Ribbon Rack?

[James Shaw]

I am curious about the opinion of the members of this forum about ribbons and badges? I recently attended a state level function and saw a cadet from a distance who looked like General Patton as he walked by. It was further brought to my attention by a cadet I was talking to who wanted to know how he could "get some of those" The Ribbon Rack was pretty impressive for a C/Capt. During the same event I saw a retired AF Major who was in CAP and his collection of AD and CAP ribbons on the uniform...the ribbon rack again was pretty impressive. So here comes the questions!

What is the respectable amount of Awards worn on the uniform?

Do you wear all of them to make it more impressive or a few to keep it clean?

Do you mix AD and CAP or wear one or the other?

What is the max that can or should be worn?

I have looked at other pictures of CAP personnel and see a great mix of wear. Personaly I feel that if you work for them and earn them than you should be proud and wear as much or as little depending on your preference. Of course regulations must be respected and taken into consideration. I have measured my Service Coat with my Observer Wings and Communications Badge from AD and found that you can wear up to 32 ribbons at one time and still be within regs as far as spacing is concerned. You would have to order the rack from a company called LormaLinda but it could be done. I know I am proud of the AD and CAP ribbon rack I have but I dont wear a uniform but maybe 3 times a year. I talked to my boss (National Historian) and he feels that if you earn it than wear it.

So the final question is:

Is it more or less to impress?

[Hawk200]

What is the respectable amount of Awards worn on the uniform?

Do you wear all of them to make it more impressive or a few to keep it clean?

Do you mix AD and CAP or wear one or the other?

What is the max that can or should be worn?

I have looked at other pictures of CAP personnel and see a great mix of wear. Personaly I feel that if you work for them and earn them than you should be proud and wear as much or as little depending on your preference. Of course regulations must be respected and taken into consideration. I have measured my Service Coat with my Observer Wings and Communications Badge from AD and found that you can wear up to 32 ribbons at one time and still be within regs as far as spacing is concerned. You would have to order the rack from a company called LormaLinda but it could be done. I know I am proud of the AD and CAP ribbon rack I have but I dont wear a uniform but maybe 3 times a year. I talked to my boss (National Historian) and he feels that if you earn it than wear it.

So the final question is:

Is it more or less to impress?

In some cases to impress, others it's about earning it. Although some non-prior service members have issues with military personnel wearing a large rack.

On blue shirts, I'll wear just military ribbons, since I just came back in, and haven't built a CAP rack yet. On Service Dress, I intend to put everything on, as there I can wear a rack four wide. The limitation of only three wide, and no higher than the collar tip is why I would only wear my military ones on shirts.

There are miniature ribbons (not the enamel lapel pins, actual ribbons) available for the Air Force. I've seen them, but don't know where to get them. I think CAP should consider this, it would allow wear of a large amount of ribbons in a smaller space.

[Hawk200]

Out of curiousity, you mentioned a "LormLinda" company. Do they produce ribbons, racks, or mounted decorations? Tried a web search, but nothing I got back seemed to fit.

[lordmonar]

What is the respectable amount of Awards worn on the uniform?

All that you earn.

Do you wear all of them to make it more impressive or a few to keep it clean?

On my service coat I wear all both USAF and CAP.  On my blues shirt I wear only my CAP ribbons

Do you mix AD and CAP or wear one or the other?

See above.

What is the max that can or should be worn?

Until there is no more room...remember you can go 4 across.

I have looked at other pictures of CAP personnel and see a great mix of wear. Personaly I feel that if you work for them and earn them than you should be proud and wear as much or as little depending on your preference. Of course regulations must be respected and taken into consideration. I have measured my Service Coat with my Observer Wings and Communications Badge from AD and found that you can wear up to 32 ribbons at one time and still be within regs as far as spacing is concerned. You would have to order the rack from a company called LormaLinda but it could be done. I know I am proud of the AD and CAP ribbon rack I have but I dont wear a uniform but maybe 3 times a year. I talked to my boss (National Historian) and he feels that if you earn it than wear it.

Good Advice...and I agree.

Is it more or less to impress?

Yes.

[Monty]

I've personally been a bit biased towards the AF officer practice of keeping ribbons off of service uniform shirts and instead, keeping only wings and/or badges on shirts.  Of course, there's no debate about their inclusion upon service dress uniforms.

Then again, I'm also of the school where ribbons are awards to ME and not to others therefore; I don't need to show them to others to make ME love ME any more (or have others like or hate me more because of my fruit salad.)

Before I went into AFROTC, I didn't wear them unless ordered to (which when I was an AF Recruiter and an NCO, we were ordered to wear them.  Then again, officers serving in recruiting squadrons were ordered to wear them also....)

[Hawk200]

Then again, I'm also of the school where ribbons are awards to ME and not to others therefore; I don't need to show them to others to make ME love ME any more (or have others like or hate me more because of my fruit salad.)

Agreed. Which is why I make a point to avoid that as a consideration. My wear is pretty much limited by the real estate available. I'm an average size guy, so I can wear only so many before the shirt collar/service coat notch limitation comes in.

Although, just to keep people observant, I may swap back and forth between a CAP and military rack on shirts.

[MIKE]

I've personally been a bit biased towards the AF officer practice of keeping ribbons off of service uniform shirts and instead, keeping only wings and/or badges on shirts.  Of course, there's no debate about their inclusion upon service dress uniforms.

Ditto... I only wear my Ground Team badge on the shirts.  On service dress I wear all my junk.  I used to wear everything on the shirts WIWAC, including a service cap... but I grew up.    The shirts look much better with just badges IMO.

I don't wear any ribbons on my Trops either, since I don't rate any yet.  I like the top 3 rule though.  IIRC they aren't optional in the CGAux like they are in CAP.

[Al Sayre]

I've switched to just my wings and commanders pin on the blue shirt for meetings etc., it's just easier not to mess with the rest of it.
 
I wear both my Navy and CAP ribbons, and all my other bling on my Dress Uniform.

On occasion I will wear all the (allowable) bling on the SS shirt with the specific intention of impressing a given audience, such as speaking at the local school.  It generates interest and gets some of the potential cadets to come talk to you.  YMMV

[Hawk200]

I like the top 3 rule though.  IIRC they aren't optional in the CGAux like they are in CAP.

Out of curiousity, I looked up the CG Aux manual on that. There's is top three, all, or any nine. I think it's a practical policy.

Right now, I couldn't wear all my ribbons with any badge on shirts.

[Pylon]

In keeping with the many others here that have already piped in, I do not wear my ribbon rack on my blues shirt.  Just wings.  I had in the past, but don't really care for the look anymore.

Since I don't own service dress, about the only time I'll be wearing decorations will be in mess dress.  Otherwise, the ribbons make for a nice something to stick in a shadowbox or whatever.  My achievements (if I have any) will be reflected in the quality of my work.

[DNall]

I've personally been a bit biased towards the AF officer practice of keeping ribbons off of service uniform shirts and instead, keeping only wings and/or badges on shirts.  Of course, there's no debate about their inclusion upon service dress uniforms.

I really like the AF Officer practice. It's a hassle to wear them on blues shirt for day to day. Stick to badges & only two up on that. I make cadet officers follow it too (with the below logic on exceptions).

If i were a fresh 2Lt trying to establish himself in command of a unit with NCOs that have 20 years service, then no I absolutely don't want to put my two ribbons on anything & show that's all I got. They know I'd have little experience, but no need to fly that flag. (thankfully the Army gives you a short stack to start now days anyway, plus how often you see a WO in service dress). In the other hand, if I were prior-enlisted just became an officer & have a four high stack I'd sure as hell wear that, at least initially.

When you get more experienced, it's just convenient & looks sharp to keep it minimized unless it's a special occation. Actually, the times I'd wear a blues shirt w/ ribbons in CAP, if that were the AF I'd wear service coat (which is much more convenient), but since no one hardly has one. That's teh bg thing

On service coat I lay it all on for now. I don't know what 32 ribbons would look like, kind of crazy I'd think, but when the combined rack starts looking unweildy then I'll taks some CAP stuff off... like just highest PD, don't need a recruiter ribbon, only reason I'd keep the SaR & Find ribbons on is cause the SaR ribbon is they're boths stacked in clasps. Just keep it reasonablly good looking.

The general overall rule though is it's reflective of your experience & level of general accomplishment. One expects that to be reflective of your grade & position. If it isn't, be it in one direction or the other, then people want to know why (even civilians that don't have any idea what they're looking at), and that can be good or bad - cause again if it reflects your prior-service or an extensive experience level or something then that's good, if you wear one line & you're Sq CC then people are going to think you're incompetent, or at leat that's going to be the assumption before they talk to you.

Generally I think it looks stupid to ever wear less than three. Doesn't look good unless you have at least two full lines, and by the point you do you should be over it & just using it to make an impression or decorate the wallpaper (you) for special occations.

[freeflight]

On the service coat I wear all my decorations, the highest professional development, highest aerospace, highest service and all activities ribbons.  I have several badges and wings that I could wear but I only wear my highest set of wings. I keep the service coat as clean as I can.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I wear all of them on my service coat, and usually just my mini wings on the shirt.  I plan on buying a mini GTL badge, just as soon as I have enough other stuff to order from Vanguard to make the shipping cost worthwhile.

On occasion I will wear the ribbons on the shirt, if the event is something calling for a bit more formality than normal office attire, but not enough for the service coat.  The last time I did that was the day we posed for our class picture at IG school.

I rate 20 ribbons, plus pilot and GTL badges.  At the Officers' Club a barmaid remarked about them, and asked if I had every medal possible.  I gave her the Famous Kachenmeister Grin, and said:  "Every one except Good Conduct, sweetie!" 

And went home alone again!    

[Hawk200]

I rate 20 ribbons, plus pilot and GTL badges. 

I would have thought you had a rack you could sleep on. (at your age and all..... )

At the Officers' Club a barmaid remarked about them, and asked if I had every medal possible.  I gave her the Famous Kachenmeister Grin, and said:  "Every one except Good Conduct, sweetie!" 

And went home alone again!    

And are you really wondering why? 

You know I'm just kidding....Right?

[Camas]

Although some non-prior service members have issues with military personnel wearing a large rack.

I can see their point though it might be nothing more than intimidation.  For my part I wear my military ribbons with pride

My wear is pretty much limited by the real estate available. I'm an average size guy, so I can wear only so many before the shirt collar/service coat notch limitation comes in.

I wear a size 50L service coat (I'm 6'4") so I don't have a problem

On my service coat I wear all both USAF and CAP.  On my blues shirt I wear only my CAP ribbons

I'm with you though I try to avoid wearing ribbons on shirts at all.  But there've been times when I've had to such as cadet encampment formations and the like.

I rate 20 ribbons - -

I have 15 and I don't see anymore in the immediate future other than the Garber and the Wilson if and when I even finish up Level IV and V.

[DNall]

At the Officers' Club a barmaid remarked about them, and asked if I had every medal possible.  I gave her the Famous Kachenmeister Grin, and said:  "Every one except Good Conduct, sweetie!" 

And went home alone again!    

And are you really wondering why? 

I thought that was pretty snappy actually. I'm stealin the hell outta that one.

I got one of the mini-GT badges couple days ago. I don't know if I like it or not yet. I haven't put it on the shirt yet. It'd look good on mess dress, or you could even pull it off on a lapel, but jury's still out. I'll scan it w/ some scale objects so you can see. The more detail bit is it's flat rather than rounded like the full-size badge & raised a bit more than you'd expect. Does make it look sharper. 3.50 for master badge from Vangold I mean Vanguard. I'm still of the opinion the full size badge looks small (narrow) next to full-size AF badges

[afgeo4]

My mileage is different... I'm a recruiter.  Just like AF recruiters, I am compelled to wear all my CAP ribbons (5). I used to wear my USAFR ribbons (also 5) with CAP ribbons when I was in cadet programs, but since I've become a recruiter I changed to just CAP ribbons. Although I wear them on all the blues combinations.

[DNall]

Right, that's the excepton to policy. You should dress it up a bit for recruiting duty. Same for certan PAO duties, just like when you present at outside orgs.

[Monty]

Right, that's the excepton to policy. You should dress it up a bit for recruiting duty. Same for certan PAO duties, just like when you present at outside orgs.

Yuppers...precisely why I didn't whine about it when in AFRS, they told us they were mandatory.  (Sidenote: while ribbons were mandatory for AF recruiters, the unofficial expectation of getting them at Ultrathin got to be expensive...especially when the entire AFRS had to immediately start wearing that new AF recruiter ribbon all at the same time on account of the USAF's "all or none" requirement.)

If I showed a picture of 'ole Monty in his service dress, you'd see that the only time those puppies get worn is on that service dress...and dang, it's an expensive deal getting 'em made.  (Yup, I still make orders through Ultrathin even for CAP.)

Sigh.....I'll probably regret this, but.....here y'all go.  Hope you had your coffee already because it's probably WAY too early in the AM to see this crap: 

[Al Sayre]

ARRGGHH!  My eyes!   I've been blinded by the bling!   

[Monty]

ARRGGHH!  My eyes!   I've been blinded by the bling!   

I know....see what I mean?  Now who needs to show all that crap off except for the once-in-a-blue-moon event?   

Besides....it's actually more fun to leave off stuff on uniforms (or dare I say, go by polo) and watch all the folks who have NO idea about your own record to start spouting off because with my babyface and no bling, I MUST be an idiot.

One time, I sat there and listened to some newly-returned from BMT airman tell me all about the AF, based upon his *extensive* 7 week career.  I listened intently and let him "correct" me on some of the things I claimed that I'd heard "one way or another"...and never once hinted about all the things I'd done.  (After all, it was his "show" and I've no ego to bruise.)  Drives my wife crazy when she sees me do that.  "Why don't you tell people about what you've done?"

I always reply the same way..."perhaps that airman wouldn't have felt as excited about his new-found career if he knew he was talking to a former "enlisted-to-commissioning" guy.  Let him enjoy himself.  Him's wants tuh be a big boy." 

I see that on these forums all the time, what with the folks that are seemingly stuck on themselves.  I usually let 'em run...it's so precious to see 'em be the big shot.  Probably makes 'em feel better too.

Oh yeah, long story short - stick yo bling on yo service dress and forget the rest.  Let people show you their true colors...which is arguably worth more than any bling can tell you about 'em! 

[Hawk200]

One time, I sat there and listened to some newly-returned from BMT airman tell me all about the AF, based upon his *extensive* 7 week career.  I listened intently and let him "correct" me on some of the things I claimed that I'd heard "one way or another"...and never once hinted about all the things I'd done.  (After all, it was his "show" and I've no ego to bruise.)  Drives my wife crazy when she sees me do that.  "Why don't you tell people about what you've done?"

It's even more fun with cadets that do the same thing....

[Monty]

One time, I sat there and listened to some newly-returned from BMT airman tell me all about the AF, based upon his *extensive* 7 week career.  I listened intently and let him "correct" me on some of the things I claimed that I'd heard "one way or another"...and never once hinted about all the things I'd done.  (After all, it was his "show" and I've no ego to bruise.)  Drives my wife crazy when she sees me do that.  "Why don't you tell people about what you've done?"

It's even more fun with cadets that do the same thing....

Yeah, I know what you mean.....but I MUCH prefer to see seniors (who I assume - we know what THAT means) that do it.

Speaks volumes.

[Hawk200]

Yeah, I know what you mean.....but I MUCH prefer to see seniors (who I assume - we know what THAT means) that do it.

Speaks volumes.

Good point.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I like to listen to people tell me about Vietnam, but then when I ask them about who, in their unit, took care of sale of postage stamps?  Was it an officer or the company mail clerk?  They always seem to have an answer.

(Note to combat virgins:  Mail is free from war zones.  You write the word "Free" in the corner where the stamp would go.  There are no stamps.)

[Chief Chiafos]

The military custom of ribbon wear is not to impress, although it does have that effect.  It is your biography: where you have served, what your qualified to do, what campaigns you fought in, single acts of bravery, rendering an outstanding service or duty, wounds received, etc.  I can learn more about a soldier's service by looking at the ribbon rack, than I can in two hours of conversation.

In the Air Force there are two modes of thought on wearing ribbons on the blue shirt.  Many will wear the shirt in "office dress" that is qualification badges only.  Other commanders may direct the wear of ribbons for jobs of high visibility or contact with the public.  Ribbons ought to be worn on the blue shirt, when it is the uniform of the day, and a ceremonial or formal military function will be attended.

Every time I hear the word "bling" I cringe, what a dishonorable word to describe the visible evidence of Duty, Honor, Country, and sacrifice.  I knew a Senior Master Sergeant that had 28 ribbons:  In Vietnam he flew 137 combat missions, rescued 23 pilots from behind enemy lines, was wounded 5 times, and had three helicopters shot out from under him - "bling"?

[aveighter]

Well said Chief.

Hand Salute!

[Major_Chuck]

The timeless words of Monty Python can be used in response to the 'bling'.

Run a way!  Runaway!

[Major_Chuck]

The military custom of ribbon wear is not to impress, although it does have that effect.  It is your biography: where you have served, what your qualified to do, what campaigns you fought in, single acts of bravery, rendering an outstanding service or duty, wounds received, etc.  I can learn more about a soldier's service by looking at the ribbon rack, than I can in two hours of conversation.

In the Air Force there are two modes of thought on wearing ribbons on the blue shirt.  Many will wear the shirt in "office dress" that is qualification badges only.  Other commanders may direct the wear of ribbons for jobs of high visibility or contact with the public.  Ribbons ought to be worn on the blue shirt, when it is the uniform of the day, and a ceremonial or formal military function will be attended.

Every time I hear the word "bling" I cringe, what a dishonorable word to describe the visible evidence of Duty, Honor, Country, and sacrifice.  I knew a Senior Master Sergeant that had 28 ribbons:  In Vietnam he flew 137 combat missions, rescued 23 pilots from behind enemy lines, was wounded 5 times, and had three helicopters shot out from under him - "bling"?

True for military ribbons, but in our case the vast majority of our ribbons only denote a level of training or participation while a handful actually have value or meaning.  Thus, we have bling.

[DNall]

True for military ribbons, but in our case the vast majority of our ribbons only denote a level of training or participation while a handful actually have value or meaning.  Thus, we have bling.

Like a membership ribbon for instance? They even call it "membership," denoting the required heart beat. Some of them are a little more meaningful though.

I get the baby face thing too. It's nice to be underestimated & then shine in comparrison to expectations. You have to toss on the service coat once in a while to combat people getting into a rut on that underestimation bit, but I really do prefer to keep them on the coat.

I try to wear them when I'm taking charge of new people to help establish credibility, but I feel like I'm holding my experience over others if I wear them all the time. Of course if there's something ceremonial later you need to wear ribbons in some capacity, on the shirt or toss on the coat for the festivities. If there's a UOD situation that precludes that then your stuck.

I like the cultural rules the AF uses on the issue. I pretty well stick to the spirit of that as much as I can.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I used to call the uniform the "Visual Resume" of soldiers.  They tell you where he ranks in the organization, what his skill specialty is, what significant things he has done in the past, and (In the case of the Army) where he works now.

Also, in some cases it might be important to know if you are talking to the Chaplain or the Provost Marshall.

[BlackKnight]

...

[DNall]

But when cadets or parents ask about his ribbons, he quips: "Oh those? I have no idea what they are. I just send my wife down to the BX and tell her to bring back a colorful assortment!"  Message conveyed, especially to cadets.

That's a funny joke when you're a General officer in the AF trying to be humble about your resume. It's not as funny when you're wearing LtCol in a CAP that already has a rep to worry about.

For Cadets, the notes accompanying CAPM 39-1 Figure 2-2 say that ribbons are required.  Yes it looks ostentatious, but understand they're following CAP regs.

It's says ribbons are required, but not ALL ribbons. They can still pick & choose. A cadet 7 years in w/ a Spaatz probably should have more rack than most people. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

My son opted out of the CAP cadet program in favor of the JROTC program offered at his school.

He got a ribbon for selling fundraising pizza.

The "Curtis LeMay" look for our cadets is OK, and not as bad as the JROTC approach to everything being recognized with a ribbon.

I'm a little uncomfortable, however, with a CAP officer sporting 5 or 6 rows of ribbons, and when you look closer, none of them are for active duty.  I don't know what to do about it, though.  I thought about a re-vamping of our officer awards, but when I went through the awards, trying to combine and eliminate awards, I could only eliminate something like six or eight ribbons total.

I considered options such as combining the CD ribbon, SAR ribbon, O-flight ribbon for aircrews into the "CAP Air Service Award" which would be awarded based on total number of missions/sorties, regardless of type.  I also thought about creating the "Professional Development Ribbon" which would replace the membership, red service, and the successive milestone awards with clasps on the basic ribbon.

I never wrote it up as a recommendation.  I figured it would be Dead On Arrival.

[CAP Producer]

John,

The idea of a Professional Development Ribbon and a CAP Air Service Award are outstanding.

I think you should write them up.

I also had the idea of a "CAP Achievement Award".

This would rank below a CC's Commendation and could be presneted by a Group or Higher level CC for selelcted achivements that may not merit a CC's Commendation such as successful completion of a major project or Unit level member of the year.

The CAA would be awarded to members below the grade of Major. It would be equivelent to an Air Force Achivement Medal.

This brings CAP in line with the AF on it's non combat decorations.

CAP                                                              USAF

Distinguished Service Medal                        Distinguished Service Medal
Exceptional Serivice Award                          Legion of Merit
Meritorious Service Award                           Meritorious Service Medal
Commander's Commendation Award           AF Commendation Medal
CAP Achivement Award  (proposed)            AF Achievement Medal

Any thoughts?

[Major Lord]

I was standing by an Army Green Beret Colonel when an AF JROTC student approached us. He had two funny looking ribbons on his pizza stained, ill fitting blouse. The Col. asked what they were and was told that one had been awarded for attending a parade and the other one was for bowling...It is a good thing we were not drinking milk, since spitting it through your nose is considered poor form almsot everywhere...

By the way, I thought that only medal devices are technically called "Bling", but that anything pinned to your uniform, including "Bling" counts as "Flair" ( and as you know, you must have at least 17 pieces of "flair" on your uniform at all times.) I think that is a CAWG secret policy, you know, like discretionary grade....

[JohnKachenmeister]

I heard a drill sergeant in the Army tell some recruits once:  "A uniform without ribbons is like a girl without boobs.  Nobody takes a second look."

I'm glad I was behind the formation, and the privates couldn't see me crack up laughing.

[MIKE]

I think cadet officers should wear only their highest milestone award and remove all the other milestone awards and achievement ribbons.  I could go either way with cadet NCOs.  Cadet airmen usually don't have this issue. 

[davedove]

I would have to say that it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.  If the wear is optional, it means just that, wear them if you want to.  In squadron meetings it should be at the discretion of the individual.  If the Squadron Commander needs uniformity for whatever occasion, the level of ribbon wear can be mandated:  all, none, or any reasonable level in between.  For situations involving the non-CAP public, it is probably a good thing to wear the ribbons.

The ribbons are not just something pretty to put on the uniform.  Each ribbon stands for an accomplishment, no matter how minor some people might think it.

I happen to like seeing the ribbons and, in most cases, don't really see it as bragging.  However, I will admit that at times they can be a bother.

[Trung Si Ma]

I'm a little uncomfortable, however, with a CAP officer sporting 5 or 6 rows of ribbons, and when you look closer, none of them are for active duty.  I don't know what to do about it, though.  I thought about a re-vamping of our officer awards, but when I went through the awards, trying to combine and eliminate awards, I could only eliminate something like six or eight ribbons total.

I considered options such as combining the CD ribbon, SAR ribbon, O-flight ribbon for aircrews into the "CAP Air Service Award" which would be awarded based on total number of missions/sorties, regardless of type.  I also thought about creating the "Professional Development Ribbon" which would replace the membership, red service, and the successive milestone awards with clasps on the basic ribbon.

I never wrote it up as a recommendation.  I figured it would be Dead On Arrival.

Personally, I like the idea of only wearing one PD ribbon.  Just replace the lower one with the higher as earned.

I don't often wear ribbons, but when I do I wear a single bar of four

Lifesaving w/gold star
Gill Rob Wilson w/silver star
Scott Crossfield Aerospace
Earhart w/silver clasp and silver star (didn't have the Eaker back then, but I did get a Phase IV letter)

Mixing military (20+ years) and CAP (35+ years) awards gives a total of 40 ribbons - far to many to be worn in one place (my personal opinion).

John - how about sharing some Bam-i-ba?

Trung Si Ma

[Major Lord]

I think Cadets should wear every ribbon they have been awarded. They set an example to the lower level cadets, and the ribbons are a highly visible sign of achievement. Senior Members on the other hand, in my opinion, should only wear ribbons on service dress, since by tradition AF Officers don't wear Ribbons on blouses, but enlisted persons do. Cadets know that many Sr Member's ( or Officer's ) ribbons did not require the same degree of work to attain as Cadet  acheivements. For many cadets, wearing every ribbon they have earned is impossible, since they would have to go to a boy scout or Klingon style sash or carry a spare tunic to make them all fit. ( By the time my son earned his Spaatz award, there were Mexican admirals turning green with envy at all his cool awards)

I am a member of a secret group (tell no one of this!) that tries to get Cadets their NRA Qual medals, since this sends a distinctly kick-ass, take names message. Note that anyone can get basic Qual medals by qualifying in their backyard with a BB gun.

[Chief Chiafos]

During my active duty days 1965-1969 the Air Force was very stingy with ribbons and medals.  In four years of active duty I saw only one enlisted medal award - a commendation medal for the guy who wrote up medal submissions for pilots!

When the Air Force went all volunteer, and the Vietnam war ended, the opportunity for any kind of award (by old AF standards) dried up completely.  Airmen went years without eligibility for any thing other than a Good Conduct Medal.  So to spice it up new awards were established:  The achievement medal, over seas long and short tour, etc.  Then the Air Force established a three year medal consideration cycle (every three years or when changing duty station).  In otherwords, you get a medal every three years whether or not you actually merited one.  Then the medals began to flow - and I mean flow.  It was a mistake.  Too many medals going out for reduced performance standards.

Now the Air Force is considering going back to the old standards, and getting rid of (God how I hate this word, but it is appropriate) Bling.  With an all volunteer force, for example, why give out good conduct medals?  The GCM is gone!  Look for others, like long and short overseas tours to also bite the dust.

CAP must do the same.  Gratuitous awards, such as a membership ribbon, are junk and demean the value of higher awards and accomplishments.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I agree Chief.  There is no purpose in celebrating and honoring mediocrity.

If you're monitoing this channel, Chief, there's a discussion under "Clarification of Officer Standards..." that I'd like your input on.

Thanks.

[ZigZag911]

CAP must do the same.  Gratuitous awards, such as a membership ribbon, are junk and demean the value of higher awards and accomplishments.

Why must CAP do the same?

With all due consideration for your long service and experience, Chief, at some point USAF must recognize that in some respects CAP is different, and always will be, from any of the other three components that constitute our one big happy AF family!

We all share the desire to serve our nation and our community.

Let's consider some of the distinctions, though....active military, reservists, and guard personnel (deservedly!) receive pay, benefits, pensions....I'll be the first to say that none of thses are sufficient to recompense the risk and sacrifice attendant on military setvice.

However -- considering that CAP members pay for most of our uniforms (virtually all, except for some cadet issued materiel), pay for our training, pay for our trnsportation, housing and feeding at CAP events, contribute family time, vacation time (and by the way, I understand that military personnel who are CAP members do the exact same things as the rest of us) -- if a ribbon is going to make someone feel appreciated, if it's going to motivate that person, or cuase her/him to re-dedicate themselves to CAP, then let's give it to them.

I'm not saying we should show up for every squadron meeting looking like Manhattan doormen! Generally I just wear miniature wings and a badge myself

But a couple of times a year, for a wing banquet, change of command, major awards ceremony -- those are the times the folks ought to pull out all the stops and get decorated like Christmas trees -- to remind one another of what we accompkish together, and to encourage the junior folks (cadet and senior) to jang in there and keep trying.

the clean, simple, professional look of the US Postal Service embraced by the USAF is, in fact, probably the best working rig for CAP as well.

On the other hand, maybe the Air Force ought to consider unveiling all their 'bling'
(I'm not crazy about the term ether, but I think it's used in self-deprecation, NOT to demean the awards or those who earned them) on rare but appropriate occasions....for the morale of their own members, and to remind the general public  of their patriotic contributions.

[AlphaSigOU]

In the space of a little over a year with CAP (after a 17-year sabbatical), I've already earned 9 CAP ribbons (working on a 10th), along with the two 'I-was-there-and-didn't-get-the-clap' ribbons I earned in the USAF. All ya gotta do is sneeze and you get a ribbon! 

I'll probably keep wearing my rack on the shirt until I get more than 12 of 'em, then it's the plain look for me.

[SAR-EMT1]

I have two questions actually:
1: as a member in his early twenties I havent been able to afford a service coat, let alone mess dress. So my blouse is all I have to display my rack. As it is my unit only wears it once a month and I feel semi obligated to wear it as DCC. Is it right?
2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux?
example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

[AlphaSigOU]

I have two questions actually:
1: as a member in his early twenties I havent been able to afford a service coat, let alone mess dress. So my blouse is all I have to display my rack. As it is my unit only wears it once a month and I feel semi obligated to wear it as DCC. Is it right?
2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux?
example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

Perfectly fine to wear your ribbon rack with the long or short-sleeve light blue shirt. I do it all the time. It is an unwritten tradition in USAF (and by extension, CAP) that officers generally do not wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, but if they wear the UMB (Universal Management Badge - aka pilot wings) they're required to do so.  So you won't get sent up the river for doing so. 

Nix on Coastie Auxie ribbons on the CAP uniform. (CG Aux won't allow ours to be worn on their uniform, either.) As for AD CG ribbons awarded to Auxies, this is where there's a gray area. They are legitimate military awards, awarded by competent military authority. But I'd probably ask first.

[MIKE]

1: as a member in his early twenties I havent been able to afford a service coat, let alone mess dress. So my blouse is all I have to display my rack. As it is my unit only wears it once a month and I feel semi obligated to wear it as DCC. Is it right?

I would say no, but that's just my opinion based on USAF custom.  

2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux?
example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

From looking at CAPR 39-3 the answer would seem to be no,  even though the awards would most likely be authorized on the uniform had you been AD or Reserve instead of an Auxie.

Note that CAP ribbons are not authorized on the Auxiliary uniform, per the AUXMAN.

[Hawk200]

2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux?
example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

Not really a yea or nay, but I would doubt that. CAP members don't currently receive many decs directly from the Air Force. Many might people might argue that since that doesn't happen that your Coast Guard ribbons themselves shouldn't be worn.

That being said, on the basis of my opinion, I think they ought to be allowed. The Coast Guard ribbons, not the Auxie ones. My reasoning is that they are legitimate recognized Federal awards. Plus, you got called up by the Coast Guard itself on one of their Federal missions, not just an Auxiliary mission. Personally, I don't think it should matter that you were Auxiliary, and not active Coast Guard or Coast Guard Reserve.

[MIKE]

I didn't think he was talking about Auxie specific awards, but the USCG Team Awards which are also awarded to Auxies... Which are recognized federal awards.

Missed out on the CGPUC for Katrina by this much.  [darn] PSI!

[SAR-EMT1]

Correction we dont recieve ANY decs from the AF. Our lack of use/ recognition  by the USAF was one of the major draws the CG-Aux had for me. I wear CG ribbons, can serve as an EMT on a cutter etc...

[SAR-EMT1]

Thanks Mike, that is what I was refering to....so...any answers from fellow CG auxies?

[MIKE]

Thanks Mike, that is what I was refering to....so...any answers from fellow CG auxies?

Yeah... My reply... I R an Auxie.

[SAR-EMT1]

color me foolish but did you actually answer the question? - Can we wear the 'team' awards?

[captrncap]

Cadets know that many Sr Member's ( or Officer's ) ribbons did not require the same degree of work to attain as Cadet  achievements.

I would disagree with this. The only ribbon that a senior gets handed to them is the membership ribbon (that's just bling) but the other PD levels must be earned. To compare Cadet requirement to Senior requirements for ribbons is like comparing apples to oranges.

Also, why should a senior be looked at different if they get an encampment ribbon. I had to get up at 0500 and didn't end my duty day until 2400 for 10 day and 2 training weekends. I worked with the flight commander and sergeant all day, every day and was responsible for the safety and well being of the cadets in sleeping quarters. Why should that ribbon be discounted?

I'll be the first to say that none of thses are sufficient to recompense the risk and sacrifice attendant on military setvice.

However -- considering that CAP members pay for most of our uniforms (virtually all, except for some cadet issued materiel), pay for our training, pay for our transportation, housing and feeding at CAP events, contribute family time, vacation time (and by the way, I understand that military personnel who are CAP members do the exact same things as the rest of us) -- if a ribbon is going to make someone feel appreciated, if it's going to motivate that person, or cause her/him to re-dedicate themselves to CAP, then let's give it to them.

Agreed. CAP needs some way to recognize its members for their devotion and accomplishments. We can never equate a Purple Heart with a CAP ribbon but that's not the point. Both recognize the person for the action.

[MIKE]

color me foolish but did you actually answer the question? - Can we wear the 'team' awards?

Reply #47.  If I read CAPR 39-3 right, the answer is no.

[Dragoon]

Cadets know that many Sr Member's ( or Officer's ) ribbons did not require the same degree of work to attain as Cadet  achievements.

I would disagree with this. The only ribbon that a senior gets handed to them is the membership ribbon (that's just bling) but the other PD levels must be earned. To compare Cadet requirement to Senior requirements for ribbons is like comparing apples to oranges.

Also, why should a senior be looked at different if they get an encampment ribbon. I had to get up at 0500 and didn't end my duty day until 2400 for 10 day and 2 training weekends. I worked with the flight commander and sergeant all day, every day and was responsible for the safety and well being of the cadets in sleeping quarters. Why should that ribbon be discounted?

I don't think anyone would argue about the encampment ribbon - that's hard work for everyone invoved.  However, most senior PD ribbons are easier for us than the cadet ones are for them.

Their "Membership" Ribbon (the curry) has 2 tests you must pass.  Ours has none.
Their "Leadership" Ribbon (Wright Brothers) has 3 tests.  Ours has one, or maybe two for some specialty tracks.
Their Loening (the Mitchell) has a heck of a test.  Ours has none.
Ditto their "Garber"(Earhart) and "Gill Rob Wilson" (Spaatz)

Plus you've got more than 10 individual achievement test between each of these milestones!

Cadets often FAIL these tests and don't get promoted.  For us, it's more a matter of sitting through the classes. 

I did 'em all on both sides, and the cadet ones were much harder.

[Hawk200]

I don't think anyone would argue about the encampment ribbon - that's hard work for everyone invoved.  However, most senior PD ribbons are easier for us than the cadet ones are for them.

Their "Membership" Ribbon (the curry) has 2 tests you must pass.  Ours has none.
Their "Leadership" Ribbon (Wright Brothers) has 3 tests.  Ours has one, or maybe two for some specialty tracks.
Their Loening (the Mitchell) has a heck of a test.  Ours has none.
Ditto their "Garber"(Earhart) and "Gill Rob Wilson" (Spaatz)

Plus you've got more than 10 individual achievement test between each of these milestones!

Cadets often FAIL these tests and don't get promoted.  For us, it's more a matter of sitting through the classes. 

I did 'em all on both sides, and the cadet ones were much harder.

So how many people think we ought to reduce the number of PD awards? I've got a few ideas...

[DNall]

I have two questions actually:
1: as a member in his early twenties I havent been able to afford a service coat, let alone mess dress. So my blouse is all I have to display my rack. As it is my unit only wears it once a month and I feel semi obligated to wear it as DCC. Is it right?

You really want me to respond to that? 

2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux? example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

Yes the CG ribbons are good to go on top of CAP, CGAux ribbons are not. Then again someone will post the thing about "awarded by cometent military authority for service in the armed services..." I don't know on that, call Susie Parker at HQ & ask. I'm sure the answer is we're reading too much into it & you're welcome to put them on.

[MIKE]

2: As one who holds a membership not just in CAP but the CG-Aux. Am I allowed to wear any coastie ribbons on my CAP uniform if issued through AD CG channels to the Aux? example: the Unit Commendation we got after Katrina.

Yes the CG ribbons are good to go on top of CAP, CGAux ribbons are not. Then again someone will post the thing about "awarded by cometent military authority for service in the armed services..." I don't know on that, call Susie Parker at HQ & ask. I'm sure the answer is we're reading too much into it & you're welcome to put them on.

I said no because of the wording in 39-3, but if you call Susie Parker she'll give you the answer of the day according to the magic 8-ball.

[James Shaw]

I was asking the National Historian his opinion on how many ribbons one should wear and his reply was
"everyone youv'e earned". Be proud of them all youve earned them!

The service jacket will hold 35 and still be in regs!

A member of the GAWG staff wears 33 on his.

[PhotogPilot]

As a member of the "White Shirt" club, I keep two versions of the short sleve shirt, a "high bling", with a 3x3 ribbon rack, full size wings, name plate and senior PAO badge, and a "low bling", with mini-wings, and name plate only. The one I wear depends on factors ranging from what I'm doing routine meeting or recruiting event or which one happens to be clean. (I don't own a corp service coat at the moment). I think it's a matter of personal preference.

ps to the Chief, one of your posts regarding the use of the word "bling" to signify decorations and awards has given me something to think about, I have to think up new designations. High and low carb maybe?

[Chappie]

Been reading and digesting all the posts in this thread .... here's my personal practice and philosophy:

1)  I never wear the ribbons on my short-sleeve blue shirt (or on those rare occassions with the white aviator) in keeping with the USAF Officers culture.  Many of our Chaplain Service Region Staff Colleges are conducted on active USAF bases...so it much easier never to have them on than have to remove them.

2)  Since cadets are not familiar with most of Senior Member Officers' training, any explanation of the ribbons would be lost on them.

3)  I do proudly wear my ribbons on the service dress jacket and the mini-medals on the mess dress since they are a visual "resume" of my CAP career.  While they may be considered easier to earn than those of cadets, it still took this old geezer some time and effort to earn them.  If and when I had been a cadet, I would not have received the Wright Brothers ribbon....I would have received the Icarus ribbon 

4)  My use of the term "bling" in previous posts was used in response to those who used the term -- it does irk me however for people to pursue the award without ever intending to utilize the training behind that particular award (IOW - awards for awards sake; a check in a box).  It is my hope that whatever award/recognition has been bestowed on me in my CAP career has been earned and would result in benefiting others. 

[DNall]

As a member of the "White Shirt" club, I keep two versions of the short sleve shirt, a "high bling", with a 3x3 ribbon rack, full size wings, name plate and senior PAO badge, and a "low bling", with mini-wings, and name plate only. The one I wear depends on factors ranging from what I'm doing routine meeting or recruiting event or which one happens to be clean. (I don't own a corp service coat at the moment). I think it's a matter of personal preference.

ps to the Chief, one of your posts regarding the use of the word "bling" to signify decorations and awards has given me something to think about, I have to think up new designations. High and low carb maybe?

Whatever, when the standards for earning abasic rating in something are soo low, or when it's so over the top you look like a dictator general cause you're concieted, that's bling.

FYI, the full size wings really are for the service coat, mini for the shirt. They used to be called shirt & jacket wings. There's no rule against it, but it looks really dumb.

[PhotogPilot]

To each his own. You may think the standards are too low, maybe they are. but I wear my uniform as I see fit in accordance with ALL applicable regulations. If the regs change, then I will change to comply. Almost everyone in my squadron who wears the aviator shirt combo weears full size wings, you might think it looks dumb, but on me, (not a "miniature" guy), the mini wings get lost. Plus, I don't think a rack of 9 ribbons, each of which earned IAW CAP regs, makes me look like a South American Banana Republic dictator.

[Monty]

The service jacket will hold 35 and still be in regs!

Don't forget that AAFES was good enough to make smaller-sized coats for we in the "munchkin gang" seniors, who round UP to 68" in height and are a buck fifty or so.

Our service dress coats are proportionately smaller than y'all's....less surface area for doodads won't equal 35 ribbons in my case without some staggering help (and yes, I would know.)



That was AFROTC 101 for us; look at bio photos.  If whomever photographed had small surface area between their lapels and the pocket flap, they were shorties like some of us.  The guy with 18 rows and no need to stagger was directly related to *Ho Ho Ho Green Giant* as sure as anything.   

[DNall]

To each his own. You may think the standards are too low, maybe they are. but I wear my uniform as I see fit in accordance with ALL applicable regulations. If the regs change, then I will change to comply. Almost everyone in my squadron who wears the aviator shirt combo weears full size wings, you might think it looks dumb, but on me, (not a "miniature" guy), the mini wings get lost. Plus, I don't think a rack of 9 ribbons, each of which earned IAW CAP regs, makes me look like a South American Banana Republic dictator.

There's regs (min standards) & then there's customs (cultural expectations) that exceed regs. If you don't follow both then people are going to look at you funny. There's nothing that says you can't wear full size wings on the shirt in the AF either, or minis on the service coat, but no one does it. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

9 ribbons isn't dictator style, in fact I didn't refer to anything about what you described as bling. I merely explained that bling refers to going overboard with it when really we're supposed to have this image as humble servants of the people & all.

[MIKE]

To each his own. You may think the standards are too low, maybe they are. but I wear my uniform as I see fit in accordance with ALL applicable regulations. If the regs change, then I will change to comply. Almost everyone in my squadron who wears the aviator shirt combo weears full size wings, you might think it looks dumb, but on me, (not a "miniature" guy), the mini wings get lost. Plus, I don't think a rack of 9 ribbons, each of which earned IAW CAP regs, makes me look like a South American Banana Republic dictator.

There's regs (min standards) & then there's customs (cultural expectations) that exceed regs. If you don't follow both then people are going to look at you funny. There's nothing that says you can't wear full size wings on the shirt in the AF either, or minis on the service coat, but no one does it. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Anyone care to qualify this statement, because it seems to me that most people in the AF are wearing regular sized wings/badges on the shirts and not minis.

[Monty]

To each his own. You may think the standards are too low, maybe they are. but I wear my uniform as I see fit in accordance with ALL applicable regulations. If the regs change, then I will change to comply. Almost everyone in my squadron who wears the aviator shirt combo weears full size wings, you might think it looks dumb, but on me, (not a "miniature" guy), the mini wings get lost. Plus, I don't think a rack of 9 ribbons, each of which earned IAW CAP regs, makes me look like a South American Banana Republic dictator.

There's regs (min standards) & then there's customs (cultural expectations) that exceed regs. If you don't follow both then people are going to look at you funny. There's nothing that says you can't wear full size wings on the shirt in the AF either, or minis on the service coat, but no one does it. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Anyone care to qualify this statement, because it seems to me that most people in the AF are wearing regular sized wings/badges on the shirts and not minis.

In my experience, small stuff on shirts, big stuff on coats.  9 times out of 10, if there are two sizes of something sold, it isn't because one size is for ladies and one size is for fellers....



The only real exception was that minis were always worn on the mess dress.  Perhaps I was so used to the way my fellow airmen and I did things, that I may not remember if there was a formal mention of the practice in 35-10/36-2903.

I do know that if there was the option for small stuff to go on shirts and mess dress uniforms and somebody wore the large, they'd have been laughed off the planet.

"Attempting to compensate for something, hero?"   

[Hawk200]

Anyone care to qualify this statement, because it seems to me that most people in the AF are wearing regular sized wings/badges on the shirts and not minis.

For the most part people in the Air Force wore full size ones. The biggest reason was that the detail on the minis was so fine that you had to get rather close to tell which one it was sometimes. In some instances, a little too close for some peoples comfort. But it wasn't uncommon to see minis worn on blue shirts/blouses. In a weeks time, I would see at least a couple people wearing them.

The Air Force has done away with the minis, and is currently going to the "mid size" badges for other than wings. The detail is better and doesn't require someone to get so close either. I believe the Army has followed suit, as all the smaller size badges I've seen in the Army military clothing are more in-line with the Air Force "mid size" badges. They seem to look better too.

[Hawk200]

The only real exception was that minis were always worn on the mess dress.  Perhaps I was so used to the way my fellow airmen and I did things, that I may not remember if there was a formal mention of the practice in 35-10/36-2903.

I believe there was in 35-10 (yes, I was in that far back), and I think earlier renditions of 36-2903 (prior to '98) required it. The previous copies of 2903 that I have state that the badges worn on mess dress may be all regular size, or all miniature.

The current reg requires midsize or regular size badges. With the usual caveat that you can't mix the two sizes, unless one is a medical badge (which were never made in miniature as far as I've found).

[DNall]

Well mid is the new mini for the purpose of this discussion. Full size service coat wings are huge. They'd look silly on a shirt, especialy office style w/o ribbons.

[Hawk200]

Well mid is the new mini for the purpose of this discussion. Full size service coat wings are huge. They'd look silly on a shirt, especialy office style w/o ribbons.

Yeah, pretty much. Give it a few years, and they will start calling those "mini".

After thinking about it, one thing I did see the Air Force that was more common was the aircrew types wearing "mini" wings on blue shirts/blouses. I don't know if that is why CAP does it that way or not. Would be interesting to know.

[Hammer]

There are miniature ribbons (not the enamel lapel pins, actual ribbons) available for the Air Force. I've seen them, but don't know where to get them. I think CAP should consider this, it would allow wear of a large amount of ribbons in a smaller space.

Are those authorized?  Anybody got pics and more info, cuz now you've got me curious///

[DNall]

I don't think there's anything in the reg one way or the other, but obviously they didn't plan for that & CAP versions aren't produced. That same place everyone always posts (with the thinner ribbons) does the minis, and they might actually do CAP minis also since they make all their own stuff, incl CAP ribbons.

Aircrew hoping people can't tell it's not pilot wings    No, I hadn't noticed any dif to tell you the truth. Seems like no one ever wore full-size on the shirt. Their freakin almost as wide as the pocket flap. That jsut looks really really wierd - I'd go with ameteurish, no offense to anyone that may like wearing it that way, just being honest what I'd think on seeing that.

[Hawk200]

There are miniature ribbons (not the enamel lapel pins, actual ribbons) available for the Air Force. I've seen them, but don't know where to get them. I think CAP should consider this, it would allow wear of a large amount of ribbons in a smaller space.

Are those authorized?  Anybody got pics and more info, cuz now you've got me curious///

They are authorized on the AF uniform, but I have yet to find the source. A good friend of mine saw a senior NCO at Air University wearing them, but he didn't get the chance to ask her about them. He asked me about them, as he hadn't seen them before.

The Air Force reg does mention criteria for mini ribbons, which are basically the same width as the cloth drape on mini medals (in other words only half as long). As DNall mentioned they are not authorized for CAP. It would be nice if they were, I could put everything on without stacking too high.

[Monty]

I've never seen such a thing....must be weird to see miniature ribbons...

[Hawk200]

I've never seen such a thing....must be weird to see miniature ribbons...

They're pretty recognizable as their full size counterparts. The biggest thing I like about the concept is that I can put two minis in the same space as one full size. Would reduce the size of my ribbon rack tremendously, without reducing number.

If you want to know what it really looks like, take a mini medal, and fold the drape under the hanger portion so that you don't see the drape. That's about it.

[James Shaw]

Found an interesting picture today!

Wear em if ya got em!

[Monty]

Found an interesting picture today!

Wear em if ya got em!

Glad you found those photos....did you happen to find the spot in 36-2903 that gives those fellers no alternative but to wear them ALL on their Service Dress coats?   

You'll likely find that AF Officers can roll right up to the epaulet and down their backs with their ribbons; they've no "notch" restriction, which thankfully CAP has for we big kids. 

BTW, you know that Mike Moseley is one of the folks that's overseeing an Air Force that's really ramped up it's trinkets lately, right?  Why, in fact...your photo of him is outdated - a new one was published recently with the new HQ AF badge below his nametag: http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6545

(If I so much as even see a new thread suggesting that we create headquarters badge now, I'm gonna get sick....pure dee sick.)   

[BillB]

(If I so much as even see a new thread suggesting that we create headquarters badge now, I'm gonna get sick....pure dee sick.)   

We have one, It's called the NEC badge or even the National Board Badge.

[DNall]

NB badge is kind oif redundant w/ the new CC badge isn't it?

The first photo there is a perfect example. If you are going to stack that much stuff you need to go four wide or it looks insane. If an onlooker sees you had a choice to make & you decided to go with the less conservative approach, that generally looks like your compensating or just egotistical.

[ddelaney103]

NB badge is kind oif redundant w/ the new CC badge isn't it?

The first photo there is a perfect example. If you are going to stack that much stuff you need to go four wide or it looks insane. If an onlooker sees you had a choice to make & you decided to go with the less conservative approach, that generally looks like your compensating or just egotistical.

Remember that the AF doesn't get a choice - you have to wear all on Service Dress.

You can shred out a bunch as an SM - like the lower level SM awards (if you have Gerber, membership is kind of redundant) or prereq's (Encampment attendance can be assumed if you have Mitchell or better).

That being said, 3 vs 4 is a matter of chest size - many can't wear a ribbon bar that wide without it needing to bend.

We could really use to get the Col's out of wearing the NB/NEC badge once they step down, otherwise there's no way to tell the serving from the have served.

[James Shaw]

Looks pretty [darn] intimidating, impressive, and egotistical all at the same time. I would wear the 4 wide on the first couple of bottom rows if the need arrises.

[Hawk200]

We could really use to get the Col's out of wearing the NB/NEC badge once they step down, otherwise there's no way to tell the serving from the have served.

I doubt that would happen. High ranking brass likes their bling just as much as cadets.

[James Shaw]

I personally like the bottom 4 rows with 4 ribbons and then go up. I feel it looks neater. You can fit 35 to 36 with that method.

Egotistical ? Maybe
Overzealious ? Possibly
Pride ? Definitely

[DNall]

I personally like the bottom 4 rows with 4 ribbons and then go up. I feel it looks neater. You can fit 35 to 36 with that method.

Egotistical ? Maybe
Overzealious ? Possibly
Pride ? Definitely

Sergeants are proud, Lts are overzealous, Four star generals that are proud, overzealous, or egotistical get lots of people killed. Bad message to send to subordinates.

[flight dispatcher]

http://www.afa.org/magazine/July2006/0706bluesuit.asp


Some related material in this article.

[MIKE]

With the cut of the new style service dress the staggered racks can sometime look a little off.  JMHO.

[mikeylikey]

http://www.afa.org/magazine/July2006/0706bluesuit.asp


Some related material in this article.

Thats a really cool article!  I can just imagine all those that moved to the AF in '47, decked out with all their Army bling, and brand new airman without anything on thier uniform.  They should have spent more time on the uniform, and I think it would have turned out better today. 

[ZigZag911]

We could really use to get the Col's out of wearing the NB/NEC badge once they step down, otherwise there's no way to tell the serving from the have served.

Doesn't USAF simply change the placement of the badge for 'past commanders'?

CAP should follow suit; that would convey the needed information while keeping those wearing birds happy!

[Hawk200]

Doesn't USAF simply change the placement of the badge for 'past commanders'?

CAP should follow suit; that would convey the needed information while keeping those wearing birds happy!

Yes, they do. Present or current commanders wear the badge one-half inch above the nametag. Past or "graduated" commanders wear the insignia below the nametag.

Added letter on Air Force Command Insignia

[MIKE]

The NB/NEC badges are a whole different animal than the Commanders badge though...

Back to the topic.

[Fifinella]

Perfectly fine to wear your ribbon rack with the long or short-sleeve light blue shirt. I do it all the time. It is an unwritten tradition in USAF (and by extension, CAP) that officers generally do not wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, but if they wear the UMB (Universal Management Badge - aka pilot wings) they're required to do so.  So you won't get sent up the river for doing so. 

No, you don't have to wear the ribbons when you wear the badges - even aeronautical ones. 

AFI 36-2903   2 AUGUST 2006                  p. 21
Figure 2.4.  Men's Short-Sleeved Shirt.
NOTES:
1. Center name tag on (but not over) edge of right pocket.
2. Center ribbons resting on (but not over) edge of pocket between the left and right edges.  Ribbons
are optional.  If worn, all ribbons and devices will be worn.  See Figure 4.3. for arrangement of
ribbons.
3. Air Force members are highly encouraged to wear their current occupational badge. Aeronautical
and chaplain badges are mandatory, others are optional.  Wear only midsize or regular badges, do
not mix sizes. Center aeronautical, occupational, or miscellaneous badge 1/2 inch above ribbons
or pocket if not wearing ribbons.  Center additional badge 1/2 inch above the first one.  Center
duty or miscellaneous badge on lower portion of left pocket between left and right edges and bot-
tom of flap and pocket, and/or on right pocket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and
pocket.  EXCEPTIONS:  Missile badge is only worn centered on left pocket.  Excel-
lence-In-Competition badge is worn centered on top edge of left pocket flap.
4. Air Force Command Insignia:  Current commanders wear the insignia centered 1?2 inch above the nametag.  Graduated commanders, when worn, wear the insignia centered below the nametag
between the nametag and the button of the right pocket flap.  AF Command Insignia is mandatory.

[DNall]

Perfectly fine to wear your ribbon rack with the long or short-sleeve light blue shirt. I do it all the time. It is an unwritten tradition in USAF (and by extension, CAP) that officers generally do not wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, but if they wear the UMB (Universal Management Badge - aka pilot wings) they're required to do so.  So you won't get sent up the river for doing so. 

No, you don't have to wear the ribbons when you wear the badges - even aeronautical ones. 

Try that again, he didn't say you needed to wear ribbons to wear badges. He said:
1) you are required to wear aeronautical badges (which techincally also applies to parachutist & halo, but that's not the practice)
2) Officers are discouraged from wearing ribbons on the shirt, but must wear wings & should wear any other current job spec badge.

I follow this policy also. I do toss ribbons on the shirt at times in CAP for sorta formal occations. I have & would MUCH prefer to toss on the service coat for that short portion of the event or the whole event if need be, but most CAP members don;t have service coats so that forces default back to the shirt. We have a good supply of old-style & enlisted service coats though & issue them to cadets for warmth (best we can do), so I do actually get to wear my coat a bit.

[Fifinella]

Not trying to start something, but yes he DID say "officers generally do not wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, but if they wear the UMB (Universal Management Badge - aka pilot wings) they're required to do so."

Perfectly fine to wear your ribbon rack with the long or short-sleeve light blue shirt. I do it all the time. It is an unwritten tradition in USAF (and by extension, CAP) that officers generally do not wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, but if they wear the UMB (Universal Management Badge - aka pilot wings) they're required to do so.  So you won't get sent up the river for doing so. 

No, you don't have to wear the ribbons when you wear the badges - even aeronautical ones. 

Try that again, he didn't say you needed to wear ribbons to wear badges. He said:
1) you are required to wear aeronautical badges (which techincally also applies to parachutist & halo, but that's not the practice)
2) Officers are discouraged from wearing ribbons on the shirt, but must wear wings & should wear any other current job spec badge.

[AlphaSigOU]

Not trying to start something, but yes he DID say "officers generally do not wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, but if they wear the UMB (Universal Management Badge - aka pilot wings) they're required to do so."

And yes, I did... I should have clarified the sentence to add: "if they wear only badges on the blue shirt, especially the UMB..." Shoulda doublechecked myself.

[MississippiFlyboy]

I'm only a second louie but I feel that once you acquire a decent amount of ribbons, then you should pick the good ones to wear and leave the fluff off.  Anyone who knows what they stand for will be more impressed and probably have more respect for two rows of ribbons that require service way above the norm than a rack full of fluff. 

The SAR/DR ribbons I got during Katrina are the ones I take the most pride in wearing. Not because of how they look on the uniform but because they remind me of how much CAP did on the coast for the people that needed help.  That's worth a whole rack of "underwater basket weaving merit badges".

My 2 Pesos

[jason.pennington]

If I am going to be speaking to a non-CAP audience, I wear all of my stuff on my service coat.  For meetings, when I am in blues, I just wear wings and commander's pin.  While in the white aviator shirt, I'll usually wear CAP ribbons.  But in the coat I wear all of my Navy ribbons and CAP ribbons.