what hat to wear?

[miles]

I was wondering about headgear for the BDU and blueberry uniforms. Are encampment hats or other activity covers authorized to wear at the squadron/wing/region level? Swear I read once that activity covers were authorized for the specific activity and during the activity only.

[BTCS1*]

The specific activity covers is in regards to blue beret. With the BBDU, any hat is authorized, but with the BDU, only the BDU cover or a squadron cap is authorized.

[JayT]

I was wondering about headgear for the BDU and blueberry uniforms. Are encampment hats or other activity covers authorized to wear at the squadron/wing/region level? Swear I read once that activity covers were authorized for the specific activity and during the activity only.

You're be correct. BDU is authorized patrol cap, baseball cap, squadron cap, and watch cap (I believe). Which blueberry uniform? The DFU is authorized all the same as the BDU's, except you can also go without a cap. The utility uniform is authorized a ball cap, or no cap.

[miles]

The blue version of the BDU.

[miles]

cadets at my squadron wear their encampment covers or covers made for other various events. None of which are national events like hawk mountain or blue beret.

[Eclipse]

cadets at my squadron wear their encampment covers or covers made for other various events. None of which are national events like hawk mountain or blue beret.

That is not authorized outside the specific activity.

[miles]

What is the regulation? where is the regulation? I need to print it out to show them.

[Hawk200]

What is the regulation? where is the regulation? I need to print it out to show them.

It's CAPM 39-1. Download, and dig it out from there.

[Eclipse]

What is the regulation? where is the regulation? I need to print it out to show them.

It's CAPM 39-1. Download, and dig it out from there.

Its important to remember for these types of conversations that in most cases our regulations tell us what we can do, to
the exclusion of anything else, which can be hard for people with no military experience to grasp, since most of the real
world works the other way.

If it doesn't say you can, you can't, and in the case of a conflict of regulation, its best to consult higher HQ.

[lordmonar]

What is the regulation? where is the regulation? I need to print it out to show them.

Show who?

It has been standard practice in many places....even if it skirts the letter of the regulation.....for activities to issue their own hats for the BDU and BBDU.

They do this a NESA and CAWG encampment that I know of for sure.

Wearing them later at the squadron is definitely a faux pas....but some squadrons may allow this (again against regulations).

If you are trying to tell your encampment staff that they can't issue specific hats....I think you are wasting your time. Because A) it is within the spirit of the regulations to get everyone at the activity into a uniform and B) you are going up against a lot of "that's the way it is done" mentality.   When national level activities are allowed to do it....it is very hard to use the "it's not in the regs" argument.

[lordmonar]

What is the regulation? where is the regulation? I need to print it out to show them.

It's CAPM 39-1. Download, and dig it out from there.

Its important to remember for these types of conversations that in most cases our regulations tell us what we can do, to
the exclusion of anything else, which can be hard for people with no military experience to grasp, since most of the real
world works the other way.

If it doesn't say you can, you can't, and in the case of a conflict of regulation, its best to consult higher HQ.

I got to call the BS flag on that.  Military regulations work both ways.....mostly they work on the "that which is not forbidden is permitted" model.

Having said that....even those regulations that say "no deviations or additions allowed" are often deviated and even ignored by commanders and leaders at all levels.

What many REG HOUNDS here at CAPTALK don't understand about the way the military does business is that we spend a lot of time learning when and how to bend/break/ignore regulations.

Happens all the time at all levels of leadership.  If you have about three days I can give you some pertinent examples of what the military (at least the USAF) does about regulations.

[miles]

I have read CAPM 39-1 cover to cover. The only address to headgear was the boonie, NBB, hawk mountain, or designing of a cover. Nothing about appropriate covers to where at the appropriate time. did I miss the rule?

[Eclipse]

Having said that....even those regulations that say "no deviations or additions allowed" are often deviated and even ignored by commanders and leaders at all levels.

What many REG HOUNDS here at CAPTALK don't understand about the way the military does business is that we spend a lot of time learning when and how to bend/break/ignore regulations.

Sadly, there's no way to argue with that because its true, and CAP itself cause the problem.  The only counter to that is rarely do most CAP members find themselves in a position where deviation is necessary for anything but convenience or personal preference, vs. life or property of the members.

Its usually "because I felt like it", "because I didn't feel like actually reading the regs...", and almost always allowed because of lack of enforcement will of higher HQ.

[miles]

I am the ESO for my squadron. I'm using the uniform amendment in 60-3 to create an alternate GT Uniform, part of the uniform is an orange hat. I know that is authorized.

[Eclipse]

I am the ESO for my squadron. I'm using the uniform amendment in 60-3 to create an alternate GT Uniform, part of the uniform is an orange hat. I know that is authorized.

A unit cannot create an "alternate GT uniform" on their own - any supplements must be at the Wing level and approved by NHQ.

The only option would be to have the commander formally designate the orange ball cap as the unit cap, and that may need wing approval (YMMV).

[lordmonar]

Sadly, there's no way to argue with that because its true, and CAP itself cause the problem.  The only counter to that is rarely do most CAP members find themselves in a position where deviation is necessary for anything but convenience or personal preference, vs. life or property of the members.

Its usually "because I felt like it", "because I didn't feel like actually reading the regs...", and almost always allowed because of lack of enforcement will of higher HQ.

Which is true for a majority of USAF violations as well.  Don't hold the USAF up on some pedestal....especially when uniforms are involved.  The USAF has the same sort of "local" deviations from the reg as CAP does.

Everything from ranger rolling their hats, unauthorised patches, unauthorised T-shirts, rolling their flight suit sleeves, crushing their flight caps.....you name something CAP does and I can find a USAF unit that does the same.

You want to argue weight and grooming issues!   Don't go there....because the USAF has the same issues on every base (AD, ANG and AFRES).

Regs are important....don't let me give you the impression that they are not.....but regs are a tool to get the mission done, keep us safe and keep us on the good side of the law.  Beyond that there is a lot of wiggle room.  The ONLY way to eliminate the wiggle room is for higher headquarters to care about it and to establish the trip lines for their subordinates.

This is true for any organisation.

[Hawk200]

Military regulations work both ways.....mostly they work on the "that which is not forbidden is permitted" model.

No, they do not. Especially, since many pubs usually state that any deviations are not authorized. 

It's been demonstrated before how "that which is not forbidden is permitted" is inherently flawed. This idea needs to go away.

[SarDragon]

I have read CAPM 39-1 cover to cover. The only address to headgear was the boonie, NBB, hawk mountain, or designing of a cover. Nothing about appropriate covers to where at the appropriate time. did I miss the rule?

Did you also look at the ICLs? Look at the ones that say uniform in the title.

[jb512]

What is the regulation? where is the regulation? I need to print it out to show them.

It's CAPM 39-1. Download, and dig it out from there.

Its important to remember for these types of conversations that in most cases our regulations tell us what we can do, to
the exclusion of anything else, which can be hard for people with no military experience to grasp, since most of the real
world works the other way.

If it doesn't say you can, you can't, and in the case of a conflict of regulation, its best to consult higher HQ.

I got to call the BS flag on that.  Military regulations work both ways.....mostly they work on the "that which is not forbidden is permitted" model.

From AFI36-2903, Table 1.2:

2.  The omission of a specific item or appearance standard does not automatically permit its wear.

3.  If it is not authorized; it is not authorized for wear.

[Al Sayre]

I was wondering about headgear for the BDU and blueberry uniforms. Are encampment hats or other activity covers authorized to wear at the squadron/wing/region level? Swear I read once that activity covers were authorized for the specific activity and during the activity only.

You're be correct. BDU is authorized patrol cap, baseball cap, squadron cap, and watch cap (I believe). Which blueberry uniform? The DFU is authorized all the same as the BDU's, except you can also go without a cap. The utility uniform is authorized a ball cap, or no cap.

Blue boonie hat is also authorized for BBDU's