Missouri Bootheel Levee Demolition

[ol'fido]

It was announced on WSIL-TV in Carterville, IL tonight at 6pm that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers will make multiple explosive breaches of the Birds Point Levee in Southeast Missouri thereby flooding about 130,000 acres of MO farmland in the flood plain in order to take pressure off of the floodwall at Cairo, IL. The decision came from MG Michael Walsh head of the COE St. Louis District. The demolition will commence at 9pm CDT. About 220 MO residents live and farm in this area. They have already been evacuated.

We are going from worse to worst down here with the flooding. There have been record rainfalls and storms on top of the floods that were expected from the snow melt this year. I was on a training sortie Sat that flew over the area and many areas are flooded and others holding on by a thread. If we don't have some dry weather it's going to get really ugly down here.

[Spaceman3750]

It was announced on WSIL-TV in Carterville, IL tonight at 6pm that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers will make multiple explosive breaches of the Birds Point Levee in Southeast Missouri thereby flooding about 130,000 acres of MO farmland in the flood plain in order to take pressure off of the floodwall at Cairo, IL. The decision came from MG Michael Walsh head of the COE St. Louis District. The demolition will commence at 9pm CDT. About 220 MO residents live and farm in this area. They have already been evacuated.

We are going from worse to worst down here with the flooding. There have been record rainfalls and storms on top of the floods that were expected from the snow melt this year. I was on a training sortie Sat that flew over the area and many areas are flooded and others holding on by a thread. If we don't have some dry weather it's going to get really ugly down here.

It doesn't sound pretty. Stay safe, hopefully ILWG doesn't look like MOWG next weekend.

[Майор Хаткевич]

It doesn't sound pretty. Stay safe, hopefully ILWG doesn't look like MOWG next weekend.

Ouch...

[Spaceman3750]

It doesn't sound pretty. Stay safe, hopefully ILWG doesn't look like MOWG next weekend.

Ouch...

I meant that I hope ILWG doesn't posses lake-like qualities in the lower half. What do you think I meant?

[Eclipse]

Well...I now know more about Cairo and Southern Illinois than I did before, and I have to say the whole situation is a mess. 
Based on location it looks like Cairo would be erased if the Mississippi flooded, and considering the economic situation
would likely never recover.



Another decision I am glad I didn't have to make - economically ravaged but historic town vs. working farmers who can probably
barely keep their head above water as it is (no pun intended).  Morton must be eating heartily with all his utensils tonight.

While it looks like flooding is basically a way of life for Cairo,the Bird's Point Levee is part of the New Madrid Floodway, created
specifically to relieve Mississippi River flooding. http://www.mvm.usace.army.mil/Readiness/bpnm/bpnminfo.asp 

This site explains it better: http://www.johnweeks.com/river_mississippi/pages/lmiss00.html


Video of the first blasts here: http://www.kfvs12.com/story/14557528/corps-of-engineers-to-breach-levee
and here: http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-army-corps-will-blast-levee-prevent-cairo-flooding-050211,0,2598473.story

[ol'fido]

Thanks for the info and pics, Bob. I don't have the computer skills to put all that up.

[RiverAux]

Any CAP activations for flood-related missions along the Mississippi?

Edit- answering my own question: http://www.capvolunteernow.com/news.cfm/mo_wing_continues_to_assess_flooding?show=news&newsID=10557

[Eclipse]

None from ILWG that I am aware of, however there was a previously scheduled SAREx in that general area last weekend and from I understand they did aerial survey of the area and it looks pretty bad.

With Ardent Sentry coming up in about a week, I wouldn't be surprised if they roll in some real-world missions into the scenarios.

MOWG seems to be heavily involved on their side, includig utilizing the new GIIEP system:
http://www.news-leader.com/article/20110501/NEWS01/110501011
http://capvolunteernow.com/news.cfm/mo_wing_continues_to_assess_flooding?show=news&newsID=10557
edit: not directly related to this situation...

[davidsinn]

Well...I now know more about Cairo and Southern Illinois than I did before, and I have to say the whole situation is a mess. 
Based on location it looks like Cairo would be erased if the Mississippi flooded, and considering the economic situation
would likely never recover.



Another decision I am glad I didn't have to make - economically ravaged but historic town vs. working farmers who can probably
barely keep their head above water as it is (no pun intended).  Morton must be eating heartily with all his utensils tonight.

While it looks like flooding is basically a way of life for Cairo,the Bird's Point Levee is part of the New Madrid Floodway, created
specifically to relieve Mississippi River flooding. http://www.mvm.usace.army.mil/Readiness/bpnm/bpnminfo.asp 

This site explains it better: http://www.johnweeks.com/river_mississippi/pages/lmiss00.html


Video of the first blasts here: http://www.kfvs12.com/story/14557528/corps-of-engineers-to-breach-levee
and here: http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-army-corps-will-blast-levee-prevent-cairo-flooding-050211,0,2598473.story

From what the Army Corp was saying they are only going to get three or four days out of this then the water is right back where it started. So we destroy 150 thousand acres of prime crop land for nothing. In my opinion they blew the levee on the wrong side. They should wipe the town out and move it to higher ground. I've heard that Cairo is a crap hole anyway so it would actually be an improvement for them to start over.

[coudano]

http://capvolunteernow.com/news.cfm/mo_wing_continues_to_assess_flooding?show=news&newsID=10557

These are separate from the bootheel and birds point levee / cairo illinois.
The link provides images from a different mission on the southwest part of Missouri.
The dates are very close together, thus the confusion.

[Spaceman3750]

CAP photos from Missouri: http://health.mo.gov/data/gis/civilpatrol.html

EDIT: Actually, some of these appear to be NG photos as well, based on the photos from the back of a helicopter (Chinook?).

[coudano]

Actually I believe those photos are actually being short out the back cargo door of a sherpa

[commando1]

Any CAP activations for flood-related missions along the Mississippi?

We have not been officially activated but my unit has been down in Memphis filling/stacking sandbags to brace the seawall around the Memphis Pyramid. The Mississippi is forecasted to crest at 48 feet. Thats about 15-20 feet above flood stage. 

[davidsinn]

Any CAP activations for flood-related missions along the Mississippi?

We have not been officially activated but my unit has been down in Memphis filling/stacking sandbags to brace the seawall around the Memphis Pyramid. The Mississippi is forecasted to crest at 48 feet. Thats about 15-20 feet above flood stage. 

You couldn't get an unfunded corporate number to do it? My wing was doing just that in Evansville last week. Doing rogue ops like you are is not a smart thing to do. Posting it on the internet is even dumber.

[a2capt]

"my unit" ... or ... " a bunch of us (commonly related by membership to a politically operating, military structured/affiliated organization)" in the end, the work gets done.

[Eclipse]

It may have gotten "done", but not done correctly, and it sets a bad precedent.

That's part of the problem we have with activation and deployment.  I'm sure the majority of this situation will be POTUS-designated disasters,
but sometimes CAP is so hungry to "get involved", that they short-change themselves on the spin-up.

The AFRCC ought to be allowing all of this as an Funded A-Mission, but as soon as the NOC gets wind that someone else will pay, or when members
just "roll their own", they disavow and then all bets are off.

This highlights the need for both local and wing coordination and contacts being made and maintained before the blades are brown.

Its also a great way to engender bad feelings in rank-and-file members who may not know the difference between self-activated "disavowed" activities
and mission coverage.  I know if I got wind of members doing ES ops without authorization, what they would be receiving as "thank you" would not be
decorations.

[a2capt]

I'm not there, I don't know, I don't live next to a river with the threat of this  .. but ..

I still don't get the whole thing here anyway. Flood some other peoples stuff so .. some other peoples stuff doesn't get flooded.
Maybe the river bank wasn't such a great idea for the town to be located.  Just like half of New Orleans.

But then again, hurricanes hit the barrier islands off the Carolinas and ... people build again.

Whatever.

I don't have to worry about floods, I don't have to worry about tornados typically, but a Fukushima like tsunami might be a worry, in the valley below, or the whole mesa could go sliding.. but the floods from a swollen river are a tad more predictable.

[Eclipse]

I'm with you there - people live in a of awesome places they don't belong, and in most cases they started living there because
of technology which did not exist at the time, and make living there unnecessary today.

Considering the economic climate of NOLA, and the massive undertaking it will be to rebuild, I'd just as soon as they gave it back to the
Gulf, turned it into a monster port, and ran some pipelines for the oil tankers.  Anyone with the financial wherewithall to rebuild is welcome
to do it, but I don't necessarily think the perceived "culture" is worth gazillions of tax dollars we don't have.  Wherever the sand lands, that
culture would continue to thrive (plus I can go to Bubba Gumps at the mall any time I want).

I understand, though, that just like all macro/micro arguments, its easy to sit 20 hours away and pass judgment vs. telling someone in person
they have to leave.

I think one issue with Cairo (why do many news agencies insist on pronouncing it KAY-ROW?), is that the farm land flooded has been designated
as a run-off relief area, so just as I know the risk when I build my garage over the service easement, the farmers knew this could always happen.

[Spaceman3750]

I don't suppose anyone has any suggestions to make up the loss of crops that would result in all of the farmers moving away from the river area? Food comes from somewhere... And a bunch of it comes from the area in question.

[Eclipse]

An excellent point, though as this is in theory like a 100-year flood, one could expect another generation before it happens again (Climate Change^® not withstanding).

[Senior]

Cairo is pronounced (KAY-ROW) in southern Missouri/Illinois.

[jimmydeanno]

I don't suppose anyone has any suggestions to make up the loss of crops that would result in all of the farmers moving away from the river area? Food comes from somewhere... And a bunch of it comes from the area in question.

The food that is being grown isn't going to have a significant impact on the world's food supply.  Instead of having three harvest seasons this year, they'll only get two.  The damage to the infrastructure is the most costly part, not the seed that is lost, or the food that isn't going to make it onto the world markets.

I'd be more concerned if I lived in Cuba, where the government just decided to start mixing dried peas back into the domestically sold coffee mix to alleviate the price, than I would about some sudden shortage of food world-wide.

[Eclipse]

Cairo is pronounced (KAY-ROW) in southern Missouri/Illinois.

While I don't doubt that for a minute, that must be some sort of local evolution designed, for some reason, to distance itself from Egypt.  This despite the fact that most urban legends hold that the area is referred to as "Little Egypt" specifically because of its similarity to the Nile Delta (floods and all).

[coudano]

i've seen men killed for less, in that area.

[SarDragon]

Cairo is pronounced (KAY-ROW) in southern Missouri/Illinois.

Indeed it is. I learned that pronunciation back in the '50s, so it isn't new. Yeah, this ain't Egypt. It's one of those peculiar regionalisms/Americanisms we endure. There are others from the Midwest I'll save for another time and thread.

[ol'fido]

Cairo is pronounced (KAY-ROW) in southern Missouri/Illinois.

Indeed it is. I learned that pronunciation back in the '50s, so it isn't new. Yeah, this ain't Egypt. It's one of those peculiar regionalisms/Americanisms we endure. There are others from the Midwest I'll save for another time and thread.

Yes, it is pronounced KAY-ROW down here and New Madrid is pronounced NEW MAD-RED and not like the capitol of Spain. We also have a town called El Dorado that is pronounced EL-DEAU-RAY-DEAU.

[arBar]

Cairo is pronounced (KAY-ROW) in southern Missouri/Illinois.

Indeed it is. I learned that pronunciation back in the '50s, so it isn't new. Yeah, this ain't Egypt. It's one of those peculiar regionalisms/Americanisms we endure. There are others from the Midwest I'll save for another time and thread.

Yes, it is pronounced KAY-ROW down here and New Madrid is pronounced NEW MAD-RED and not like the capitol of Spain. We also have a town called El Dorado that is pronounced EL-DEAU-RAY-DEAU.

And don't forget that Palestine, AR is pronounced pal uh STEEN.
And why is the o in Bollinger County pronounced as a U?
And what about Hayti?  I've always heard it as high tie, but someone the other day said it was like Haiti.

[SarDragon]

OK, since this is going to persist:

MON-roe Township, NJ (em-PHA-sis on the first syl-LAB-le)
char-LOTTE, MI

[coudano]

there's a town here called auxvasse.
you can imagine.

[Eclipse]

ol'fido sent me these with permission to post, my apologies for taking so long.

This is where most CAP people from ILWG stayed during the KY Icequake mission in 2009.
I specifically remember parking in that lot and using that back door.















For details on the pics, I'll have to look to Randy.

[ol'fido]

Photo 1- As Bob said is Harrah's Casino in Metropolis.

Photo 2- This is the Brookport, IL bridge from the KY side.

Photo 3- This is the same bridge from the Brookport, IL side.

This bridge was closed a couple of days after these photos because of high water on the KY side.

Photo 4- The Metropolis I-24 bridge on the IL side.

Photo 5-The I-24 bridge at midriver looking east.

Photo 6- The I-24 bridge from the KY side looking NNE.

Photo 7- The RR bridge at Metropolis from the IL side. About 1 mile west of the I=24 bridge.

[ol'fido]

Just heard on the news tonight the the Rt 45 bridge at Brookport reopened today. Also, most of the roads in my county are open as well. :clap:

[commando1]

We have not been officially activated but my unit has been down in Memphis filling/stacking sandbags to brace the seawall around the Memphis Pyramid. The Mississippi is forecasted to crest at 48 feet. Thats about 15-20 feet above flood stage. 

You couldn't get an unfunded corporate number to do it? My wing was doing just that in Evansville last week. Doing rogue ops like you are is not a smart thing to do. Posting it on the internet is even dumber.

Yeah cause just plain old "volunteering" outside of CAP is completly black ops...?

[Spaceman3750]

We have not been officially activated but my unit has been down in Memphis filling/stacking sandbags to brace the seawall around the Memphis Pyramid. The Mississippi is forecasted to crest at 48 feet. Thats about 15-20 feet above flood stage. 

You couldn't get an unfunded corporate number to do it? My wing was doing just that in Evansville last week. Doing rogue ops like you are is not a smart thing to do. Posting it on the internet is even dumber.

Yeah cause just plain old "volunteering" outside of CAP is completly black ops...?

It has a lot to do with insurance and proper management of CAP resources. It's one thing to march in a community parade or volunteer at the airshow - it's another thing entirely to be working on an incident without having a mission number open and an IC appointed to liase with the responsible agency. Even if it's just Podunk Township requesting support, they're supposed to call the NOC so that a number can be opened and the best available insurance coverage can be secured.

[davidsinn]

We have not been officially activated but my unit has been down in Memphis filling/stacking sandbags to brace the seawall around the Memphis Pyramid. The Mississippi is forecasted to crest at 48 feet. Thats about 15-20 feet above flood stage. 

You couldn't get an unfunded corporate number to do it? My wing was doing just that in Evansville last week. Doing rogue ops like you are is not a smart thing to do. Posting it on the internet is even dumber.

Yeah cause just plain old "volunteering" outside of CAP is completly black ops...?

If you do it as a unit...Yeah. If someone gets hurt on a non sanctioned mission there will be hell to pay and several people will become former members.

[Larry Mangum]

We have not been officially activated but my unit has been down in Memphis filling/stacking sandbags to brace the seawall around the Memphis Pyramid. The Mississippi is forecasted to crest at 48 feet. That's about 15-20 feet above flood stage. 

You couldn't get an unfunded corporate number to do it? My wing was doing just that in Evansville last week. Doing rogue ops like you are is not a smart thing to do. Posting it on the internet is even dumber.

Yeah cause just plain old "volunteering" outside of CAP is completely black ops...?

There is nothing wrong with volunteering outside of CAP as long as you did not wear a CAP uniform, utilize a corporate vehicle, or identify yourself as representing CAP while doing so. 

Now, there are several ways, that legally the unit could have responded as CAP:
1. Through an approved  Local MOU, that allowed the unit to provide support to local authorities.
2. Through a n approved State MOU that allows the wing to provide support to local and state authorities.
3. Through a Corporate Mission Number.
4. Thorough an AFAM Mission.

I know it can be frustrating when you are part of a local unit and stuff hits the fan. But one must remember that we like all federal and government resources (even local), participate under the rules and guidelines of NIMS.  As such we stand up and provide only requested resources, period. We do not self-deploy, not run our own operations outside of the ICS structure that is in play.  If we do so, we risk being labeled as a non team player and as a resource not to be utilized.  CAP, has done that too many times in the past, and that alone is one of the primary reasons, many of the states are reluctant to use us.

Anyway that is my 2 cents worth.

[Eclipse]

#1 & #2 still require at least wing approval.  ES = ES, MOU or not you need a mission #.

[Larry Mangum]

Absolutely you do, but a MOU outlines the steps required to get that mission number and who is paying for what as well as what you are allowed to do.

[RiverAux]

No real need for 1 and 2 anymore.  Every mission request is going through the NOC anyway and they're just fine with doing all sorts of missions without an MOU. 

[Larry Mangum]

No real need for 1 and 2 anymore.  Every mission request is going through the NOC anyway and they're just fine with doing all sorts of missions without an MOU.

That is only partially true. MOU's are still necessary in many cases.

[RiverAux]

Well, you have to have a MOU with your state emergency management agency to do anything at all, but beyond that they aren't really needed or apparently encouraged unless it is going to be an ongoing mission.  One-shot disaster-type missions don't really need them.   I know a few non-emergency operations that went on for several months where they wanted an MOU, but I can't think of a single disaster or SAR mission request from a local agency or agency other than the state emergency mgt agency that we've handled in years that required a separate MOU. 

Of course, other agencies may want an MOU for their own reasons before doing anything with CAP even though in those situations we may not need one for our own purposes.