CAP senior member NCOs are not "Officers" but cadet officers are

[RiverAux]

While perusing 39 I noticed this in the definitions section:

a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel.
b. Airman: Unless otherwise specified, includes all other uniformed members both senior and cadet.

I find it interesting that while we are being encouraged to use "Officers" as a synonym for the "Senior Member", that the uniform regulation includes cadets in that definition but specifically excludes those few CAP senior members with NCO ranks. 

[Hammer]

While perusing 39 I noticed this in the definitions section:

a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel.
b. Airman: Unless otherwise specified, includes all other uniformed members both senior and cadet.

I find it interesting that while we are being encouraged to use "Officers" as a synonym for the "Senior Member", that the uniform regulation includes cadets in that definition but specifically excludes those few CAP senior members with NCO ranks. 

When you find something that makes sense in CAP,, let me know 

[MIKE]

I thought we beat this to death already, but maybe I'm thinking of another forum.

Personally, I do not care for the use of the term officer as has been suggested.  I can understand where it appears to be coming from though, based on the CAP/CC's background as a LEO.

[ELTHunter]

I thought we beat this to death already, but maybe I'm thinking of another forum.

Personally, I do not care for the use of the term officer as has been suggested.  I can understand where it appears to be coming from though, based on the CAP/CC's background as a LEO.

It's a lot better than Senior Member, which really does conjure up images of old gray haired guys sitting around hanger flying.

[MIKE]

I like Auxiliarist, but nobody asked me. 

[A.Member]

I like Auxiliarist, but nobody asked me. 

I think that's a better choice as well.  But like you, the board doesn't call me for opinions - probably rightfully so.    

[ELTHunter]

While perusing 39 I noticed this in the definitions section:

a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel.
b. Airman: Unless otherwise specified, includes all other uniformed members both senior and cadet.

I find it interesting that while we are being encouraged to use "Officers" as a synonym for the "Senior Member", that the uniform regulation includes cadets in that definition but specifically excludes those few CAP senior members with NCO ranks. 

In looking at 39-1 in regards to another thread, it occurred to me that defining the term Officer in this way was only intended as it applied to the uniform manual where it describes and depicts the various uniforms.  I don't believe it was attempting to make that definition the hard and fast rule applying everywhere.

[RiverAux]

ELT, I was making the same assumption you are, but as far as I know off the top of my head, there aren't a whole lot of places that officially define Officer and Airman.  I'm sort of stickler for consistency between regulations so these sorts of things catch my attention. 

[ELTHunter]

I'm sort of stickler for consistency between regulations so these sorts of things catch my attention. 

I bet CAP drives you over the edge, huh

[shorning]

I'm sort of stickler for consistency between regulations so these sorts of things catch my attention. 

That's all well and good, but pay attention to dates.  If the dates don't match, or at least close, then differences in terminology doesn't mean much.  Do you really expect NHQ to instantly update all materials (regs, manuals, forms, fliers, etc.) just because they changed "happy" to "glad"?  Why not worry about something important?

[ELTHunter]

I've always thought it wasn't quite right to call Cadet Sargents NCO's also, because no CAP members are commissioned whether they are Senior Member Officers or Cadet Officers.

[RiverAux]

That's all well and good, but pay attention to dates.  If the dates don't match, or at least close, then differences in terminology doesn't mean much.  Do you really expect NHQ to instantly update all materials (regs, manuals, forms, fliers, etc.) just because they changed "happy" to "glad"? 

No, I don't expect that.

Why not worry about something important?

Ohh, you shouldn't have said that....you're on my list.....I'll be waiting for the next time you start a topic about something "not important"..... Maybe I don't need bother waiting, you've only ever started 7 topics and do most of your posting in the "unimportant" uniform board....  

[ZigZag911]

Isn't "auxiliarist" already 'taken' by Coast Guard Aux??

Why deliberately confuse the two organizations?

Granted we don't have commissions, but we do have appointments --thus CAP officers, CAP NCOs, CAP cadet officers, CAP cadet NCOs.

[shorning]

Maybe I don't need bother waiting, you've only ever started 7 topics and do most of your posting in the "unimportant" uniform board.... 

Glad you're keeping track.   I guess you really don't have anything better to do.  Actually, I'm sure you understood point I was making, but are just choosing to be difficult.  If that's what floats your boat...

[MIKE]

Isn't "auxiliarist" already 'taken' by Coast Guard Aux??

Yep, and I happen to be one.

Why deliberately confuse the two organizations?

Because they are both auxiliaries... One more than the other, but still.  We can dream can't we?

Oh no! I accidentally wore my trousers for trops with my service uniform... Ahhhh! 

[Hammer]

I've always thought it wasn't quite right to call Cadet Sargents NCO's also, because no CAP members are commissioned whether they are Senior Member Officers or Cadet Officers.

That's not necessaraly true.  There's an Active Duty Air Force Lt Col in my Squadron, who is Comissioned.  True, not all CAP SM's are, just the former, current, and retired Military.  FWIW, I hear that CAP SM NCO's out-rank CAP SM Officers, because their rank is Federal. But that's just what I was told by someone who's both a CAP and AF Officer.

[Al Sayre]

IF that's the case it could get awful confusing, since there are many CAP SM Officers who are retired/AD NCO's.  I can think of about 20 on this board off the top of my head...

Besides, in CAP positional authority trumps grade.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Since it is in 39-1, I'm sure the distinction is only for uniforms.  So they don't have to keep saying:  "A 1/2 blue sleeve braid will be worn by CAP senior member officers, except those officers considered non-commissioned officers, even though the people that we give rank that would otherwise reflect commissioned officer status, in fact, do not actually have commissions, so in that sense everyone is a non-commissioned officer, except those people in CAP who actually hold a commission from some other place and the part about the blue sleeve braid also applies to flight officers, who also are not commissioned, but not considered by us to be non-commissioned officers."   

[MIKE]

... but if we had commissions as Auxiliary Officers ...

Nevermind...

[Psicorp]

I think a lot of people have missed the point on this.  My opinion (given free of charge) is that there is a world of difference between a Military commission and a CAP commission.  As an entirely seperate organization, CAP can commission (appoint) whomever it to whatever it wants...it means nothing outside the confines of CAP.  An active or retired military officer can be given equal grade within CAP, but it isn't required.  We could say that an Active Duty four star General starts off as a Senior Member without grade (Officer Candidate) like everyone else, since this is an entirely different (and civilian) organization.

Given that we are also a corporation, corporations can, and often do, have officers.  These are usually positions, we just happen to have a grade structure to go with them, and that grade structure is based on our parent organization, the Air Force.   If someone really wanted to be a stickler about it, we could change the designations slightly and call CAP Officers "Appointed Officers" and NCOs, "Non-Appointed Officers" (NAOs).