Poll-Chaplains in CAP

[Major Lord]

OK.  I am getting more than a little irritated by this.  What other well-established position in CAP would you dare to start a poll concerning whether or not that position is really needed?

Well, why doesn't someone start a poll about mission pilots?  Couldn't CAP train the local flying club to fly grids?

What about Inspector General?  Couldn't/shouldn't CAP have an outside law firm on retainer to handle legal issues?

Heck, what about Group, Wing and Region Commanders?  They just push paper along anyway.

Now, I am not seriously thinking that any of the above positions are unimportant.  I would not want to see any of them eliminated.  But somehow, it seems like it is okay to whip up on the Chaplain Corps?  Frankly, I am offended by the poll.

Bill,

My purpose in starting the poll was not intended as a referendum on whether we should euthanize the Chaplain Corp! I noticed what appeared to be a very strong anti-Christian sentiment on this board, and since the Chaplain discussion arose in another thread, I wanted to see if I could get a better picture of how the members at large ( in this highly opinionated board) thought of the Chaplaincy. The Poll shows overwhelming support, but also reflects a lot of hard feelings, especially it would appear from atheists, and to a lesser degree from members who have (allegedly) seen Chaplains overstep. The poll just asks for opinions, not input on regulatory construction. There is nothing as adults we cannot discuss, and I think the Chaplain program should listen to these types of expressions, instead of just expressing indignation that we would dare even question the value and limitations of the Chaplain Corp ( some of my best friends are Chaplains)

I would not be offended if someone asked if we need Ground Teams anymore. There are sound arguments for leaving SAR to others. A poll taking the temperature of the members would probably result in overwhelming support for keeping Ground Teams, but we would be imprudent to ignore any valid concerns arising from the anti-Ground Team members, even if they seem silly, bigoted, or specious, since it reflects on our ability to communicate the importance of our jobs.

Major Lord

[lordmonar]

I would reassess the "mission critical" designation.

I can't do a mission with out an airplane....but I don't need a Mission Chaplain to complete the mission.

[Chappie]

I would reassess the "mission critical" designation.

I can't do a mission with out an airplane....but I don't need a Mission Chaplain to complete the mission.

"Mission critical" does depend on the context.   For a cadet struggling at an encampment, their "mission" is to complete the week -- they know they need that event to be eligible for the Mitchell award.   For a commander or an activity director, his or her mission is to "herd the cats" -- that is to guide the members to the desired objectives.  They may not need an airplane to accomplish that task, but in my 14 years as a CAP Chaplain I have yet to be told by one commander (Squadron-Group-Wing-Region-Encampment/SLS-CLC-RSC-NSC Director) that my services were neither needed or appreciated.   Maybe we should change the title from "Chaplain" to "Commander's Assistant Cat Herder" -- that might be a little less offensive to some on this board

[Tater]

Just to throw in a little real-life operational experience related to chaplains - I was standing next to a chaplain when he made the first phone calls to families to notify them that there was a good chance their loved ones, an aircrew that was killed during a search, were not coming home.  That was one tough moment handled by one tough chaplain and done with a firm gentleness that was inspiring.

And speaking of inspiring, our chaplain served us well for 29 years.  He is gone now, and missed terribly.  The guy was always there and willing to do anything to help out.  Chappie put it well as to the duties of a chaplain and provided perhaps a more descriptive attribution.  I would put it differently as the role relates to the rank and file.  In my experience "friend" is a good name.  He is the one guy whose job it is to be your friend.  I reckon a good example of a good chaplain can be gleaned from his legacy.  Lt Col Tim Spiller was our chaplain.  He spoke at our last Dining Out, was honored with a fini flight on his retirement, and when he passed away 4 months later, the blue suits that turned out for his service at Riverside National Cemetery said it all.  A fly over of T-34's that included a CAP member, a Marine Corp Honor Guard that included a CAP member and former Wing CC's on down in attendance.  This link goes to a tribute (previously posted on CAPTalk) that a member did for Tim when he retired.

   http://sq5.cawg.cap.gov/TimTribute.html

So if the response of those he served is any indication of the "value" of the man and the role, I guess this answers that.

[davidsinn]

I'm not voting because my answer isn't there. I think the Chaplains are invaluable for us because they take care of our people but that we can accomplish the mission without them although not as effectively in some circumstances.

In the other thread I was arguing against religion in CAP. I'm sure some got the idea that I'm atheist. I'm not. I was married by a Chaplain in service dress. I'm Christian but I feel religion should not directly be in this organization such as opening prayers for normal meetings and what not. However I welcome the Chaplains because their regs allow them to support our people without stepping on other peoples beliefs. We've all heard horror stories about that one Chaplain that did that one thing and ran off somebody. That's the exception, not the rule and is frowned upon by the other Chaplains. I don't want the Chaplains proselytizing but I have no problem with them quietly counseling someone that needs or wants it or offering a prayer off to the side before a mission, and that's the way 99.5% of them act.

[DogCollar]

I am calmer now after hours of prayer and doing other stuff.  Perhaps I overreacted a little yesterday. 

Major Lord, I do realize that your purpose for starting the poll was to take the pulse, and that you meant no harm.  It's just that whenever the subject of Chaplaincy arises the discussion becomes passionately subjective on both sides.  I feel like I have tried to present the Chaplain Corps realistically to the members reading the posts.  I have acknowledged that there are chaplains in CAP who operate against regulations governing the Chaplain Corps Code of Ethics and that it is the commanders responsibility to intervene in those cases.  But, the are a very small minority of Chaplains!  Alas, the behavior of a tiny minority has been so powerfully offensive to some that all Chaplains get painted with the same broad stroke.  I guess that is what pushes my buttons more than anything.

My concern regarding the poll is that it offers ammunition to persons with specific agendas on both sides of the "divide," and reality becomes obscured by those who criticize Chaplains for being TO involved in CAP matters, and those who criticize Chaplains for not being religious enough.  Somewhere in the middle is a very powerful reality.  That being that Chaplains are offering, first and foremost, a ministry of time and presence to those who are vulnerable or in some distress or crisis. 

[davidsinn]

That being that Chaplains are offering, first and foremost, a ministry of time and presence to those who are vulnerable or in some distress or crisis.

You guys are volunteers too. That needs remembering by all.

[Chappie]

That being that Chaplains are offering, first and foremost, a ministry of time and presence to those who are vulnerable or in some distress or crisis.

You guys are volunteers too. That needs remembering by all.

Ahh...so that explains the years of missing checks that never arrived from Montgomery, Alabama