Chaplain Limitations?

[DakRadz]

So, I've heard things "through the grapevine" and also from a ARNG/CAP chaplain who may have been talking about the Guard with this, but:

In CAP, are chaplains limited in what positions they can fill? Such as Sqd/CC, Deputies, NEC, NB, etc.- are there any jobs which a chaplain is restricted from serving in?

[Eclipse]

They cannot be Commanders, Deputy Commanders, TCO's, or the investigating authority in an IG investigation.  I don't see any reason they could not sit on the board or the NEC.

Per 261-1
5. Chaplain Corps Duty Restrictions. Chaplains will not perform duties incompatible with their professional role. They are not required to conduct or take part in religious activities that conflict with their faith group doctrines or personal religious convictions. Chaplains are not eligible to serve as a CAP commander, deputy commander, testing officer, or be designated as an investigating officer as prescribed by CAPR 123-2. Wing chaplains may grade chaplain corps exams (221A, 221B, 221C) without compromising their chaplain status. Chaplains who wish to engage in duties incompatible with their role as listed above must withdraw from the Chaplain Corps to do so. After 24 months, a chaplain must re-apply on a new Form 35 and obtain a current ecclesiastical endorsement. Chaplains have rank without command; however, chaplains may exercise operational supervision over Chaplain Corps personnel and activities.

I don't understand why they can't be TCO's, if we can't expect ethical behavior of Chaplains, who else can we trust?

[Hawk200]

I don't understand why they can't be TCO's, if we can't expect ethical behavior of Chaplains, who else can we trust?

I don't think it's a case of not trusting ethical behaviour, it's that testing is simply outside their realm of responsibility. A chaplain really shouldn't have anything that potentially takes them away from their duties for any period of time.

Of course, that's just my take on it.

[DakRadz]

Alrighty then, next question:

Does the CAP/VC count as a restricted position? I recall that one of the candidates was a chaplain, and remember thinking "isn't that a command position?".

I don't understand why they can't be TCO's, if we can't expect ethical behavior of Chaplains, who else can we trust?

Can I get an amen? Hawk200 makes a good point, though- what's more important, overseeing an Earhart test or counseling the crying cadet who has just rushed to the Chaplain?

[Eclipse]

The same could be said for just about any other staff position, especially the commander.

That sounds nice on paper, but makes little sense considering how short-handed most units are.

[Hawk200]

Alrighty then, next question:

Does the CAP/VC count as a restricted position? I recall that one of the candidates was a chaplain, and remember thinking "isn't that a command position?".

Yeah, that would be a staff position.

[RiverAux]

I don't understand why they can't be TCO's, if we can't expect ethical behavior of Chaplains, who else can we trust?

I don't think it's a case of not trusting ethical behaviour, it's that testing is simply outside their realm of responsibility. A chaplain really shouldn't have anything that potentially takes them away from their duties for any period of time.

Of course, that's just my take on it.

But why single out testing officer rather than something really time consuming such as ES officer, Operations Officer, etc? 

[Hawk200]

That sounds nice on paper, but makes little sense considering how short-handed most units are.

I don't know about your wing, but to my knowledge, our wing only has three or four chaplains. They're assigned to the groups with one at wing.

A unit level assignment would be leave them pretty busy.

[DakRadz]

Alrighty then, next question:

Does the CAP/VC count as a restricted position? I recall that one of the candidates was a chaplain, and remember thinking "isn't that a command position?".

Yeah, that would be a staff position.

So... How was the chaplain allowed to run? If he was a chaplain, though I'm approximately 95% sure he was.

[Eclipse]

Alrighty then, next question:

Does the CAP/VC count as a restricted position? I recall that one of the candidates was a chaplain, and remember thinking "isn't that a command position?".

National Vice Commander, to me, is the same as Deputy Commander.  One would assume (yeah we know what happens), that the
#2 job is prohibited at every echelon.

He could have been clergy without being a CAP Chaplain - I don't recall - or he could simply have resigned from the Chaplain corps after election and before being sworn.

[Hawk200]

I don't understand why they can't be TCO's, if we can't expect ethical behavior of Chaplains, who else can we trust?

I don't think it's a case of not trusting ethical behaviour, it's that testing is simply outside their realm of responsibility. A chaplain really shouldn't have anything that potentially takes them away from their duties for any period of time.

Of course, that's just my take on it.

But why single out testing officer rather than something really time consuming such as ES officer, Operations Officer, etc?

Don't know. Like I said, it's just my take on it. I don't have all the answers. Maybe a chaplain will chime in, they're input would be pretty valid. Mine's just conjecture.

[DBlair]

This leads me to a question...


Imagine a CAP member who happens to have the required ordination, etc.

He becomes a CAP Chaplain.

Can he (at will) take off his Chaplain hat and be a 'regular' CAP member?

[Hawk200]

This leads me to a question...


Imagine a CAP member who happens to have the required ordination, etc.

He becomes a CAP Chaplain.

Can he (at will) take off his Chaplain hat and be a 'regular' CAP member?

Define 'regular' CAP member.

[JC004]

...
I don't understand why they can't be TCO's, if we can't expect ethical behavior of Chaplains, who else can we trust?

I hate when you go and make a good point.  blast.

I really can't think of a reason.

...
Define 'regular' CAP member.

I guess that's one who is eligible to serve without restriction.

[DBlair]

This leads me to a question...


Imagine a CAP member who happens to have the required ordination, etc.

He becomes a CAP Chaplain.

Can he (at will) take off his Chaplain hat and be a 'regular' CAP member?

Define 'regular' CAP member.

Regular, in this case, meaning non-Chaplain SM.

[JeffDG]

A chunk of the TCO prohibition is that Chaplains are the "go to" people with ethical issues that you might have.  So, if you have an ethical complaint about a CC or TCO, either of which can really mess with advancement, and that person is a Chaplain...where do you go?

[Hawk200]

Regular, in this case, meaning non-Chaplain SM.

It still depends on what they choose to do. They can't be a chaplain, take off the hat and be the squadron CC, then put it back on.

A chaplain could probably hold additional specialty tracks. They could be ES rated too, I knew of one that also had GT and Observer wings (that was back when chaplains could wear three badges, don't think they can do that now).

Some are active on CISM teams, I know the one that used to be in my squadron is the Wing CISM chaplain now.

[DakRadz]

This leads me to a question...


Imagine a CAP member who happens to have the required ordination, etc.

He becomes a CAP Chaplain.

Can he (at will) take off his Chaplain hat and be a 'regular' CAP member?

Define 'regular' CAP member.

Regular, in this case, meaning non-Chaplain SM.

Chaplains who wish to engage in duties incompatible with their role as listed above must withdraw from the Chaplain Corps to do so. After 24 months, a chaplain must re-apply on a new Form 35 and obtain a current ecclesiastical endorsement

This is from Eclipse's first response, he has the reg and such cited above.

[Flying Pig]

This leads me to a question...


Imagine a CAP member who happens to have the required ordination, etc.

He becomes a CAP Chaplain.

Can he (at will) take off his Chaplain hat and be a 'regular' CAP member?

Meaning can they give up their chaplaincy?  Yes.  But its all or nothing.  Not one week to the next.  I would then assume they would go back down to the rank that their time in grade and training would place them.

[Hawk200]

I would then assume they would go back down to the rank that their time in grade and training would place them.

One reason why I encourage people getting special promotions to progress through the standard training. If you've got that, some chains of command may not be concerned so much about your time in grade stuff. Had one member get special promotions, and was under the impression that she would always be a Finance officer, so she didn't need to do so. She chose not to, and she's now inactive. Not sure how it will work if she gets back in.