Uniform for promotion

Started by Smokey, December 21, 2006, 06:03:23 PM

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Smokey

I've been invited to a promotion ceremony at an Air Force base next month.  A Col that I deal with on a regular basis is pinning on a star.  I haven't gotten a formal printed invite but was told by phone.

Question is...what uniform to wear.  I've heard that  "uniform of the day" is proper which at that base is a flight suit or BDU. However.....the ceremony is at the O' club and not sure if flight suit would be appropriate.  It's an afternoon event. Promtion to the general ranks I think is a bit more of a big deal and formal than say maj to lt col.

Any ideas folks...after all I am respresenting CAP and want to make a proper impresssion.  I do not want to stand out though.

Help!
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.

Pylon

Quote from: Smokey on December 21, 2006, 06:03:23 PM
I've been invited to a promotion ceremony at an Air Force base next month.  A Col that I deal with on a regular basis is pinning on a star.  I haven't gotten a formal printed invite but was told by phone.

Question is...what uniform to wear.  I've heard that  "uniform of the day" is proper which at that base is a flight suit or BDU. However.....the ceremony is at the O' club and not sure if flight suit would be appropriate.  It's an afternoon event. Promtion to the general ranks I think is a bit more of a big deal and formal than say maj to lt col.

Any ideas folks...after all I am respresenting CAP and want to make a proper impresssion.  I do not want to stand out though.

Help!

The one rule that always seems to work is:  Never out-dress the General.

Find out from the base Public Affairs Officer, the Colonel's secretary, or whomever is coordinating the event what the official UOD is for the ceremony.  That should give you the best clue.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

Hawk200

I'd wear service dress, with short sleeves on underneath. If everybody else happens to be in something lesser, you can always drop the coat and tie. Short sleeve blues isn't nearly as glaring as full service dress in a crowd of cammies and zoom bags.

mikeylikey

The paper invite would have had more details, since you didn't get one you need to call the CAP rep at the base.  Each AF base has an officer assigned (usually additional duty) to work with CAP.  If no help there, call the adjutant or stop by their office.  Enjoy the party!
What's up monkeys?

shorning

Don't wear service dress.  You'll be overdressed.  UOD is normally flightsuit or BDU and that's exactly what you'll see most poeple in the audience wearing.  Even at the O-club. 

However, as a CAP member, I'd recommend wearing a service uniform.  Short-sleeve blue shirt, no tie, flight cap, no ribbons, wings (if applicable) and one badge is the look I'd go for.  If you do it "right" they won't give you a second though.  Do it "wrong" and you'll have them wondering, "who is this bozo?"

YMMV...

DNall

Quote from: shorning on December 21, 2006, 08:58:37 PM
Don't wear service dress.  You'll be overdressed.  UOD is normally flightsuit or BDU and that's exactly what you'll see most poeple in the audience wearing.  Even at the O-club. 

However, as a CAP member, I'd recommend wearing a service uniform.  Short-sleeve blue shirt, no tie, flight cap, no ribbons, wings (if applicable) and one badge is the look I'd go for.  If you do it "right" they won't give you a second though.  Do it "wrong" and you'll have them wondering, "who is this bozo?"
That's pretty good advice all around. Most of these things are just 10 min of people walking over from the office in standard work attire, but there may be some other reason they're making it more formal. Call ahead to confirm, then do your best to blend in (which is why blues instead of BDUs w/ the glow in the dark blue on them). They'll notice the differences in your uniform right off, but wearing to their standards is going to make them more comfortable w/ you.

Camas

#6
Quote from: PylonNever out-dress the General

Or never out-dress the commander.  A very good piece of advise.

I had the privilege of attending a squadron change-of-command ceremony recently and I was aware of the fact that the squadron commander doesn't own or wear a service dress coat even though the uniform of the evening was blues.  I didn't want to "show him up" so I elected to simply wear a blazer uniform instead.  I think I made the right choice.  The last thing a squadron commander needs is for some wingding to walk in with service dress uniform with all the bells and whistles and show everybody up.  Not cool unless others are wearing the same thing.  Just my thoughts!

lordmonar

Call the base protocol office.  They will tell you what the dress is for the event.

If it is UOD...that means blues for CAP unless you were in the field or flying that day.

I would go with short sleeve/long sleeve with our with out tie depending on how you feel.

The general/Col will be in service dress most likely...so you don't have to worry about out dressing him.

If you were invited as a special guest or part of the official party....again check with protocol to see what uniform they want you in.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

DNall

Quote from: Camas on December 22, 2006, 02:27:02 AM
Quote from: PylonNever out-dress the General

Or never out-dress the commander.  A very good piece of advise.

I had the privilege of attending a squadron change-of-command ceremony recently and I was aware of the fact that the squadron commander doesn't own or wear a service dress coat even though the uniform of the evening was blues.  I didn't want to "show him up" so I elected to simply wear a blazer uniform instead.  I think I made the right choice.  The last thing a squadron commander needs is for some wingding to walk in with service dress uniform with all the bells and whistles and show everybody up.  Not cool unless others are wearing the same thing.  Just my thoughts!
It works the other way top to bottom. If you're representing Wg (even unoffically) then there's some extra legitimacy lent to the ceremony by looking like the symbol of the source of power handing down command to this local officer. A little flash is a good thing now & then.

Camas

Quote from: DNallIf you're representing Wg (even unoffically) then there's some extra legitimacy lent to the ceremony by looking like the symbol of the source of power handing down command to this local officer. A little flash is a good thing now & then.
Good point.  This was my former squadron so I felt - maybe not!  But yes, it would suggest that if I wore my service dress I'd make an effort to dress up and make an effort to put on a good example for others.  I'd have to reconsider my previous position.  Thanks for the input.

JohnKachenmeister

If UOD, your safest bet is the blues, no jacket, tie optional.  Ditch the ribbons, too, unless you areally ARE a war hero.  I agree with Shorning on this.  If it is an "after duty" reception, you will fit in, even if dressed like the office wonks.  Wearing a flight suit might be viewed as pretentious, unless you really did have to fly there.  I wouldn't wear BDU's since our BDU's are ugly with all that blue stuff on them.
Another former CAP officer

DNall

Quote from: Camas on December 22, 2006, 04:48:54 PM
Quote from: DNallIf you're representing Wg (even unoffically) then there's some extra legitimacy lent to the ceremony by looking like the symbol of the source of power handing down command to this local officer. A little flash is a good thing now & then.
Good point.  This was my former squadron so I felt - maybe not!  But yes, it would suggest that if I wore my service dress I'd make an effort to dress up and make an effort to put on a good example for others.  I'd have to reconsider my previous position.  Thanks for the input.
Just a dif POV, both are equally valid.

AlaskanCFI

There are times when the Air Force really over-does the flight-suit stuff.

A year ago there was a WWII Alaska Scout being awarded a medal by the Big Cheese of the Alaska National Guard,,, who happens to be an Air-Guard General this season. 

Everyone else showed up in nice suits & ties, the Army and Navy guys came in class A service uniforms. (Jackets, ties, Ribbons).

So here comes our Air Force vet, "now a full time Air Guard General" at the last minute in his baggy flight suit.    On TV for crying out loud.

Talk about embarrassing.



xx
Major, Squadron Commander Stan-Eval..Instructor Pilot- Alaska Wing CAP
Retired Alaska Air Guard
Retired State of Alaska Law Dawg, Retired Vol Firefighter and EMT
Ex-Navy, Ex-Army,
Firearms Instructor
Alaskan Tailwheel and Floatplane CFI
http://www.floatplanealaska.com

lordmonar

Quote from: AlaskanCFI on December 25, 2006, 06:35:45 PM
There are times when the Air Force really over-does the flight-suit stuff.

A year ago there was a WWII Alaska Scout being awarded a medal by the Big Cheese of the Alaska National Guard,,, who happens to be an Air-Guard General this season. 

Everyone else showed up in nice suits & ties, the Army and Navy guys came in class A service uniforms. (Jackets, ties, Ribbons).

So here comes our Air Force vet, "now a full time Air Guard General" at the last minute in his baggy flight suit.    On TV for crying out loud.

Talk about embarrassing.
xx

Embarrassing for who?  Was the uniform of the event specified?  Was it UOD?  Flight Suits are UOD for fliers.  If you were embarrased it was the fault of protocol not the officer in question.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

RiverAux

Actually, you should probably have your State Director call the base up and ask about the uniform.  In my experience they get very bent out of shape if someone from CAP is talking to someone in the military without having gone through them first. 

mikeylikey

Quote from: RiverAux on December 25, 2006, 07:15:13 PM
Actually, you should probably have your State Director call the base up and ask about the uniform.  In my experience they get very bent out of shape if someone from CAP is talking to someone in the military without having gone through them first. 

Why?  I rarely speak (or see) my State Director, and am in contact with military officers and NCO's all the time.  If your SD is throwing a fit becuase you are not going through him or her, well thats a shame that they think they are so important.  Let me ask you what the last BIG thing your SD did for your Wing other than sign an Authorization.  In my experiance with numerous SD's they are sitting pretty collecting more money than they should be and wasting our tax dollars.  That is one area that the AF should re-evaluate.  Open it up to a lower GS grade and make the requirements to hold that position easier to fit, say get rid of the pilot requirement.

I guess this is a totaly different discussion, sorry!
What's up monkeys?

lordmonar

Quote from: RiverAux on December 25, 2006, 07:15:13 PM
Actually, you should probably have your State Director call the base up and ask about the uniform.  In my experience they get very bent out of shape if someone from CAP is talking to someone in the military without having gone through them first. 

Not to ask what uniform you need to wear to a promotion ceremony.  Talking to the base for support of some kind....then you should go through you SD or LO.  But calling up protocol or an officer's office to confirm the uniform of the day for a ceremony that you have been invited to.  Don't waist your SD's time.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

RiverAux

Why should you go through the State Director?  Well, for one thing CAPR 10-1 prohibits CAP members from corresponding directly with any military activity except HQ CAP-USAF and CAP-USAF wing & state directors (the reg still has the old terms for them) unless otherwise specifically authorized by CAP regulations & manuals.


DNall

We have an absolutely outstanding State Director (LO) here that I'd happily stack against any other out there. In my experience, if you're Sq is actually on the base then within reason you can work with them on any local support issues. It's when you need a formal request for military support (involves money having to be accounted for) that you need to talk to the SD. It's nice to keep him posted though & go to him with questions, generally though, even for the bigger stuff he'd delegate to you locally to work it on the basis of the relationships you've developed & he's encouraged you to keep strong.

If they're flipping out about people talking to the military it's cause there's problems elsewhere with people abusing it. I'd hope it's never the case that it's ego, and if it is you need a new state director.

AlphaSigOU

Quote from: DNall on December 26, 2006, 01:27:43 AM
We have an absolutely outstanding State Director (LO) here that I'd happily stack against any other out there.

Hooray for Col. Brown!  ;D
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

lordmonar

Quote from: RiverAux on December 26, 2006, 01:21:59 AM
Why should you go through the State Director?  Well, for one thing CAPR 10-1 prohibits CAP members from corresponding directly with any military activity except HQ CAP-USAF and CAP-USAF wing & state directors (the reg still has the old terms for them) unless otherwise specifically authorized by CAP regulations & manuals.

We are talking about a guy who was called by his Friend who said....hey can you come to my promotion ceremony.

If you want to carry CAPR 10-1 to these sort of limits...you must not talk to me because I am active duty any you cannot correspond directly with me!    :)

I understand CAPR 10-1 and I like it.  But it was not written for this situation.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

RiverAux

QuoteIn my experience, if you're Sq is actually on the base then within reason you can work with them on any local support issues.

Yes, I would agree and I would assume that if this were the case arrangements would have been made for appropriate contacts between CAP and the base to cover basic housekeeping details.  

Hmmm, a state director that wants CAP members to follow CAP regulations.  Yeah, he is on a real ego trip and obviously thinks he is way more important than he actually is.  

All I did was point out a basic fact of CAP protocol and you guys made quite a few leaps in your own assumptions.  

DNall

regulations & real life, don't confuse the two. latitude exists between there & your state director would define the limits of that latitude. If he's defining those limits as so restrictive as to be impractical, then that's bad. He should be encouraging local contacts, and discouraging cold calling the TAG's office to get more BDUs for your Sq across the state.

Major_Chuck

My recommendation on the uniform is blue service dress if you are able, tone down the CAP 'bling' so to speak.  (Some of us look like George Patton Wannabee's with all of our various ribbons and badges).

If you're prior service wear all your military ribbons and badges, maybe a CAP specialty badge or wings if authorized.

If you're not prior service wear a specialty badge and or wings and maybe your top six ribbons.

Remember that your ribbon rack is viewed like a resume' of who you are and what you've done.  You don't want to have to explain that you received a ribbon for recruiting seven people and another ribbon for passing a Chuck Yeager Aerospace Education test.  Wear the stuff that took a little effort to earn, not the silly ones you get for being a member for six months.

You want to blend in and be part of the group.  Not stand out like a sore thumb.
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

Major_Chuck

Quote from: DNall on December 26, 2006, 02:57:33 AM
regulations & real life, don't confuse the two. latitude exists between there & your state director would define the limits of that latitude. If he's defining those limits as so restrictive as to be impractical, then that's bad. He should be encouraging local contacts, and discouraging cold calling the TAG's office to get more BDUs for your Sq across the state.

I used the State Director to okay my communicating directly with CAP-USAF and ACC/SE.  He thought it was a great idea.  NHQ signed off on it as well when I explained what I was trying to do. 

If you've already established contacts on the base it is kind of a moot point at this point to go back and start asking your State Director for permission.  You might copy him on your communications.  That of course is up to you and whatever relationship you have with him or her.
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

lordmonar

Quote from: CAP Safety Dude on December 27, 2006, 12:52:31 AMIf you're not prior service wear a specialty badge and or wings and maybe your top six ribbons.

Except this is not one of the options in 39-1.

Quote from: CAP Safety Dude on December 27, 2006, 12:52:31 AMRemember that your ribbon rack is viewed like a resume' of who you are and what you've done.  You don't want to have to explain that you received a ribbon for recruiting seven people and another ribbon for passing a Chuck Yeager Aerospace Education test.  Wear the stuff that took a little effort to earn, not the silly ones you get for being a member for six months.

Why not?  Everything you do in cap takes some effort and about 90% of the USAF ribbons take "no effort" to earn.

Longevity, oversea tour, training ribbon, good conduct, marksman, PME, National Defense Service, AF outstanding unit, campaign medals, and most of the "point" medals are earned for just doing your job and staying out of trouble.

I am active duty and here is what I say to every CAP member cadet or senior.  Be proud of your bling.   Don't worry that look like Patton, because you earned them!  If someone asks about your ribbons explain them, don't try to make them sound like you saved the world just be factual and up front.

Quote from: CAP Safety Dude on December 27, 2006, 12:52:31 AMYou want to blend in and be part of the group.  Not stand out like a sore thumb.

Well someone needs to tell USAF-CAP that!  If they wanted us to blend they would let us wear hard rank and blue shoulder marks!
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

JohnKachenmeister

Why would 39-1 prohibit the wearing of ribbons and specialty badges?  I suggested that the member wear the blue uniform without the service coat, and wear badges but not ribbons.  I'm not aware that 39-1 prohibits that.
Another former CAP officer

lordmonar

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 27, 2006, 03:34:24 AM
Why would 39-1 prohibit the wearing of ribbons and specialty badges?  I suggested that the member wear the blue uniform without the service coat, and wear badges but not ribbons.  I'm not aware that 39-1 prohibits that.

The all, some, or none option is the one I am talking about.  Wither wear them all or don't. 
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

lordmonar

Quote from: lordmonar on December 27, 2006, 03:38:10 AM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 27, 2006, 03:34:24 AM
Why would 39-1 prohibit the wearing of ribbons and specialty badges?  I suggested that the member wear the blue uniform without the service coat, and wear badges but not ribbons.  I'm not aware that 39-1 prohibits that.

The all, some, or none option is the one I am talking about.  Wither wear them all or don't. 

Opps...should have check my references.....39-1 does allow all, some, or none.  My bad.

Anyway....I don't like the some option but that is a discussion for another thread.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Hawk200

Quote from: lordmonar on December 27, 2006, 01:01:33 AM
Everything you do in cap takes some effort and about 90% of the USAF ribbons take "no effort" to earn.

Longevity, oversea tour, training ribbon, good conduct, marksman, PME, National Defense Service, AF outstanding unit, campaign medals, and most of the "point" medals are earned for just doing your job and staying out of trouble.

Most ribbons in the AF are indeed "stay clean" awards. However, it takes a little more to get "point' medals in all the places I've ever been. Anything worth points has to be written up. And for a large number of NCO's I've ever dealt with, that's too much work or they don't have time.

Quote
...If they wanted us to blend they would let us wear hard rank and blue shoulder marks!

We'll blend in anyway to most of the outsiders. You're average citizen doesn't know the difference between a Deputy Sheriff or a Highway Patrolman.

lordmonar

Quote from: Hawk200 on December 27, 2006, 06:00:03 PM
Most ribbons in the AF are indeed "stay clean" awards. However, it takes a little more to get "point' medals in all the places I've ever been. Anything worth points has to be written up. And for a large number of NCO's I've ever dealt with, that's too much work or they don't have time.

I got to say BS on this one.  First off everyone who ends a tour or PCS automatically gets a DECOR 6 generated and anyone who has a halfway decent string of 5 EPRs should not be a problem to write a decoration.  Given 3 years of bullest...it takes me maybe 3 hours to write an initial decoration.  Maybe a 2-3 hours of bullet research and then send it up the chain so they can bleed on it.

Any NCO who says they are too busy or it is too much work is a failure of an NCO...and you can say I said so!  Recognizing our people is one of our primary jobs!

But anyway...back to what I was saying.....most "point" decorations are just for doing your job, and having someone write it up for you.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Hawk200

Quote from: lordmonar on December 27, 2006, 08:22:50 PM
Quote from: Hawk200 on December 27, 2006, 06:00:03 PM
Most ribbons in the AF are indeed "stay clean" awards. However, it takes a little more to get "point' medals in all the places I've ever been. Anything worth points has to be written up. And for a large number of NCO's I've ever dealt with, that's too much work or they don't have time.

I got to say BS on this one.  First off everyone who ends a tour or PCS automatically gets a DECOR 6 generated and anyone who has a halfway decent string of 5 EPRs should not be a problem to write a decoration.  Given 3 years of bullest...it takes me maybe 3 hours to write an initial decoration.  Maybe a 2-3 hours of bullet research and then send it up the chain so they can bleed on it.

Any NCO who says they are too busy or it is too much work is a failure of an NCO...and you can say I said so!  Recognizing our people is one of our primary jobs!

But anyway...back to what I was saying.....most "point" decorations are just for doing your job, and having someone write it up for you.

I don't have a string of 5 EPR's, mostly 4s. I didn't join the squadron ball teams or attend the Squadron Christmas parties just so I could get the next day off. I simply didn't wish to associate with a lot of the people I worked with off-duty. Most of what they did was drink. I have never been a drinker, and the few times I did associate with them, I was "encouraged" to consume. I refused to do so. I was labeled as a "loner", and as "not a team player."

I'll tell you a couple of little stories as far as decs go. At one assignment, I had served as a "mentor" for an Air Force Junior ROTC encampment. The officer who commanded the encampment told the active duty mentors to go to our orderly rooms and get a form with some info on it (I don't know the form, and I don't think that matters), and bring it to the Wing CC's office. I didn't even know what it was until later, but it was for an Achievement Medal. I did receive that one.

At the end of the tour, the NCOIC told me that since I had gotten an Achievement for the JROTC encampment, they weren't going to write me for another one. A few jobs I did there could have gotten me three AFAM's, seems like a Commendation would have been easy.

The second assigment I worked for a civilian (He was my actual supervisor, there were no military in that shop over the rank of SrA at the time.) He handed me the "End of Tour Rccomendation for Decoration", said I write it up, he'd sign. I worked on it, even asked for some help from a SMSgt, put it all together. Gave my supervisor the full package that the Senior NCO helped me work on. I never received that dec.

shorning

Quote from: Hawk200 on December 27, 2006, 09:29:53 PM
I never received that dec.

Did you ever follow up on it?  Things sometimes get lost in the shuffle.  If it's important to you, you should have followed up on it.  Either way, it's a lesson to remember when you're writing awards for others.

Smokey

Well,   thanks all for the input....I really appreciate it.

Protocol must be on a long holiday break....they haven't answered the phone in a week.

I spoke today to the Commander's Secretary for the Base.....He is a Major General......her comments ...

If you are not participating in the ceremony (I am not) then service dress is out.   She told me to wear "uniform of the day", which at the base is either BDU or flight suit.   I don't own BDUs ( I'm a pilot/PA/SE so no need for BDUs) so I guess it is the flight suit.  I told her I did not want to stand out as a a beacon so her advise was ...flight suit.   Besides, I haven't seen anyone in blues and/or service dress on base since I went to a retirement at the same club for a col two years ago.  Last summer when a friend assumed command of a squadron on base, he advised me to come in flight suit and that's what everyone there, including a Brig Gen (Select) wore.

Like was said...I didn't want to overdress and stand out like Leon the Neon or a Hollywood pimp.

Thanks all   .....glad you are here.
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.

lordmonar

Quote from: Hawk200 on December 27, 2006, 09:29:53 PM
I don't have a string of 5 EPR's, mostly 4s.

Well not to put things bluntly...but if you supervisor did not think you were a 5...he also probably does not think you deserve a decoration, and I would have to agree with him, not personally knowing you.

I have met some bad supervisor and I know it can be frustrating sometimes, but bottom line is that you have to give your supervisor the ammunition to write you a decoration and if you are not rated at the top it makes it that much harder to justify a decoration.

Granted for specific achievements your over all ratings should not matter that much..and that is proved by the fact you got a medal for working the AFJROTC encampment.

If you would like to get more decorations....get your ratings up to a 5....ask your supervisor straight up what you need to go do to get a 5 and do your best.

Support for the squadron, community activities and off duty education are the three big areas that most people I have supervised need the most effort in.

It is your career, you have to make the effort to be the best if you want your supervisor to recognize you.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Psicorp

Quote from: Smokey on December 27, 2006, 10:03:03 PM
Well,   thanks all for the input....I really appreciate it.

Protocol must be on a long holiday break....they haven't answered the phone in a week.

I spoke today to the Commander's Secretary for the Base.....He is a Major General......her comments ...

If you are not participating in the ceremony (I am not) then service dress is out.   She told me to wear "uniform of the day", which at the base is either BDU or flight suit.   I don't own BDUs ( I'm a pilot/PA/SE so no need for BDUs) so I guess it is the flight suit.  I told her I did not want to stand out as a a beacon so her advise was ...flight suit.   Besides, I haven't seen anyone in blues and/or service dress on base since I went to a retirement at the same club for a col two years ago.  Last summer when a friend assumed command of a squadron on base, he advised me to come in flight suit and that's what everyone there, including a Brig Gen (Select) wore.

Like was said...I didn't want to overdress and stand out like Leon the Neon or a Hollywood pimp.

Thanks all   .....glad you are here.

Are you sure you don't want to wear the TPU??   Just kidding, sir.    Good job getting advice from the General's secretary.  Good luck, sir, and have great time!
Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
(C/Lt Col, ret.)
CC
GLR-MI-257

Smokey

Like I said....I don't want to look like a Hollywood pimp....therefore no TPU :)
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.

ColonelJack

While I would never tell someone what to think of something ... I rather resent the idea that the Corporate Service Coat looks like a "pimp" outfit.  I don't look like a pimp in mine.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: ColonelJack on December 28, 2006, 02:06:11 AM
While I would never tell someone what to think of something ... I rather resent the idea that the Corporate Service Coat looks like a "pimp" outfit.  I don't look like a pimp in mine.

Jack

Well, try getting a bigger car.
Another former CAP officer

Hawk200

Quote from: lordmonar on December 27, 2006, 10:08:57 PMI have met some bad supervisor and I know it can be frustrating sometimes, but bottom line is that you have to give your supervisor the ammunition to write you a decoration.

Ammunition? Like writing my own package, asking the assistance of a senior NCO to write it, and handing it to my supervisor with the only requirement being his signature? Is that the ammo you're talking about? Or is that somehow not enough?

QuoteIf you would like to get more decorations....get your ratings up to a 5....ask your supervisor straight up what you need to go do to get a 5 and do your best.

To me that sounds like a copout. "No 5 EPR? Screw you, then."  Doesn't matter anymore though.

QuoteSupport for the squadron, community activities and off duty education are the three big areas that most people I have supervised need the most effort in.

Squadron functions? I believed that I have failed to make a point. Most of the squadron "activities" I've ever been to included alcohol. I rarely consume. Not consuming got me labeled as "not a team player". I didn't want to party with drunks. I would be happy to accept any reasonable explanation as to why that is wrong.

Community activities: Primarily CAP. Blood donations (Red Cross). Helped deliver toys on a couple Christmases. Not much other than that, those were the few times when being a non-drinker didn't seem to matter. Didn't really know what else to do. But, yeah, definitely not enough.

Education: Something that I was definitely woefully ignorant of. Yeah I got the briefings, but the impact of education on career was never really conveyed. I know it now (also too late for the military career), starting college in the spring.

lordmonar

Quote from: Hawk200 on December 28, 2006, 04:17:41 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on December 27, 2006, 10:08:57 PMI have met some bad supervisor and I know it can be frustrating sometimes, but bottom line is that you have to give your supervisor the ammunition to write you a decoration.

Ammunition? Like writing my own package, asking the assistance of a senior NCO to write it, and handing it to my supervisor with the only requirement being his signature? Is that the ammo you're talking about? Or is that somehow not enough?

QuoteIf you would like to get more decorations....get your ratings up to a 5....ask your supervisor straight up what you need to go do to get a 5 and do your best.

To me that sounds like a copout. "No 5 EPR? Screw you, then."  Doesn't matter anymore though.

QuoteSupport for the squadron, community activities and off duty education are the three big areas that most people I have supervised need the most effort in.

Squadron functions? I believed that I have failed to make a point. Most of the squadron "activities" I've ever been to included alcohol. I rarely consume. Not consuming got me labeled as "not a team player". I didn't want to party with drunks. I would be happy to accept any reasonable explanation as to why that is wrong.

Community activities: Primarily CAP. Blood donations (Red Cross). Helped deliver toys on a couple Christmases. Not much other than that, those were the few times when being a non-drinker didn't seem to matter. Didn't really know what else to do. But, yeah, definitely not enough.

Education: Something that I was definitely woefully ignorant of. Yeah I got the briefings, but the impact of education on career was never really conveyed. I know it now (also too late for the military career), starting college in the spring.

Do we really want to do this on a public forum?  You can E-mail me at lordmonar@yahoo.com or patrick.harris@nellis.af.mil or.....we can start into it right here?
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

ColonelJack

Quoting John Kachenmeister:

"Well, try getting a bigger car."

Yeah, that little Nissan just doesn't help the image one bit, does it?   ;)

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

Hawk200

Quote from: lordmonar on December 28, 2006, 08:54:46 AM
Do we really want to do this on a public forum?  .....we can start into it right here?

Point taken, it doesn't belong here. Any information on getting ahead is completely irrelevant now anyway. So continuation is unnecessary.

Consider it dropped.