CAP Command Scarf

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I know, not everyone, heck most do not like the CAP Command Scarf. However there are those of us who will collect just about anything CAP. There is a company that has the pattern for the CAP Command Scarf, how would someone go about pushing info up the chain to have this company to supply the scarf to CAP personnel or to supply them to VG so they can sell to us?

[bosshawk]

How about enllightening some of us as to what the CAP Command Scarf might be.  I have been in this august organization 18 yrs and haven't even heard of one.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

This is what the Command Scarf looks like, it is silk, it really has no function anymore as we are in closed cockpits with no real issues with needing to clean the windscreen or your neck getting rubbed raw. It is more for a tradition item than anything.
[img alt=]http://captalk.net/MGalleryItem.php?id=370[/img]

[JohnKachenmeister]

I really don't recall what it looked like, but I remember seeing one years ago.  I remember that I thought it looked goofy, and forced it from my mind.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Yeah, I know, most people think they are ugly, but you know some of us like these sort of things for the tradition and history of CAP.  I would like to see about how to get NHQ to authorize it to be sold by the company that has the pattern or to get them to sell it to VG.

[SarDragon]

Yeah, I know, most people think they are ugly, but you know some of us like these sort of things for the tradition and history of CAP.  I would like to see about how to get NHQ to authorize it to be sold by the company that has the pattern or to get them to sell it to VG.

Tradition? I don't think so.The item is less than ten years old, and wasn't very popular when it was available.

I'm guessing that the original production run has sold out, and that the current demand is so low that the manufacturer has little, if any, incentive to make more.

On top of all that, it was, IMHO, ugly. It looked like it had yellow mutant chicken tracks all over it.

Have you checked eBay? They show up on there once in a while.

[Major Carrales]

Some people, in years past, have called it the "barf" instead of the scarf.  I may buy one for the sake of having one for my collection.

[AdAstra]

I bought one from The Bookstore for my collection, with no intention to ever wear it. I didn't think the CAP-USAF shield was appropriate for CAP members to wear.

[a2capt]

...supply them to VG so they can sell to us?

Ummm... I'm not even sure I want to know. Since you've managed to break all your graphic links again, I may not have to worry.  Even the BSA scarf looks lame with the logo on it.

[HGjunkie]

Even the BSA scarf looks lame with the logo on it.

Hey. No. 

[IceNine]

The current Colorado Wing CC has been spotted wearing the scarf on a few occasions, that's the only time I've seen one.  And when worn correctly looks "not bad" with the green bag.

[JC004]

Since the pictures are broken, it's a yellow silk scarf with just a bunch of red props on it.  It was a great way of continuing the great work that has been done over the past few years of simplifying the uniforms and making the whole uniform thing easier to understand.   

[SarDragon]

Oh, those are props? I could swear that the were yellow red mutant chicken tracks all over it.

[flyboy53]

It's not a command scarf, it's an aircrew scarf and I though it was still available from Vanguard.

The scarf was an initiative of Maj. Gen. Bowling to promote pride, espirt de corps, etc., among aircrews, whether blue or green flight suits. It served to dress up the flight suit and allowed the "gee wiz" factor with cadets. I still have one or two.

It's an Air Force thing and was developed when our relationship with Ma Blue was a little bit better. I liked it, still use it from time to time, found it to be a prized collectable, and an excellent award for deserving cadets. Also, I thought it was also worn by the CAP-USAF side.

[FW]

^I think this is correct.  The Rick Greenhut designed scarf was first introduced to the National Board for consideration after "911".  I don't think it ever was officially authorized for wear and, never became popular.  I have never seen the scarf worn in the field.  I didn't even realize you can still buy one. 

[flyboy53]

^I think this is correct.  The Rick Greenhut designed scarf was first introduced to the National Board for consideration after "911".  I don't think it ever was officially authorized for wear and, never became popular.  I have never seen the scarf worn in the field.  I didn't even realize you can still buy one.

Actually, it was. Please note:

64 CAPM 39-1 23 MARCH 2005
Table 2-4. Men’s and Women’s Flight Suit
L
I
N
E Item Wear Instruction/Materials
1 Flight Suit Green NOMEX. Flight crew members electing to wear this flight suit
must meet the weight and grooming standards. Worn with the badges
and devices described in Figure 2-19...........7 Scarf A yellow and red CAP command scarf is authorized to be worn tucked
into the neck.

And I stand corrected. I never realized it was called the "command scarf."

[manfredvonrichthofen]

You can't really buy one. VG says they don't have a supplier. I found a company within about ten minutes of searching, they have the pattern, but won't use it because they are aware of the NHQ black vans  . I know it is authorized, and it is not that we want to wear it, yeah we probably would, we want it to have it. I wanted to know if anyone knew how to push up the chain to get a vendor authorized.

[jeders]

Well you could always drop the Vanguard people a line and inquire as to why they are failing in their contractual obligations to supply the entire line of CAP products. Though if anyone does know how to get Vanguard to make everything they're supposed to, I'd appreciate it. There are other things that they're supposed to be making that they aren't.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Well you could always drop the Vanguard people a line and inquire as to why they are failing in their contractual obligations to supply the entire line of CAP products. Though if anyone does know how to get Vanguard to make everything they're supposed to, I'd appreciate it. There are other things that they're supposed to be making that they aren't.

I would be interested to find out what all they aren't selling that they are supposed to, other than the uniform components such as the service jacket and pants for the Aviator shirt. So what aren't they selling?

[jeders]

Obviously the command scarf, also unit citation streamers I know. I'm sure that there are a number of other items.

[FW]

Actually, it was. Please note:

64 CAPM 39-1 23 MARCH 2005
Table 2-4. Men's and Women's Flight Suit
L
I
N
E Item Wear Instruction/Materials
1 Flight Suit Green NOMEX. Flight crew members electing to wear this flight suit
must meet the weight and grooming standards. Worn with the badges
and devices described in Figure 2-19...........7 Scarf A yellow and red CAP command scarf is authorized to be worn tucked
into the neck.

Good to know.  Thanks.  If there is really a demand for the scarf, bother your wing commanders (thru the chain, of course) and, maybe magic will happen :angel:
I personally think I don't look good in yellow and red...

[jeders]

I will say that I've seen the scarf worn once. When I was a cadet, one of the Air Force pilots in our squadron wore it and it didn't look that bad. I personally wouldn't wear it, but it looks a lot better on a person than in a picture.

[BillB]

If all the scarf has is a bunch of 3 bladed props, any company can make them. The 3 bladed prop is NOT covered by copyright or logo. Put it inside a triangle and there would be problems.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

If all the scarf has is a bunch of 3 bladed props, any company can make them. The 3 bladed prop is NOT covered by copyright or logo. Put it inside a triangle and there would be problems.

There is also the Command Patch and the USAF/CAP patch at the ends.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Since it seems that no one is able to see the other picture here it is again.

[cap235629]

Since it seems that no one is able to see the other picture here it is again.

OK I just barfed all over my laptop......

[Eclipse]

Assuming there was any interest, it would have to be redone - the MAJCOM is two revs old and the CAP-USAF insignia is not really appropriate for wear by members (I know that this is a sore point for them as that is an actual USAF Command).

[PaulR]

Whatever you call it, it is "Ho Ho Horrendous" LOL

[PHall]

As for "it's an Air Force thing". Most aircrew members avoided wearing scarves at all costs.
Usually seen when attending "mandatory fun" sessions like Wing Safety Meetings.
They serve no useful purpose because they won't absorb sweat or keep you warm.
About the only thing they're good for might be as a tourniquet.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

As for "it's an Air Force thing". Most aircrew members avoided wearing scarves at all costs.
Usually seen when attending "mandatory fun" sessions like Wing Safety Meetings.
They serve no useful purpose because they won't absorb sweat or keep you warm.
About the only thing they're good for might be as a tourniquet.

I have already stated that I know they serve no real purpose, there are just a few that I know, including myself that want them, if for no other reason than they are CAP uniform items.

[a2capt]

FTW! "mutant chicken tracks".. no way.  Just... No.

[Al Sayre]

As for "it's an Air Force thing". Most aircrew members avoided wearing scarves at all costs.
Usually seen when attending "mandatory fun" sessions like Wing Safety Meetings.
They serve no useful purpose because they won't absorb sweat or keep you warm.
About the only thing they're good for might be as a tourniquet.

You could also use it to hang yourself when about to suffer death by powerpoint...

[PaulR]

Why hang yourself when you could use it to garrote the presenter.  After all, he/she is the one with the crappy powerpoint! LOL

[bosshawk]

I now regret having asked what it was.

[SarDragon]

Paul, this is a tough crowd!

[bosshawk]

Yes, Dave, it is.

[PaulR]

I now regret having asked what it was.

Jeesh.  If someone cannot make fun of a garment accessory that is obviously hidious [color=red](disclaimer:  completely my opinion, which may or may not be shared by others) [/color] , what else is there? 

I did not mean to make anyone feel offended or feel personally attacked( and still dont understand how I could have ).  Regardless, I render my deepest apologies to anyone I may have upset.   

[bosshawk]

You certainly didn't offend me: I am too old and have too many miles under my belt to be offended by most of what is offered on CT.  What I was referring to was the plethora of responses to a simple question.  On CT, if one wants to see five pages of comments, one has only to raise a simple uniform question.

[PaulR]

Yes sir,

I understand.   

[flyboy53]

Since it seems that no one is able to see the other picture here it is again.

OK I just barfed all over my laptop......

Too bad, I liked it, its quite sharp and the colors are great; especially since gold is an Air Force color of honor and the red three-bladed propellor is for obvious reasons...our wartime heritage.

The thing I think is real interesting is that I really wonder how valid the last revision of the command patch is. The scarf has the original that remains highly preferred and I have other things obtained since the third change that have U.S. under the triangle...Hmmmm.

[jeders]

Yeah, I know, most people think they are ugly, but you know some of us like these sort of things for the tradition and history of CAP.  I would like to see about how to get NHQ to authorize it to be sold by the company that has the pattern or to get them to sell it to VG.

According to the CAP rep at Vanguard, they are currently working on getting the scarf produced.

[Hawk200]

Yeah, I know, most people think they are ugly, but you know some of us like these sort of things for the tradition and history of CAP.  I would like to see about how to get NHQ to authorize it to be sold by the company that has the pattern or to get them to sell it to VG.

According to the CAP rep at Vanguard, they are currently working on getting the scarf produced.

For collection purposes, I don't have any issues. But when someone wears it, most people think they're a tool.

[tsrup]

I have one, and when I do wear my bag (not very often) to meetings, I wear it.  When being worn, it is a lot more low key and lot less ostentatious as seeing one sans-bag.  It's a talking point, and there is history behind it. 

I do not wear it on missions though.  Scarves at one time may have served a purpose, but that time has come and passed.


(btw, I too think the pattern is hideous, but that is part of the tradition of organizational scarves)

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I also talked to VG a while back about the items they don't carry. I wanted to know about the service jacket and about the command scarf and they acted like they were trying to find a supplier too, but when I pointed to www.ramaworld.com, they had no interest in hearing about them. I don't think they care too much about the CAP items. They said that they just flat don't carry the service jacket, and from what I can tell, they won't either.

[davidsinn]

I don't think they care too much about the CAP items. They said that they just flat don't carry the service jacket, and from what I can tell, they won't either.

Why should they? The only supplier of it sells direct to us and would undercut them on price. It is also not a mandatory item.

[Mustang]

Scarves have fallen out of vogue in the AF.  Pretty much the only ones who wear them now are Space/Missile guys and USAFA/ROTC cadets.

[PHall]

Scarves have fallen out of vogue in the AF.  Pretty much the only ones who wear them now are Space/Missile guys and USAFA/ROTC cadets.

They never were "in vogue" with the heavy drivers, we wore them only when we "had" to wear them.
They seemed to be much more popular with the fighter pilots and then only the "tools" wore them.

[bosshawk]

I have a feeling that a lot of you folks have never had the "pleasure" of wearing one of those things.  Back in the day, I had 18 months at Ft Bragg and a year in Korea when we wore the D--------- things every day with fatigues or flight suits.  They are a constant pain because they fit right up against your neck, constantly slip and slide and are just a PITA.  I still have my MI scarf and it sits on the bottom of my foot locker.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have a feeling that a lot of you folks have never had the "pleasure" of wearing one of those things.  Back in the day, I had 18 months at Ft Bragg and a year in Korea when we wore the D--------- things every day with fatigues or flight suits.  They are a constant pain because they fit right up against your neck, constantly slip and slide and are just a PITA.  I still have my MI scarf and it sits on the bottom of my foot locker.

Sir, it doesn't matter if it sits on the bottom of your foot locker does it? I doubt you would get rid of it even if you hate wearing it. It is just the fact that you have it. It is that way for me. I just want to have one even if I never wear it.

[bosshawk]

15: have at it, I wouldn't want to deny you the pleasure.  I was just thinking about some of the silly uniform items that I wore at one time or another.

[bosshawk]

OOPs, Manfred, I was thinking that you were Radioman15.  I probably ran into one or more of your ancestors when I was in FRG.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

OOPs, Manfred, I was thinking that you were Radioman15.  I probably ran into one or more of your ancestors when I was in FRG.

506 FRG?

[bosshawk]

FRG: Federal Republic of Germany.  My first tour of duty in the Army, I won't tell you the years, it was so long ago.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Oh, hahaha. FRG: Family Readiness Group.