" Ribbon (Wright Brothers) has 3 tests.  Ours has one, or maybe two for some specialty tracks.
Their Loening (the Mitchell) has a heck of a test.  Ours has none.
Ditto their "Garber"(Earhart) and "Gill Rob Wilson" (Spaatz)

Plus you've got more than 10 individual achievement test between each of these milestones!

Cadets often FAIL these tests and don't get promoted.  For us, it's more a matter of sitting through the classes. 

I did 'em all on both sides, and the cadet ones were much harder.

So how many people think we ought to reduce the number of PD awards? I've got a few ideas...

[DNall]

I have two questions actually:
1: as a member in his early twenties I havent been able to afford a service coat, let alone mess dress. So my blouse is all I have to display my rack. As it is my unit only wears it once a month and I feel semi obligated to wear it as DCC. Is it right?

You really want me to respond to that? 

2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux? example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

Yes the CG ribbons are good to go on top of CAP, CGAux ribbons are not. Then again someone will post the thing about "awarded by cometent military authority for service in the armed services..." I don't know on that, call Susie Parker at HQ & ask. I'm sure the answer is we're reading too much into it & you're welcome to put them on.

[MIKE]

2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux? example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

Yes the CG ribbons are good to go on top of CAP, CGAux ribbons are not. Then again someone will post the thing about "awarded by cometent military authority for service in the armed services..." I don't know on that, call Susie Parker at HQ & ask. I'm sure the answer is we're reading too much into it & you're welcome to put them on.

I said no because of the wording in 39-3, but if you call Susie Parker she'll give you the answer of the day according to the magic 8-ball.