Quote from: ProdigalJim on December 10, 2016, 10:05:26 PM
You know, the longer this goes on the madder it makes me. Right now it is 33 deg F outside my window. In places like Traverse City, MI, it's 20 deg F. Vanguard knew this transition was coming, it was announced many months ago, and they STILL can't produce the correct insignia for the Sage ABU Fleece.

"But that's OK, we have a waiver that says we can still wear the old outergarments."

Yeah, that's great. That's the right answer. Now we can just continue to look bad until, well, until whenever.

I won't complain along the lines of "why isn't NHQ doing something" because neither I, nor any other member, really know whether and what NHQ is doing about it at all. But from the perspective of a member out here running a squadron -- you know, what our leaders like to call "The Heart Of CAP" -- I see no evidence that Vanguard is being held accountable.

And it sucks.

You might consider wearing long-sleeved thermal and sleep shirt under your ABU.  That's warmer than a long-sleeved t-shirt, ABU shirt, and fleece jacket.  The downside is you can't quickly shed a layer.  However, out of the public eye, wearing the sleep shirt as outer layer is often permitted in the AF. 

Quote from: SarDragon on December 11, 2016, 02:21:15 AM
If it doesn't say CAP, Civil Air Patrol, or any of the IP protected insignia, it's fair game.

If someone else is doing the correct color blue two-inch square hook-and-loop insignia, I'm in.

Vanguard can go suck eggs.

Quote from: ProdigalJim on December 10, 2016, 10:05:26 PM
You know, the longer this goes on the madder it makes me. Right now it is 33 deg F outside my window. In places like Traverse City, MI, it's 20 deg F. Vanguard knew this transition was coming, it was announced many months ago, and they STILL can't produce the correct insignia for the Sage ABU Fleece.

"But that's OK, we have a waiver that says we can still wear the old outergarments."

Yeah, that's great. That's the right answer. Now we can just continue to look bad until, well, until whenever.

I won't complain along the lines of "why isn't NHQ doing something" because neither I, nor any other member, really know whether and what NHQ is doing about it at all. But from the perspective of a member out here running a squadron -- you know, what our leaders like to call "The Heart Of CAP" -- I see no evidence that Vanguard is being held accountable.

And it sucks.

Jim, I hear ya. But, don't let the fashion sense issue affect your units self image as a "Can-DO" type of organization.
Wear whatever is authorized and lets you perform excellently.

Fashion sense is for the effete, not the effective.





V/r
Spam

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 04:08:00 AM
You might consider wearing long-sleeved thermal and sleep shirt under your ABU.  That's warmer than a long-sleeved t-shirt, ABU shirt, and fleece jacket.  The downside is you can't quickly shed a layer.  However, out of the public eye, wearing the sleep shirt as outer layer is often permitted in the AF.

Cite!!! not authorized...

Quote from: Spam on December 11, 2016, 05:23:24 AM

Quote from: ProdigalJim on December 10, 2016, 10:05:26 PM
You know, the longer this goes on the madder it makes me. Right now it is 33 deg F outside my window. In places like Traverse City, MI, it's 20 deg F. Vanguard knew this transition was coming, it was announced many months ago, and they STILL can't produce the correct insignia for the Sage ABU Fleece.

"But that's OK, we have a waiver that says we can still wear the old outergarments."

Yeah, that's great. That's the right answer. Now we can just continue to look bad until, well, until whenever.

I won't complain along the lines of "why isn't NHQ doing something" because neither I, nor any other member, really know whether and what NHQ is doing about it at all. But from the perspective of a member out here running a squadron -- you know, what our leaders like to call "The Heart Of CAP" -- I see no evidence that Vanguard is being held accountable.

And it sucks.

Jim, I hear ya. But, don't let the fashion sense issue affect your units self image as a "Can-DO" type of organization.
Wear whatever is authorized and lets you perform excellently.

Fashion sense is for the effete, not the effective.





V/r
Spam

Roger that. I don't, and I won't.

It's the principle of it that bugs me. Vanguard is just so plain unreliable and inconsistent, and seemingly we have very little recourse. This is hardly the most serious of Vanguard sins...not by a long shot. I dunno, there's just something about the flailing around to meet a basic requirement (they knew for months this was coming) that just sets me off.

Sometimes you can't really explain what pops your top...

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 11, 2016, 05:27:13 AM

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 04:08:00 AM
You might consider wearing long-sleeved thermal and sleep shirt under your ABU.  That's warmer than a long-sleeved t-shirt, ABU shirt, and fleece jacket.  The downside is you can't quickly shed a layer.  However, out of the public eye, wearing the sleep shirt as outer layer is often permitted in the AF.

Cite!!! not authorized...

Are you not aware of the authorization to wear sleep shirts under the ABU?   Or, are you arguing that some AF units don't have pretty liberal interpretations of permitted sleep shirt wear?

I'm curious why you felt the need for multiple exclamation points.  Confidence in your uniform regulation knowledge is misplaced.

Cite?  How about the October 24th ABU update?  Or, the July 7th update.

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 07:00:26 AM
Are you not aware of the authorization to wear sleep shirts under the ABU?   Or, are you arguing that some AF units don't have pretty liberal interpretations of permitted sleep shirt wear?

I'm curious why you felt the need for multiple exclamation points.  Confidence in your uniform regulation knowledge is misplaced.

I am far more versed in uniform regulations than you are.  Especially AFI36-2903.  It authorizes the wear of the sleep shirt but AF members are not authorized to wear it with an ABU top removed.  But coming from a member who willing breaks our own uniform reg it's not surprising you think the AF takes the same approach, guess what they don't. 

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 11, 2016, 07:10:24 AM

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 07:00:26 AM
Are you not aware of the authorization to wear sleep shirts under the ABU?   Or, are you arguing that some AF units don't have pretty liberal interpretations of permitted sleep shirt wear?

I'm curious why you felt the need for multiple exclamation points.  Confidence in your uniform regulation knowledge is misplaced.

I am far more versed in uniform regulations than you are.  Especially AFI36-2903.  It authorizes the wear of the sleep shirt but AF members are not authorized to wear it with an ABU top removed.  But coming from a member who willing breaks our own uniform reg it's not surprising you think the AF takes the same approach, guess what they don't.

I said that it is "often permitted", which is the case.  I didn't claim it was authorized.

What is your [redacted] problem? What wing puts up with your [mess]?

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 07:16:10 AM

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 11, 2016, 07:10:24 AM

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 07:00:26 AM
Are you not aware of the authorization to wear sleep shirts under the ABU?   Or, are you arguing that some AF units don't have pretty liberal interpretations of permitted sleep shirt wear?

I'm curious why you felt the need for multiple exclamation points.  Confidence in your uniform regulation knowledge is misplaced.

I am far more versed in uniform regulations than you are.  Especially AFI36-2903.  It authorizes the wear of the sleep shirt but AF members are not authorized to wear it with an ABU top removed.  But coming from a member who willing breaks our own uniform reg it's not surprising you think the AF takes the same approach, guess what they don't.

I said the it is "often permitted", which is the case. 

What is your [redacted] problem?

Again cite..  and trying to circumvent the filters is a no-no.

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 11, 2016, 07:20:17 AM

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 07:16:10 AM

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 11, 2016, 07:10:24 AM

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 07:00:26 AM
Are you not aware of the authorization to wear sleep shirts under the ABU?   Or, are you arguing that some AF units don't have pretty liberal interpretations of permitted sleep shirt wear?

I'm curious why you felt the need for multiple exclamation points.  Confidence in your uniform regulation knowledge is misplaced.

I am far more versed in uniform regulations than you are.  Especially AFI36-2903.  It authorizes the wear of the sleep shirt but AF members are not authorized to wear it with an ABU top removed.  But coming from a member who willing breaks our own uniform reg it's not surprising you think the AF takes the same approach, guess what they don't.

I said the it is "often permitted", which is the case. 

What is your [redacted] problem?

Again cite..  and trying to circumvent the filters is a no-no.

That was automated, I didn't hold back.  Behind closed doors, regulations are not followed. This is one that is often not followed.  Of course, you already know that.  You appear to know everything.

I'm curious, what wing has to put up with your [mess]?  Please tell me.

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 07:21:33 AM

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 11, 2016, 07:20:17 AM

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 07:16:10 AM

Quote from: abdsp51 on December 11, 2016, 07:10:24 AM

Quote from: Damron on December 11, 2016, 07:00:26 AM
Are you not aware of the authorization to wear sleep shirts under the ABU?   Or, are you arguing that some AF units don't have pretty liberal interpretations of permitted sleep shirt wear?

I'm curious why you felt the need for multiple exclamation points.  Confidence in your uniform regulation knowledge is misplaced.

I am far more versed in uniform regulations than you are.  Especially AFI36-2903.  It authorizes the wear of the sleep shirt but AF members are not authorized to wear it with an ABU top removed.  But coming from a member who willing breaks our own uniform reg it's not surprising you think the AF takes the same approach, guess what they don't.

I said the it is "often permitted", which is the case. 

What is your [farg]ing problem?

Again cite..  and trying to circumvent the filters is a no-no.

That was automated, I didn't hold back.  Behind closed doors, regulations are not followed. This is one that is often not followed.  Of course, you already know that.  You appear to know everything.

I'm curious, what wing has to put up with your [mess]?  Please tell me.

My mess?  I'd be more worried about YOUR wing dealing with YOUR MESS.. 

You have no cite,  you have nothing to back up your assertations.  So until you do stay in your lane of CAP and quit try to speak about what the AF does or doesn't do.  And with that I'm out... [mic drop].

Questions asked, and answered.

Click. PMs sent.