New Command Patch

[capchiro]

I just received a notice from National about a new Command Patch and I am concerned.  Any reference to the Air Force or Air Force Auxillary are gone.  Do we really want to distance ourselves from the mother force this much?  I am a little leery of the course that National is taking us at this moment.  It seems like a lot of this stuff started with the Iowa reorganization.  Way too many changes this last 6 months for me.  The Wing Banking Solution was just an indication of things to come from Corporate.  One squadron commander was relieved of command for being 6 days late on transferring squadron funds to Wing.  He was later re-instated, but.. Letters from above telling squadron commanders to 2b or transfer to ghost squadrons any senior that hadn't passed the OPSEC by the end of November.  This isn't your Father's CAP anymore.  As usual, JMHLO

[A.Member]

Do a search and you'll find plenty of discussion on the topic.   Kind of old news.  Long story short:  virtually everyone shares your view that the CP change is not a welcome one.

[Psicorp]

It was my understanding that the new MajCom patch is to be worn on the Corporate style uniforms (blue field and blue flightsuit) but that the original (AFAux) MajCom patch could still be worn on the AF style uniforms.  Is this not correct?     

[JohnKachenmeister]

Your understanding is not correct.  The new CP will completely replace the old CP.  On all uniforms, aircraft, and vehicles.

In fact, speaking about the former patch will get you a midnight visit from the Black CAP Van.  They haul you out of your house in your robe, and you "Disappear."

The next time anyone sees you, you will be speaking very slowly and in very simple sentences.  You will also be wearing a double-breasted uniform.

But you didn't hear this from me.

[Psicorp]

Your understanding is not correct.  The new CP will completely replace the old CP.  On all uniforms, aircraft, and vehicles.

Ack!  Lord bless thee thine holy Velcro company, which alloweth the Civil Air Patrol to ripeth thy sacred patch from our breast without damage to our uniform...in thy mercy.

In fact, speaking about the former patch will get you a midnight visit from the Black CAP Van.  They haul you out of your house in your robe, and you "Disappear."

The next time anyone sees you, you will be speaking very slowly and in very simple sentences.  You will also be wearing a double-breasted uniform.

But you didn't hear this from me.

No chance of getting MajGen Penida to intervene on my behalf, hmm? 

[Chris Jacobs]

Does any one know when we can start wearing the patch and where we can get it.  I need to get a new command patch but no reason to by the old style one when the new one is going to be required before summer.

[Becks]

Your understanding is not correct.  The new CP will completely replace the old CP.  On all uniforms, aircraft, and vehicles.

In fact, speaking about the former patch will get you a midnight visit from the Black CAP Van.  They haul you out of your house in your robe, and you "Disappear."

The next time anyone sees you, you will be speaking very slowly and in very simple sentences.  You will also be wearing a double-breasted uniform.

But you didn't hear this from me.

Better get those tinfoil hats back on...


anyways capchiro, here's the original thread:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=974.0

[JohnKachenmeister]

Does any one know when we can start wearing the patch and where we can get it.  I need to get a new command patch but no reason to by the old style one when the new one is going to be required before summer.

The answer to the second part of your question is "Vanguard."  I don't know when the effective date of the new patch is yet, nor do I know the "wear-out date" of the old patch.

I'll put the old one on my motorcycle leathers.

[Chris Jacobs]

The only command patch that vanguard appears to have is the old one.

[Pylon]

I still haven't seen any policy letter authorizing this, including on the National website.  Anybody have info that I've missed?

[Becks]

From what I can tell it is not authorized for wear with the AF greenbag.  See picture below taken from recent change to 39-1.



The full memo is attached to this message below.

[A.Member]

From what I can tell it is not authorized for wear with the AF greenbag.  See picture below taken from recent change to 39-1.



The full memo is attached to this message below.

So, who exactly is the "Uniform Board" and how is our displeasure with the change conveyed to them?  I imagine there is a CoC but what does that chain look like and who is at the end of it? 

As far as I'm concerned, they can cease with their pursuit of changing the patch on the AF-style flightsuit.

[Psicorp]

From what I can tell it is not authorized for wear with the AF greenbag.  See picture below taken from recent change to 39-1.



The full memo is attached to this message below.

So, who exactly is the "Uniform Board" and how is our displeasure with the change confeyed to them?  I imagine there is a CoC but what does that chain look like and who is at the end of it? 

As far as I'm concerned, they can cease with their pursuit of changing the patch on the AF-style flightsuit.

Oooo....Membership petition drive??

"We the undersigned, members of the Civil Air Patrol, who have spent the equivelant of the Gross Domestic Product of several small European countries in membership dues, uniforms, and uniform accessories, do hereby petition the Uniform Board of the National Executive Committee to authorize the permanent wear of the U.S. Air Force Auxilliary version of the Command Patch on the Air Force style flight suit and jacket."   or some such.

[A.Member]

Oooo....Membership petition drive??

"We the undersigned, members of the Civil Air Patrol, who have spent the equivelant of the Gross Domestic Product of several small European countries in membership dues, uniforms, and uniform accessories, do hereby petition the Uniform Board of the National Executive Committee to authorize the permanent wear of the U.S. Air Force Auxilliary version of the Command Patch on the Air Force style flight suit and jacket."   or some such.

   ...not bad.   

[Hawk200]

Oooo....Membership petition drive??

"We the undersigned, members of the Civil Air Patrol, who have spent the equivelant of the Gross Domestic Product of several small European countries in membership dues, uniforms, and uniform accessories, do hereby petition the Uniform Board of the National Executive Committee to authorize the permanent wear of the U.S. Air Force Auxilliary version of the Command Patch on the Air Force style flight suit and jacket."   or some such.

Too bad the "Applause" icon is gone, this would certainly be deserving.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Did you see the photo of the cap?  Whoever measured 1/2 inch from the brim for that picture was drunk.

The reinforced sweatband on mine is just over 3/4 inch wide, so the bottom of the insignia should be about 2/3 of the way up the sweatband.  The result is the insignia is almost, but not quite, centered between the brim and the crown.

[lordmonar]

So, who exactly is the "Uniform Board" and how is our displeasure with the change conveyed to them?  I imagine there is a CoC but what does that chain look like and who is at the end of it? 

As far as I'm concerned, they can cease with their pursuit of changing the patch on the AF-style flightsuit.

The uniform board is the NEC/NB.  You can communicate your thoughts and idea up your chain of command just like 39-1 says to.

[A.Member]

The uniform board is the NEC/NB.  You can communicate your thoughts and idea up your chain of command just like 39-1 says to.

Is it the entire NEC/NB or a subset of people?  If it's the entire NEC/NB, then they shouldn't refer to a "Uniform Board" (such as the AF has).  They should just say NEC/NB.  I was always under the impression that there was some sort of board but didn't know anything about it.  Anyway...

I guess those of us that are of like minds should start submitting our Staff Study Reports in opposition to the change (this is the correct way to formalize the issue).  Since the NEC/NB doesn't solicit feedback prior to instituting changes (unlike the AF), it'd be nice to inundate them with such letters in this case.  They're easy to write - see pages 199 - 206 of Tongue and Quill, if needed.

Maybe if I'm ambitious enough over the next few days, I could post a copy of a completed report on this issue that others could also use...

[arajca]

Actually, the folks who come up with uniform ideas are the Development Committee. They submit their graniose plans ideas to the NEC/NB for approval.

As for who is on the Development Committee, I don't know.

[Psicorp]

So, who exactly is the "Uniform Board" and how is our displeasure with the change conveyed to them?  I imagine there is a CoC but what does that chain look like and who is at the end of it? 

As far as I'm concerned, they can cease with their pursuit of changing the patch on the AF-style flightsuit.

The uniform board is the NEC/NB.  You can communicate your thoughts and idea up your chain of command just like 39-1 says to.

All hope isn't lost though...the Air Force could say, "umm...no, we like it the way it is, it stays."  At which point my original assumption would most likely become true...one patch for the Corporate and one for the Air Force style.  I'm resigned to the fact that the Command Patch without U.S. Air Force Auxilliary is here to stay, given the changes in aircraft and vehicle markings.

[JohnKachenmeister]

One thing to think about:

IF the original US Air Force Aux. MAJCOM patch had never happened, and we had replaced the old round seal with the new MAJCOM patch in the first place, would anybody be crying?

It isn't the patch.  Its the direction that CAP looks like its headed that we don't like.  The patch is just the visible manifestation of the disease.

[ELTHunter]

Looks like they could have just gone with the Overseas CAP Emblem, it says the same thing, just a different shape, and they would not have had to create another patch after all.  Go figure.

[ELTHunter]

One thing to think about:

IF the original US Air Force Aux. MAJCOM patch had never happened, and we had replaced the old round seal with the new MAJCOM patch in the first place, would anybody be crying?

It isn't the patch.  Its the direction that CAP looks like its headed that we don't like.  The patch is just the visible manifestation of the disease.

Agreed!

[lordmonar]

One thing to think about:

IF the original US Air Force Aux. MAJCOM patch had never happened, and we had replaced the old round seal with the new MAJCOM patch in the first place, would anybody be crying?

It isn't the patch.  Its the direction that CAP looks like its headed that we don't like.  The patch is just the visible manifestation of the disease.

You know John I keep hearing that from the doom and gloomers and I have debated this issue....I just don't see us moving anywhere.

I know the fear you have...but have ever said no to an USAF mission?  Have we ever said...no we would rather work with these guys over hear instead of the USAF?

No....we have made some mostly cosmetic changes that MAY...I say again MAY...allow us to do some more LE type missions.

We have a single wing that is greatly increasing its affiliation with the local national guard but are they turning away USAF missions?

Again...no.

Like DNall keeps saying congress made us the USAF-AUX.  We will continue to be the USAF-AUX no matter what our patches, aircraft or vehicles say.  AND we will always be the Civil Air Patrol.

[RiverAux]

No....we have made some mostly cosmetic changes that MAY...I say again MAY...allow us to do some more LE type missions.

And that was prompted by a change the AF made to its own regulations that doesn't make any sense in the first place and wasn't something we dreamed up on our own.

[lordmonar]

No....we have made some mostly cosmetic changes that MAY...I say again MAY...allow us to do some more LE type missions.

And that was prompted by a change the AF made to its own regulations that doesn't make any sense in the first place and wasn't something we dreamed up on our own.

Ergo I go back to my fall back position....It seems to me that it is the USAF that has been pushing us away for years!  The maroon shoulder marks, the gray shoulder marks, their refusal to approve Gortex.  They were the ones who unilaterally cut our budget with out even a "sorry guys...but we got to buy airplanes".  It was because of lobbying on our part we were able to get congress to fully fund us.

[RiverAux]

their refusal to approve Gortex

When did they refuse an official request from CAP to wear this item?  I'm not saying that they didn't, just that I'm not aware of it. 

I don't feel that the AF itself has been pushing us away.  Most of our "problems" with the AF seem to have their basis in the AF legal department rather than any real agenda on the part of the AF as a whole.  I'll eat a new Command Patch if it wasn't the lawyers who insisted on the change to the AF regulation that led to the new command patch and related changes to CAP procedures. 

[A.Member]

It isn't the patch.  Its the direction that CAP looks like its headed that we don't like.  The patch is just the visible manifestation of the disease.

That's exactly right - without question.  What did the old patch say on it? (rhetorical) 

No one complained when the change from the "seal" to a "command patch" was made because it was perceived as a logical step.  The latest change is not perceived that way at all.  It's quite the opposite actually - or at least there is enough substantial debate about it to warrant much further scrutiny.

But it's not really about a patch per se (none of it is..or should be anyway).  It's about what it stands for and what we as an organization stand for and the direction we appear to be headed.  I could be wrong but everyone I talk to (and that's quite a few people) view these changes (removal of USAF Aux. from aircraft, patches, etc.) in a strongly negative way.  This really needs to communicated up the chain.

[A.Member]

The maroon shoulder marks, the gray shoulder marks...

In all fairness, we (CAP) brought these upon ourselves (primarily the result of some inept leadership and one CAP/CC inparticular).

[Psicorp]

One thing to think about:

IF the original US Air Force Aux. MAJCOM patch had never happened, and we had replaced the old round seal with the new MAJCOM patch in the first place, would anybody be crying?

It isn't the patch.  Its the direction that CAP looks like its headed that we don't like.  The patch is just the visible manifestation of the disease.

You know John I keep hearing that from the doom and gloomers and I have debated this issue....I just don't see us moving anywhere.

That's more the problem I see than anything else...all these changes and we're NOT moving anywhere.  We're not even circling the wagons.   

[A.Member]

You know John I keep hearing that from the doom and gloomers and I have debated this issue....I just don't see us moving anywhere.

That's more the problem I see than anything else...all these changes and we're NOT moving anywhere.  We're not even circling the wagons.   

Thus my suggestion in post #17 in this thread.