Vanguard Pricing Very High?

[RADIOMAN015]

Interesting point with Golf shirts:
Vanguard Screen Printed (one color white) Golf Shirt:  $22.00
http://www.vanguardmil.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6_440_454

American Radio Relay League Screen Printed multiple color Golf Shirt:  $12.95

Now I would assume that the ARRL is still making a profit on this.   Just for the sake of comparison, lets say that dark colored Golf Shirt add $2.00 to price, total: $14.95.

Perhaps the ARRL could be subcontracted to do the Golf Shirts for us
RM

[JC004]

What?

[jimmydeanno]

Are they the same thread count, cut, and color?  Who makes each shirt.  There's more to it than, "they're both golf shirts."  Like items are not same items.

[Eclipse]

Now I would assume that the ARRL is still making a profit on this. 

You might want to actually confirm that before making an issue of it, since if they are they would probably have to pay sales tax on the profits.

We get shirts made every year for cost by a member who is benevolent to CAP and has a shirt business.  Without someone working for free, we
would have to pay twice as much.

[a2capt]

A comment I picked up from the last nightly debrief at NCC this year was that t-shirts and pins were done away with due to budget issues and the sole-source requirement, making them of higher cost. "I could give you t-shirts, or I could give you lunch.. "

IOW, seems like units at various levels take things into their own hands and get the stuff done in various ways, and are now forced to the sole-source contractor that is no so competitive on their prices.  At least that was the gist of what it sounded like to me, with emphasis laid on the sole-source

[Ned]

As I understant it, NHQ is actively seeking a modification to the VG contract that will allow units/activities to procure small lots of things like CAP t-shirts from non-VG sources.  This is a direct result of member feedback.

Nothing is final yet.  Watch the NHQ website for developments.

Ned Lee

[JC004]

As I understant it, NHQ is actively seeking a modification to the VG contract that will allow units/activities to procure small lots of things like CAP t-shirts from non-VG sources.  This is a direct result of member feedback.

That is outstanding. 

Nothing is final yet.  Watch the NHQ website for developments.

Can't.  Hurts my eyes and brain.

[Thrashed]

From the Vanguard site:
"CIVIL AIR PATROL


A portion of all Civil Air Patrol sales are donated to Civil Air Patrol Headquarters for the enhancement of C.A.P programs.
All Civil Air Patrol orders are processed out of the Virginia location. Please call 1-800-221-1264 with any questions.

Vanguard Industries, Inc. supports the members of the Civil Air Patrol. Click Here to visit the Civil Air Patrol members page."

What you buy at Vanguard goes to support CAP. Vanguard is like a built in fundraiser. Don't you support CAP?

[CAPSGT]

Sure I support CAP.  I gave them my $1.32 when I bought my $22 polo.

Oh yeah, I also give CAP countless hours and direct donations to my squadron to help offset the squadron's expenses.

I just had more money to give my squadron (which is much more limited in income producing ability than NHQ) when I wasn't limited to the sole-source vendor.

[Zen Master Charlie]

No matter how you look at it, the monopoly that is Vangard is very high priced. I missed the low priced yet equally as great Hawk Shop... isnt there something in the Constitution about monopolies?  just sayin  I wish subcontracting was ok, but they just about killed the man behind the Hawk Shop... evil large corperations!

[Spaceman3750]

No matter how you look at it, the monopoly that is Vangard is very high priced. I missed the low priced yet equally as great Hawk Shop... isnt there something in the Constitution about monopolies?  just sayin  I wish subcontracting was ok, but they just about killed the man behind the Hawk Shop... evil large corperations!

Yes, those darn successful businessmen who through hard work came to get a contract...

Oh, and darn those evil Spaatz cadets for hogging all the diamonds too...

[Zen Master Charlie]

No matter how you look at it, the monopoly that is Vangard is very high priced. I missed the low priced yet equally as great Hawk Shop... isnt there something in the Constitution about monopolies?  just sayin  I wish subcontracting was ok, but they just about killed the man behind the Hawk Shop... evil large corperations!

Yes, those darn successful businessmen who through hard work came to get a contract...

Well goody for them, their hard earned success is costing me more money! Arent they just a bowl full of cherrioes!

[Spaceman3750]

No matter how you look at it, the monopoly that is Vangard is very high priced. I missed the low priced yet equally as great Hawk Shop... isnt there something in the Constitution about monopolies?  just sayin  I wish subcontracting was ok, but they just about killed the man behind the Hawk Shop... evil large corperations!

Yes, those darn successful businessmen who through hard work came to get a contract...

Well goody for them, their hard earned success is costing me more money! Arent they just a bowl full of cherrioes!

Life costs money. Volunteering costs money. There's no way around either and things are going to be easier on you if you accept that and budget accordingly.

[Zen Master Charlie]

No matter how you look at it, the monopoly that is Vangard is very high priced. I missed the low priced yet equally as great Hawk Shop... isnt there something in the Constitution about monopolies?  just sayin  I wish subcontracting was ok, but they just about killed the man behind the Hawk Shop... evil large corperations!

Yes, those darn successful businessmen who through hard work came to get a contract...

Well goody for them, their hard earned success is costing me more money! Arent they just a bowl full of cherrioes!

Life costs money. Volunteering costs money. There's no way around either and things are going to be easier on you if you accept that and budget accordingly.

Yes, we are all volunteers, but my question is, why does a monopoly have to be at the top of supply. Even the Air Force has subcontractors. They have one large company that got the contract and their stuff isnt that great, so they issue it, but soldiers have the option of purchasing better equipment from other companies at their own cost. Vangard for instance, is a subcontractor for military equipment. Vangard is to the U.S. Military, as The Hawk Shop was to CAP. So why does CAP have to have one loan uniform provider? Especially if CAP can't even keep up with supplying our new cadets with what they need. My family (My mom and I) have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on CAP equipment for cadets and a large factor in that is buying expensive blues uniforms from Vanguard, that nationals forgets to mail to new cadets. My point is, we paid a butt load of money to get stuff from the Hawk, why do we need to pay a butt load ontop of a buttload to get the same stuff from a Monopoly. You dont see the U.S. Military shutting down Vangard for being a subcontractor do you? Ofcourse not, because that would be against the constitution... I personally believe, that even though CAP awarded Vangard the contract, it was unconstitutional for them to shut down an independant company.

[jimmydeanno]

isnt there something in the Constitution about monopolies?

Have you read the Constitution?

[Eclipse]

Even the Air Force has subcontractors. They have one large company that got the contract and their stuff isnt that great, so they issue it,

The USAF needs subcontractors in order to fulfill their mission, CAP does not.

The USAF has ~500k personnel including the guard but not civilians, and they are spread out all over the world.  Their personnel are required to
own the full uniform compliment, and they wear their uniform and insignia 24x7(ish), so they need millions of pieces, and they wear them out at
a rate unheard of for CAP members.

Further, much of their insignia is "generic", meaning their officer and enlisted pins, etc., have nothing or very little that makes them "unique", and
therefore they are worn by countless millions of other services both US and foreign.

Not so for CAP which has 60k(ish) members, all in CONUS, and non of which are required to purchase anything but one set of Aviator whites, and on those all you need is the nametag.  Not exactly a "growing market".  In fact, the membership numbers have been basically static for more than a decade.

Tooling systems to create metal insignia is expensive, and companies will not be interested in doing it unless they see a sale market (preferably with growth), that will justify the investment and return some profits.   The only way to insure that market is through exclusivity with your vendors, after which you must enforce that situation or else lose the vendor or be subject to litigation for breach of contract.

If you license the insignia to "other", not only do you lose quality control, but you also further segment the sales market and lower the profit potential
for any company looking to enter it.  That's how you wind up with issues like the "alternate" vendor who went and had his own dies and setups done in the PAC-Rim, where the economics are "different" and we wound up with thousands of members wearing insignia, patches, and related items of poor quality, incorrect details, wrong colors, etc.

Further to that, though everyone express angst about the loss of the "alternate" vendor, few seem to remember that his prices were the same or higher in most cases than the official source.  He wasn't passing anything through at cost to his loyal fellow members, he was running a for-profit business.
Nothing wrong with that, per-se, but unless he opens his books to us for the sake of argument, who's to say he wasn't making up for lower volume with higher margins?

but soldiers have the option of purchasing better equipment from other companies at their own cost.

CAP members have the same option for much of what they wear, especially "consumables", and people making these arguments tend to forget or ignore
the fact that much of member insignia is passed around between members, especially cadets, which further dilutes the potential for profit.

Vangard for instance, is a subcontractor for military equipment. Vangard is to the U.S. Military, as The Hawk Shop was to CAP. So why does CAP have to have one loan uniform provider? Especially if CAP can't even keep up with supplying our new cadets with what they need.

Dress uniforms for the USAF come from the same place for everyone wearing them.  If you find them online direct, they are either knock-offs or
have been supplied by the same companies.  In most cases slow delivery of cadet uniform parts is due to internal CAP bureaucracy or annual budget issues, neither of which would be relieved by a different supplier.

Members are always free to go direct to AAFES or an MCSS and pay for their uniform, however during wartime they may well find AAFES' cupboards are bare as well.  There were thousands of Airmen scrambling to find blues a couple years ago when the CSAF decided everyone would wear them on Monday.  AAFES and MCSS were stripped clean for months.

My family (My mom and I) have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on CAP equipment for cadets and a large factor in that is buying expensive blues uniforms from Vanguard, that nationals forgets to mail to new cadets.

See above.

...we paid a butt load of money to get stuff from the Hawk,

Everything you bought from Hawk is optional, if the prices are to high, talk to them, not CAP, Inc.  Most of us here would agree that it is
all unnecessary  For the record, they are a monopoly as well.  That is like complaining you can only get your squadron's t-shirt direct from your squadron.

... because that would be against the constitution... I personally believe, that even though CAP awarded Vangard the contract, it was unconstitutional for them to shut down an independant company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution

[Zen Master Charlie]

isnt there something in the Constitution about monopolies?

Have you read the Constitution?

Indubidably! 

[Zen Master Charlie]

Even the Air Force has subcontractors. They have one large company that got the contract and their stuff isnt that great, so they issue it,

The USAF needs subcontractors in order to fulfill their mission, CAP does not.

Then tell me why when we went to order items for my Drill Team last month, more than half of the items were on back order, and shipping took 3 weeks? hmmmm... atleast The Hawk always got it to you within one week!

[Zen Master Charlie]

@Eclipse, Btw, let me know when the abbriviated version of that novel you just wrote comes out, I'd love to read it sometime...

[BuckeyeDEJ]

isnt there something in the Constitution about monopolies?

Have you read the Constitution?

Indubidably! 

***BUZZ***

No, you haven't. Go back and review. Thanks for playing.