Presidential Salute question

[Major Lord]

A salute is a greeting, no more, no less. It is a bit more formal that other greetings, but still just a greeting. I can easily equate with tipping one's hat, if I were wearing a hat. I frequently use a saluting type gesture with friends, particularly if they've been in the military, and "get it".

As for saluting a First Lady, I see nothing wrong with it. Does she "deserve" one? In a strict military context, no. Is it hurting any thing/body to do it? No. Is it disrespecting anyone? No.

YMMV.

Besides, which one of you heroes wants to tell those Marines that they screwed up by saluting the First Lady?

They were probably ordered to....

Major Lord

[SarDragon]

You need to cut back on the Kool-Aid, Alan.

It is an exchange of courtesy reserved by tradition for those in the profession or arms, and extended to a select few outside that group ( CAP, BSA, Etc.)

Reserved? Really? Where does it say that? Tradition frequently blurs practicality and reality.

Its a privilege paid for in blood, not a "high 5" for your home boys.

Privilege? How are you, or anyone else, going to revoke it, if I decide to render a salute to someone you don't approve of?

My first formal education to saluting was as a CAP cadet, in 1964, from the then current Phase 1 materials. It was described as a gesture made by armored knight - raising the visor with the right (weapon) hand - to show the knight's face, and friendliness by not reaching for a weapon. Later, it became more formal, and evolved into what we have today.

In the military (21 yrs, USN) and CAP, I salute(d) because the rules require it. I have no problem with that, and usually do so willingly. (There has been a small number of officers that I have so little respect for as individuals that I saluted only because of the rules.)

Out of uniform, I offer a salute because I want to, as the greeting and show of respect that it is. It might be exactly as snappy as I would render in uniform, but there's no mistaking what it is and why I did it.

I guess we see things differently.

[RRLE]

It looks like this whole thing is a hoax cooked up by the VRWC. 

The conservative (and other extreme) discussion boards have been discussing this topic with varying degrees of horror for days.
This one, Rebellion University WTF First Lady Now In Chain Of Command, is very typical of the hoax, including the misleading picture that started it all. Notice the blogger updated his post with this comment:

UPDATE: This is indeed a file picture and the President of the USA is ahead of Mrs O, just out of the frame.

He had to do that when one of the replies linked to this picture.

So how does it feel to have been 'had' (again).

[Flying Pig]

A salute is a greeting, no more, no less. It is a bit more formal that other greetings, but still just a greeting. I can easily equate with tipping one's hat, if I were wearing a hat. I frequently use a saluting type gesture with friends, particularly if they've been in the military, and "get it".

As for saluting a First Lady, I see nothing wrong with it. Does she "deserve" one? In a strict military context, no. Is it hurting any thing/body to do it? No. Is it disrespecting anyone? No.

YMMV.

Besides, which one of you heroes wants to tell those Marines that they screwed up by saluting the First Lady?

I would tell them.  I used to tell Marines they were screwing up all the time   By the way....is there a photo or video clip regarding what we are actually discussing?

[lordmonar]

Point for point.

There is no REQUIRMENT either in the regulations or by tradition to salute the First Lady.
But there is also no BAR to do so in either regulation or tradition.

If fact right here on the board we have heard many a time  "If in doubt, whip it out."

I was taught that POTUS is the only civilian who gets a salute....but I have seem many people salute SECDEF and the SECAF.

I my self have salute people who have not rated it....on purpose!

I guess we are all going to hell!

[SarDragon]

Pat - once again, you "get it".

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

You have confused the Head of the Government, who is the Prime Minister, with the Head of State, who is the Queen and represented by the Governor General.

Correct.

The situation is the same in Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, Antigua and Barbuda, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Grenada, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, and the Solomon Islands.

It's slightly different in Britain itself, since there is no vice-regal representative.

When one of the Royals visit here, it is usually in their capacity as the Royal Family of Canada.

Prince Charles holds the rank of Lieutenant-General in the Canadian Army:



Therefore, we would salute him not as Royalty, but as a general officer in an allied military.

There would be nothing more wrong with that than the Marine saluting Mrs Obama.

Would any of you disputing this be so churlish as to tell the First Lady "I don't have to salute you and I'm not going to?"

[davidsinn]

Therefore, we would salute him not as Royalty, but as a general officer in an allied military.

There would be nothing more wrong with that than the Marine saluting Mrs Obama.

Would any of you disputing this be so churlish as to tell the First Lady "I don't have to salute you and I'm not going to?"

Yes I would if she were to demand one. A Marine is required to salute a senior ranking allied officer though...

[SarDragon]

Yes I would if she were to demand one. A Marine is required to salute a senior ranking allied officer though...

I'd be willing to wager that some protocol person has filled in Mrs. Obama on salutes.

And how many of you will say that this is wrong?



That's exactly what salutes are all about!

[davidsinn]

Yes I would if she were to demand one. A Marine is required to salute a senior ranking allied officer though...

I'd be willing to wager that some protocol person has filled in Mrs. Obama on salutes.

Would that be the same protocol person that instructs you on the proper way to toast the queen?

And how many of you will say that this is wrong?



That's exactly what salutes are all about!

Only thing wrong in that pic is Mrs. Kennedy's choice of attire for junior...

[HGjunkie]

I don't see any pants... 

I my self have salute people who have not rated it....on purpose!

I guess we are all going to hell!

I do the goofy 2-fingered salute to my friends all the time, every once in a while I'll do a full-on salute. I'm going to hell for violating the non-existing regulation I guess... 

[SarDragon]

Would that be the same protocol person that instructs you on the proper way to toast the queen?

Sadly, probably yes.

Regarding the apparel, he's in shorts.

[davidsinn]

Would that be the same protocol person that instructs you on the proper way to toast the queen?

Sadly, probably yes.

Regarding the apparel, he's in shorts.

I don't think so because it's the same outfit Caroline is wearing...

[SarDragon]

Mr Sinn, how old are you?

I was 14 years old, and watched all of this stuff live on TV, as it happened. He was wearing shorts.

[PHall]

Not to mention let's have a little respect for the dead, shall we. They're not around to defend themselves.

[davidsinn]

Mr Sinn, how old are you?

I was 14 years old, and watched all of this stuff live on TV, as it happened. He was wearing shorts.

26. I'm just calling it like I see it. I remember being told when I was little and saw a picture of that and asked why he was wearing a skirt that it was not unheard of once upon a time to put little boys in a skirt.

[Flying Pig]

Yes I would if she were to demand one. A Marine is required to salute a senior ranking allied officer though...

I'd be willing to wager that some protocol person has filled in Mrs. Obama on salutes.

And how many of you will say that this is wrong?



That's exactly what salutes are all about!

They arent saluting her.  They are saluting President Kennedys casket that is just outside the left side of the photo being placed on the caisson.  Thats why the Army officer is facing the direction he is.  Its also visible in other photos and in the videos of the ceremony.

[lordmonar]

Yes I would if she were to demand one. A Marine is required to salute a senior ranking allied officer though...

I'd be willing to wager that some protocol person has filled in Mrs. Obama on salutes.

And how many of you will say that this is wrong?

That's exactly what salutes are all about!

They arent saluting her.  They are saluting President Kennedys casket that is just outside the left side of the photo being placed on the caisson.  Thats why the Army officer is facing the direction he is.  Its also visible in other photos and in the videos of the ceremony.

I think he was pointing out that Little Jack Jack....is performing a military salute to which he has not "earned the right" to perform.

[SarDragon]

Thank you, Pat.