Black BDU's

[GroundHawg]

I would love to switch back to OD's. Maybe even the TruSpec TRU in OD...

[RVT]

I am honestly surprised that the grey-only zealots haven't pushed for grey BDU's.



However, I have heard of wearing grey BDU trousers with the grey/whites...which I don't think is a bad thing necessarily.

I think you just hit on the answer, actually.  Aviator shirt, polo shirt and Grey BDU top all worn with the same pants.  Greatly simplifies the corporate uniformand  puts everybody in one shade of grey.

[SarDragon]

OK on the last two, but if the aviator shirt is the equivalent of the SS blue shirt AF uniform, then that combo needs dress trousers.

[RVT]

OK on the last two, but if the aviator shirt is the equivalent of the SS blue shirt AF uniform, then that combo needs dress trousers.

I agree with you, but it would at least prevent this:



This is a region staff college graduation picture.  If they can't agree on one shade of grey its not going to happen anywhere.  Unrelated not - I found it interesting that only about a half dozen members out of 40  in this picture are wearing AF blue.

[SarDragon]

The shade of grey is easy - define it to be the same color as the grade sleeves. You won't get a 100% match, but it would narrow the variation significantly.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The shade of grey is easy - define it to be the same color as the grade sleeves. You won't get a 100% match, but it would narrow the variation significantly.

Except that there are differing shades (I don't really consider grey to be a "colour" per se) of grade sleeves, depending on who made them, where they were purchased, and how old/clean/dirty the epaulet sleeves are, not to mention that different people have different colour perception.

The only way you're going to get what you're talking about is probably, and I hate to say this, to make Vanguard the exclusive vendor of grey trousers the way they are for almost everything else.

The G/W doesn't really have a dress-uniform function, unless you count the bloody awful "blazer" option, so until National approves a grey dress uniform blouse and cap (and pigs might fly outta my...), I don't see a problem with wearing grey BDU's...they're at least military-type cut.

Something like this could be adopted (the law-enforcement model), but I see the "corporatists" saying "too military" and NHQ saying "it'll offend the Air Force:"



Those are dark-grey with a light-grey stripe, before any anti-blue zealots start having a cow (thanks to Bart Simpson).

jimmydeanno, I respectfully posit that the more corporatist CAP has become, the further away from our USAAC/USAAF/USAF roots we've become, and further towards a "flying ES only" operation we have become.

RVT, I think the high percentage of G/W wearers in that photo are a result of several different factors:

• It's easy (no grooming/weight standards)
• It's relatively cheap
• No real "standard" other than a white shirt and grey pants, very little to potentially get gigged on
• No need to observe customs/courtesies (possibly one "reason" NHQ killed the CSU)

[arajca]

There are standard shades of grey fabric that can be adopted. Heather and charcoal grey are a couple of examples. I've gotten heather grey from a couple of different vendors and the only difference in color was the wear areas (one was new, one was worn out - hence the replacement).

[Spaceman3750]

I don't want to see the gray standardized. Why? Because it prevents me from purchasing pants that fit me comfortably (I'm not a small person - I can't throw on any old pair of pants and be comfortable) (gotta order everything through VG if we standardize) and I have to put up with whatever crap VG decides to sell us (which is sometimes good quality - but sometimes not too).

[SarDragon]

I get my grey trousers from Sears, and mail order through Haband. Each has a shade of grey that's "pretty close". The Haband sizes go into the "Omar" range.

Yes, there is variation in the grade sleeve color. That's just different dye lots. But there's still enough consistency that the differences don't stick out like the ten different colors of grey in the pic.

I see a lot of negativism on this issue - this won't work, that's a bad idea, etc. If we put as much energy into trying to make things work, instead of shooting things down, there might actually be some solutions out there.

[sab163]

What about something like this?

[RVT]

RVT, I think the high percentage of G/W wearers in that photo are a result of several different factors:

• It's easy (no grooming/weight standards)
• It's relatively cheap
• No real "standard" other than a white shirt and grey pants, very little to potentially get gigged on
• No need to observe customs/courtesies (possibly one "reason" NHQ killed the CSU)

And I am usually in grey /white for - well ALL of those reasons.  The grey/white is cheap I can show you where to get the shirt and pants both for less than a vanguard polo.  In fact now that I have found where to get the California GT uniform complete for about $33 I'm going to stop complaining about that too, except for the rules regarding changing into and out of the thing.

[RVT]

There are standard shades of grey fabric that can be adopted. Heather and charcoal grey are a couple of examples. I've gotten heather grey from a couple of different vendors and the only difference in color was the wear areas (one was new, one was worn out - hence the replacement).

I was looking for the shade scale in 39-1 to make a comment - and I noticed that the shades of grey are significantly different on the same page of the actual 39-1 so I'll give up now.

[SarDragon]

And which page is that, please?

[RVT]

And which page is that, please?

75

Look at the left two pictures.

[SarDragon]

And which page is that, please?

75

Look at the left two pictures.

Since one pic was taken inside, and the other outside, I will attribute most, if not all, of the difference to lighting variations. And what difference there might be is not significant, and could be attributable to dye lot differences.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And I am usually in grey /white for - well ALL of those reasons.

Point taken.

I wouldn't mind that order of dress if it weren't so colourless and non-aviation looking

If, for example a blue, civilian airline-pilot type shirt were allowed, imagine how much better it would look (insignia would stay as is).



But of course someone would pass a cinder block just because it's blue...

[RADIOMAN015]

I can't see a single reason to move from the blue, 1/3- 1/2 of the members already have it, its distinctive and looks sharp
what properly cared for.

Our best bet would be to put everyone in that uniform for field work, including cadets.

I agree with you on this one Eclipse .  The organization needs a single utility uniform that has us stand out as CIVIL AIR PATROL, not to be confused with others (including military and swat teams).  This includes patches such as the ES emergency Dog.  Also when we wear safety vests we should have our older seal (CAP circle triangle ) on it.  The seal should be sold separately so the member can sew it on their vests they by locally.

I'd say away from any light colored utility uniform due to the nature of "utility" meaning work and dirt.  I would also like to see an option for a utility blue TShirt with logo or CAP name (like the current golf shirt choices) with use with the current blue BDU pants (perhaps even allow the golf shirts with the Blue BDU pants).
RM   

[RVT]

(perhaps even allow the golf shirts with the Blue BDU pants).
RM   

I have actually suggested this.  It gives us an equivalent to the Coast Guard Ops Polo uniform - which is by far my personal favorite.

[kd8gua]

Granted this has nothing to do with Black BDUs, it does deal with the ever over reaching debate on gray pants. During my time in the OSU Marching Band, we had to maintain three different uniforms: the military-style uniform worn at parades, games, and concerts, a blazer uniform worn for pep rallies and travel, and a "grays" uniform, which is basically a variant of military PT style clothing in which we wore the visor style cap from the full uniform. The blazer uniform consisted of a black blazer with a band logo patch on it, white dress shirt, red marching band tie, and gray pants. Yes, gray pants. We were given one directive: heather gray dress pants. Lo and behold, in the 250 people wearing this uniform, maybe 10 or so really stick out as the wrong color. Most of the pants wound up being relatively close in color, granted the cut was, well... precarious. Since the only directive was dress pants, it mattered not the style. Straight legs, pleated fronts, flat fronts, even flared leg styles for females. They didn't look uniform, but the color, for what it's worth, was. This is much better odds than seeing 40 seniors in the image above wearing 40 different styles of gray.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^Some of the grey trousers in the photo are a very light grey, like West Point or "Confederate" grey, while others in the photo look almost black.