Minimum time to Level 5?

[Eclipse]

This one I am not sure of, I'm guessing 4-5 years, assuming one completed SOS instead of NSC, or was accepted to NSC with a waiver, but I am guessing that there might be shorter routes to master for some of the qualifications?

[caphornbuckle]

I'd say you're in the right ballpark

SLS & CLC could be taken in the same year
The Basic Officer Course can be taken after completing level I
RSC & NSC can be taken in the same year (with waivers)
3 years command/staff experience
Master Rating in a specialty track would depend on what track you are going for as to how long it would take for you to get it.

It's entirely possible for a Captain to complete Level V.

I would advise against anyone trying to go through the senior program so quick though.  Take time to absorb some things along the way and enjoy yourself.  I pushed myself and completed my level IV in less than 5 years (being a cadet helped me get through a little easier in this timeframe).  I need NSC to complete level V and once the money fairy shows up, I'll be able to go.

Will this work or does someone else have a better idea?

[Major Carrales]

Eclipse...a serious question for you with not "sting" or "angle..."  why would anyone want to achieve Level 5 so quickly?

Maybe it's just my experience or situation (or preference), but I sort of like taking my time in the service of CAP.  When I become some sort of "Lt Col," I want to have years behind me in CAP as well as the knowledge and wisdom that comes from that. 

Rushing to get to Level 5 seems like a bit of a bummer to me.

[Ron1319]

I'm still a bit disappointed that my two years as a Captain in 2000 and 2001 don't count as time in grade towards Major.

[Eclipse]

I'm not saying it is a good idea, just curious what the minimums are.

I took about 8 to LIV, it'll be about 11 or more to LV.

Just wondering what the curve is.

[jimmydeanno]

They don't do waivers for NSC.  You must have Level 4 done and you must be a Major or above, or Chief Master Sergeant.

[jimmydeanno]

This one I am not sure of, I'm guessing 4-5 years, assuming one completed SOS instead of NSC, or was accepted to NSC with a waiver, but I am guessing that there might be shorter routes to master for some of the qualifications?

The real stopping blocks are going to be the "serve as staff officer" times and the time for the specialty track rating.  Really, you could have a former military officer who gets advanced promotion to Major or Above with all the PD equivalence.

I would presume to say that two years would be the minimum because of the "serve as staff officer for two years" requirement, especially if the said officer does the administration specialty track that only has a 1 year to master rating...

[Tim Medeiros]

Joined as SM 19 Jan 07, Level 5 awarded 18 Nov 10, so 3 years and almost 10 months.  Depending on timing of your 21st birthday could likely do it within the first quarter of your third year.


Mind you, this would be for a former Spaatz cadet.

[CAP Producer]

Note that most members will never complete Level V for a variety of reasons including that it is not required for any SM Promotion.

Level V is one of those nice to have achivements but unless it is tied to a promotion or is a requirement for a duty assignment like National Staff Advisor/Team Leader, Wing CC or Region CC few people will complete it.

NSC is valuable but many cannot take a week off for it. Doing real staff work at the wing and region level (and getting real results) is just as valuable as a week at Maxwell.

IMO.

[flyboy53]

Don't hold your breath. This person would be more wrapped up in completing requirements than really participating.

True, CLC and SLS can be completed the same year, but things like SOS and ACSC or AWC, take at least a year to complete. You can't do them at the same time and there are specific grade requirements to be enrolled.

Also, the only waivers I've ever seen are for CAP senior NCOs to participate in things like NSC.

Sure, my wife and I did SLS and CLS the same year. However, the only ones who have the best opportunity for something like this would be former Spaatz or Eaker cadet who completed some of the requirements while a cadet; specifically getting things like OBC or obtaining a speciality rating while cadets in things like emergency services or communication.

[Al Sayre]

I did it in just under 5 years, but I got a pass on ECI-13 due to Military schools and TIG shortcut to Capt by being a Squadron Commander.  Did both RSC and NSC this year.

[MSG Mac]

 I rejoined CAP as a CPT  in  Jan 1983 and received my GRW in February 1985, again as a Captain.   

[mmizner]

There is no reason to rush.  Part of being a LV5 senior is that you have some time and experience in the program. I personally witnessed "Box Checkers" at NSC that really didn't grasp the training, because they were only there to check the "box".  If checking a box is your motivation, I think you miss out on a lot of valuable education CAP has to offer.  CAP is for serving and learning, not a race for pins or awards.

[Eclipse]

I'm not sure why asking what the minimum is as a curiosity automatically turns into the idea that people should rush things.

My personal experience has been that a reasonably active member, fully-participating, can complete the requisite PD in the time
needed for their grades with little "extra" effort.  The only ones who have issues are the ones who ignore PD in favor of "whatever", and then one day notice a calendar and start complaining about how "hard" it is.

I recently promoted a member who had been a Captain for 23 years - during that time the long-time unit CC did not emphasize PD or outside participation.  Flying was the end all and be all.

When the new guarde came in a commander and staff, he started seeing members a lot younger wearing more grade, ribbons, and being involved in "more".  He stepped things up and got his LIII, but he basically had to start from nearly scratch despite his long CAP history because no one had been guiding him over the years.

[a2capt]

My personal experience has been that a reasonably active member, fully-participating, can complete the requisite PD in the time needed for their grades with little "extra" effort.  The only ones who have issues are the ones who ignore PD in favor of "whatever", and then one day notice a calendar and start complaining about how "hard" it is.

I agree there, and thats been my own personal experience too. When the time arrives, looking back I see that if not all, most has been done.. they fill out the 2A, and send it in. If that makes me a box checking rushing race horse.. then oh well. Reminds me, I need to start looking at my specialty track stuff to see where I stand activity wise.

[davedove]

The absolute minimum I can work out is 3 years, due to the command/service requirement for Level V.
The shortest Masters Rating time requirement I can find is 2 years (plus the time to complete Level I).
The "duty performance" minimum time is 6 years for Major, which is required for NSC, but there are any number of ways to get Major faster than that.

I'd say you're in the right ballpark

SLS & CLC could be taken in the same year
The Basic Officer Course can be taken after completing level I
RSC & NSC can be taken in the same year (with waivers)
3 years command/staff experience
Master Rating in a specialty track would depend on what track you are going for as to how long it would take for you to get it.

It's entirely possible for a Captain to complete Level V.

I would advise against anyone trying to go through the senior program so quick though.  Take time to absorb some things along the way and enjoy yourself.  I pushed myself and completed my level IV in less than 5 years (being a cadet helped me get through a little easier in this timeframe).  I need NSC to complete level V and once the money fairy shows up, I'll be able to go.

Will this work or does someone else have a better idea?

[bosshawk]

This whole conversation about getting to Level Five is apparently not very high priority among CAP members, since around five percent of all CAP seniors ever attain it.

[Chappie]

There is no reason to rush.  Part of being a LV5 senior is that you have some time and experience in the program. I personally witnessed "Box Checkers" at NSC that really didn't grasp the training, because they were only there to check the "box".  If checking a box is your motivation, I think you miss out on a lot of valuable education CAP has to offer.  CAP is for serving and learning, not a race for pins or awards.

Good obs, Mike. 

On the topic of minimum time: I came in as 1Lt in 1996 -- went to NSC in 2001 and received my GRW. Levels I-IV were completed by the fall of 2000.  I was on Wing Staff in 2001 so the learning and experience (i.e. networking) of NSC proved very beneficial.

As mentioned in a previous post...part of the problem is the lack of emphasis on the PD.  The Wing Chaplain that served when I first joined did not emphasize PD.  At that time in the Chaplain Corps program, all that was necessary for a chaplain to promote was to inhale and exhale for time-in-grade after completing Level I.  Had it not been for some great mentors inside and outside of the Chaplain Corps...I too may have been one of the Level I  Lt Col (s) that were prevalent in the Chaplain Corps at that time.  This has all changed in recent years and chaplains are now required to complete the Levels of training in the PD program as well as their time in grade (after the initial Professional appointment) in order to promote.

[mmizner]

I may have not been completely clear... 

I agree with with you guys.  If you are working the program and involved the boxes seem to get checked on there own.  And, we should push seniors to be involved in the program and work on their own PD so they can be a valued asset to the organization.

I made the comment about rushing because it has been my experience when Someone is asking those questions they are more worried about getting to the end than enjoying the ride.  CAP is all about the experience, that what makes it fun..

Sorry if I assumed incorrectly.

[exFlight Officer]

I agree with some previous posts. Some squadrons I have visited do not emphasize PD. In my squadron, PD is emphasized to the full extent.

I became a member of CAP in early 2009. I will have my level 3 completed in February 2011. My Level 4 will be completed in September of 2011 by which time I will be a First Lieutenant. Am I rushing things, no not in my opinion. I do make it a goal to achieve Level 5.


Edit: Noticed I put the wrong year for Level 3 completion.

[DakRadz]

I agree with some previous posts. Some squadrons I have visited do not emphasize PD. In my squadron, PD is emphasized to the full extent.

I became a member of CAP in early 2009. I will have my level 3 completed in February 2010. My Level 4 will be completed in September of 2011 by which time I will be a First Lieutenant. Am I rushing things, no not in my opinion. I do make it a goal to achieve Level 5.

Now would be a good time for me to ask, "What about Flight Officers?"

Serious question, actually. I don't know how successful my cadet career is going to be at this point... Especially with the whole "Active Duty enlistment" thoughts running through my head.

[EMT-83]

OK, what about Flight Officers?

[exFlight Officer]

I agree with some previous posts. Some squadrons I have visited do not emphasize PD. In my squadron, PD is emphasized to the full extent.

I became a member of CAP in early 2009. I will have my level 3 completed in February 2010. My Level 4 will be completed in September of 2011 by which time I will be a First Lieutenant. Am I rushing things, no not in my opinion. I do make it a goal to achieve Level 5.

Now would be a good time for me to ask, "What about Flight Officers?"

Serious question, actually. I don't know how successful my cadet career is going to be at this point... Especially with the whole "Active Duty enlistment" thoughts running through my head.

You have caught my curiosity. What about Flight Officers ?

[jimmydeanno]

You have caught my curiosity. What about Flight Officers ?

What about them?  I didn't even think they were real members. 

[exFlight Officer]

You have caught my curiosity. What about Flight Officers ?

What about them?  I didn't even think they were real members. 

We are only Super Cadets     

[Spaceman3750]

I agree with some previous posts. Some squadrons I have visited do not emphasize PD. In my squadron, PD is emphasized to the full extent.

I became a member of CAP in early 2009. I will have my level 3 completed in February 2010. My Level 4 will be completed in September of 2011 by which time I will be a First Lieutenant. Am I rushing things, no not in my opinion. I do make it a goal to achieve Level 5.

Now would be a good time for me to ask, "What about Flight Officers?"

Serious question, actually. I don't know how successful my cadet career is going to be at this point... Especially with the whole "Active Duty enlistment" thoughts running through my head.

Well, many uninformed senior members will think you're a cadet, some funny-graded lieutenant, or an airman in the Canadian Air Force. Other than that, you will have the same responsibilities as any other senior member and as a whole the experience isn't much different.

[DakRadz]

I agree with some previous posts. Some squadrons I have visited do not emphasize PD. In my squadron, PD is emphasized to the full extent.

I became a member of CAP in early 2009. I will have my level 3 completed in February 2010. My Level 4 will be completed in September of 2011 by which time I will be a First Lieutenant. Am I rushing things, no not in my opinion. I do make it a goal to achieve Level 5.

Now would be a good time for me to ask, "What about Flight Officers?"

Serious question, actually. I don't know how successful my cadet career is going to be at this point... Especially with the whole "Active Duty enlistment" thoughts running through my head.

You have caught my curiosity. What about Flight Officers ?

I was wondering at what level they could advance- never mind me, sirs. I have found the Holy Grail and have been studying it for some time now. (AKA CAPR 50-17).

Answered my questions pretty quick.

Well, many uninformed senior members will think you're a cadet, some funny-graded lieutenant, or an airman in the Canadian Air Force. Other than that, you will have the same responsibilities as any other senior member and as a whole the experience isn't much different.

Heh, if I do go SM it'll be with a few AD ribbons- which might stop 25% of the remarks, though none of the confusion I'm sure.

[exFlight Officer]

I agree with some previous posts. Some squadrons I have visited do not emphasize PD. In my squadron, PD is emphasized to the full extent.

I became a member of CAP in early 2009. I will have my level 3 completed in February 2010. My Level 4 will be completed in September of 2011 by which time I will be a First Lieutenant. Am I rushing things, no not in my opinion. I do make it a goal to achieve Level 5.

Now would be a good time for me to ask, "What about Flight Officers?"

Serious question, actually. I don't know how successful my cadet career is going to be at this point... Especially with the whole "Active Duty enlistment" thoughts running through my head.

Well, many uninformed senior members will think you're a cadet, some funny-graded lieutenant, or an airman in the Canadian Air Force. Other than that, you will have the same responsibilities as any other senior member and as a whole the experience isn't much different.

I agree with Spaceman3750. The experience as a Senior Member is pretty much the same.

I do have my fair share of stories about my grade. A few Senior Members have called me a cadet, several times, and I respectfuly corrected them. A cadet at the last Encampment I attended asked me, "Sir, what is that line down the middle of your Lieutenant rank?" I informed him that I was a TFO. It astounds me that 98% of the members I have met do not know what a Flight Officer is, eventhough the rank is in the CAP Folder that new members recieve. << This is all a seperate topic.

I became a Flight Officer in early 2009 when I joined CAP because I had already turned 18 and was informed that I could not become a cadet. I found that I could advance my Professional Development (up to Level 4 since I am not a Major yet) before I turn 21, had more responsiblity, and be able to be put in a staff position (as a SM) in the squadron.

[Spaceman3750]

I agree with some previous posts. Some squadrons I have visited do not emphasize PD. In my squadron, PD is emphasized to the full extent.

I became a member of CAP in early 2009. I will have my level 3 completed in February 2010. My Level 4 will be completed in September of 2011 by which time I will be a First Lieutenant. Am I rushing things, no not in my opinion. I do make it a goal to achieve Level 5.

Now would be a good time for me to ask, "What about Flight Officers?"

Serious question, actually. I don't know how successful my cadet career is going to be at this point... Especially with the whole "Active Duty enlistment" thoughts running through my head.

Well, many uninformed senior members will think you're a cadet, some funny-graded lieutenant, or an airman in the Canadian Air Force. Other than that, you will have the same responsibilities as any other senior member and as a whole the experience isn't much different.

I agree with Spaceman3750. The experience as a Senior Member is pretty much the same.

I do have my fair share of stories about my grade. A few Senior Members have called me a cadet, several times, and I respectfuly corrected them. A cadet at the last Encampment I attended asked me, "Sir, what is that line down the middle of your Lieutenant rank?" I informed him that I was a TFO. It astounds me that 98% of the members I have met do not know what a Flight Officer is, eventhough the rank is in the CAP Folder that new members recieve. << This is all a seperate topic.

I became a Flight Officer in early 2009 when I joined CAP because I had already turned 18 and was informed that I could not become a cadet. I found that I could advance my Professional Development (up to Level 4 since I am not a Major yet) before I turn 21, had more responsiblity, and be able to be put in a staff position (as a SM) in the squadron.

Heh. Good luck getting to Level 4 as a flight officer... I don't know what specialty track you're in, but mine requires the better part of a decade and a wing-level assignment to master.

[IceNine]

^ Over achiever 

Realistically...
A member can walk in the door with everything through NSC.

Then its a matter of 2-3 Years to master for most ratings.

3 Years command and staff Service

During that time you could easily complete all of the requirements that are not dependent on time.

So fast tracked 3 years.

[SARDOC]

Heh. Good luck getting to Level 4 as a flight officer... I don't know what specialty track you're in, but mine requires the better part of a decade to master and a wing-level assignment (ES).

What Specialty Track are you in that requires a Wing Level Assignment???

[Spaceman3750]

Heh. Good luck getting to Level 4 as a flight officer... I don't know what specialty track you're in, but mine requires the better part of a decade to master and a wing-level assignment (ES).

What Specialty Track are you in that requires a Wing Level Assignment???

ES. The master level requires it.

Continuously serve as an ESO or an assistant at the wing or region level for at least 3 additional years after completing the ESO Senior Rating level

EDIT: In retrospect, I worded my last post poorly. I'll rephrase it.

[Bluelakes 13]

AE has only 4 months resident in each level.  But you have to be an active AEO to complete.  I did it in 18 months.

I completed Level 4 while a 1st Lt.  Would have completed Level 5 if not for NSC.  I like Al's idea of having Region staff experience as a waiver to NSC.   

[ol'fido]

One of these days I need to break down and do ACSC. Don't really have time to go to NSC and that's all I lack for Level V.

[jeders]

Heh. Good luck getting to Level 4 as a flight officer... I don't know what specialty track you're in, but mine requires the better part of a decade to master and a wing-level assignment (ES).

What Specialty Track are you in that requires a Wing Level Assignment???

ES. The master level requires it.

Continuously serve as an ESO or an assistant at the wing or region level for at least 3 additional years after completing the ESO Senior Rating level

EDIT: In retrospect, I worded my last post poorly. I'll rephrase it.

That's why you do two specialty tracks, ES for what you want, and Admin for promotion.