I haven't worn blues yet, but I have them set up with my Master Personnel badge, AF Maintenance badge, and my military ribbons. I'm currently slotted as an ES officer, and may wear the badge once I earn it. I haven't decided yet. Depends on whether or not I feel like making the order.

On my shirt, I wear mini wings only.  I will probably buy a mini GT badge when I order more stuff from The Official Supplier, Whose Name Is So Sacred It Dare Not Be Spoken.

On my blue jacket, I wear all 20 ribbons (10 CAP, 8 Military, 2 Foreign) plus my full size GT badge and full size wings.  I skip wearing the silly qualification badges.  I have the Leaderhip Ribbon and a master rating in Public Affairs, but...

I'm a pilot, so that trumps all other badges!

(He stood there, holding a martini in his hand, and smiled.  He knew the tropical sun was gleaming off of his silver pilot wings.  His service cap, at a rakish angle, telegraphed to The Raven-Haired Beauty that this was no ordinary CAP officer.  She swung her hips seductively as she walked across the tile floor toward him.  "I see you're a pilot, she said.  I LOVE men who fly...")

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on May 02, 2007, 04:53:03 AM[bits redacted] I'm a pilot, so that trumps all other badges!

(He stood there, holding a martini in his hand, and smiled.  He knew the tropical sun was gleaming off of his silver pilot wings.  His service cap, at a rakish angle, telegraphed to The Raven-Haired Beauty that this was no ordinary CAP officer.  She swung her hips seductively as she walked across the tile floor toward him.  "I see you're a pilot, she said.  I LOVE men who fly...")

My sweetie is officially pissed at you now. I woke her up laughing at that.

Don't have a rated specialty soooo... I don't wear a specialty track badge. I wear my rack, CIB, Senior Parachutist,  GT Badge.

The problem comes in when looking at the regulations. Parachutist wings are treated as an aviation badge. This puts them at the top. CAP GT badges are to be worn above the ribbons. CIB doesn't fit on the pocket. Therefore, I wear the GT on the pocket. CIB above the ribbons, Wings above that. I could be wrong but...

Quote from: Sgt. Savage on May 02, 2007, 12:16:49 PM
The problem comes in when looking at the regulations. Parachutist wings are treated as an aviation badge. This puts them at the top. CAP GT badges are to be worn above the ribbons. CIB doesn't fit on the pocket. Therefore, I wear the GT on the pocket. CIB above the ribbons, Wings above that. I could be wrong but...

Yep, you are really wrong. 

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
A maximum of four earned badges may be worn on all blue service uniforms. A maximum of two badges are worn on the left side of the uniform above ribbons, or welt of pocket if ribbons are not worn.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1Specialty Insignia (Chaplain, Legal, Medical, EMT, GroundTeam)
Men: centered 1/2 inch above the left breast pocket or 1/2 inch above ribbons.

So you have 3 "badges" above the ribbons instead of 2, and the one you wear on the pocket isn't supposed to be.

Just out of curiosity, what is the "but...?"

I wouldn't say REALLY wrong. I only wear a total of three badges. After reflecting on the specifics, my BDU's are ok, I need to take the GT off of my Blues. Minor.

The but was.... it can be changed, it isn't the end of the world, I've been wrong before, whatever it needs to mean.

This is where that 3 categories of badges comes in...
These can only be worn in the two slots over the ribbons, pick to the exclusion of the rest:
1) Aviation badges (CAP or mil)
2) Qualification badges (airbone, AF spec badges, CAP legal/medical, etc)

These can only be worn on the pocket & over above the name:
3) CAP specialty track badges, mil duty badges

NOTES:
a) by convention, combat badges can take precedent over air ratings, even if you got combat jumps.
b) These are the rules for the service coat. They are slightly different for the shirt, and slight different again for the white shirt. Any moron would tell you it makes sense to standardize that a bit.

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on May 02, 2007, 04:53:03 AM
I'm a pilot, so that trumps all other badges!

You're still a good guy, in spite of this evident handicap!

Quote from: DNall on May 02, 2007, 06:55:14 PM
... pick to the exclusion of the rest:

I know this sounds crazy to throw this caveat in there, but I still run into people that believe it.

That's two badges to the exclusion of others, on each individual uniform.

Example: A member has an Air Force specialty badge, and jump wings; also the member has earned a Ground Team badge, and observer wings. The max he may wear on a uniform is any two. If he wears his AF badge and jump wings on one (say a blue shirt) , he may still wear the GT badge and observer badge on another (BDU's, for example). If the individual so desires, he could wear jump wings and observer badge on a uniform, or any combination of two from the four he is authorized.

I've run into people, for some reason, that think that an individual can only wear only certain badges (such as AF specialty badge and jump wings) on all uniforms. That they have to pick two, and can only wear those two on any uniform they wear (some even think that if you have CAP badges you can't wear military ones ). The exclusion means per uniform, not all uniforms. I know, it's crazy, but some people believe it.

That's certainly true, and very much what I intend to do. I'm not going to wear ribbons with the shirt, so at least one will be a mil badge, but will wear mil ribbons on the service coat, so maybe just the CAP badges there. And yeah, mix it up between varrious BDU sets depending on costs.

I would also think that if you have ratings in different specialties, you might wear the different badges on different occasions.  For instance, while performing your duties as Safety Officer you would wear your safety rating.  However, if you're teaching a class about Professional Development, you would wear that badge.

There are limits, but you have options within those limits.

One of the problems comes in when looking at the AFI regarding badges. On AF style uniforms , you can wear a third Misc. badge on the left pocket. This is reflected in 39-1 which says regarding table 6-5 "1. Badges are worn in the same position as they are worn on the Air Force uniform. If a CAP badge is
worn in the same position, the member must choose one to the exclusion of the other."

That having been said, I am compliant if I wear a military badge on my pocket, regardless of the uniform. I can't wear a CAP badge on my pocket.

Yet another contradiction from 39-1.

I'm not real sure about that on the AFI. It specifically states where to put certain types of badges (specialty & qual), which leaves duty badges & stuff like CC badge as misc. I don't think you can wear any mil badge you want on the pocket. I'm not going to go quoting regs at you though.

What I'd tell you is you should be proud of your accomplishments & it's fine to display them within professional limits. Just pick two appropriate for the situation & move on. Put the GT on your BDUs for mission identification, & leave it off the blues if you like. That's probably what I'd do.

I'd warn you also that if they ever update 39-1 then authorization for the CIB will go away, per the AFI. The only reason it's okay now is it's in that chart that's based off the old AFI.

Quote from: DNall on May 03, 2007, 06:02:53 PM
I'd warn you also that if they ever update 39-1 then authorization for the CIB will go away, per the AFI. The only reason it's okay now is it's in that chart that's based off the old AFI.

It seems to me (and I was never in military) that CIB (as well as any other insignia recognizing service in combat, from any of the armed services) ought to be permitted, and if necessary NB should enact a change to 39-1 to allow this..

I understand it strays from the AF style, but given the number of our members that are combat veterans, i strongly believe their service should be recognized by CAP, in uniform.

Quote from: DNall on May 03, 2007, 06:02:53 PM
I'd warn you also that if they ever update 39-1 then authorization for the CIB will go away, per the AFI. The only reason it's okay now is it's in that chart that's based off the old AFI.

If that happens, I'll lobby to bring it back. That's a slap in the face to the combat vets by the Air Force, unless they adopt the same policy the Marine Corps has with it's Combat Action ribbon. If they don't, and only award the Air Force ribbons to airmen that have seen combat, it's gonna raise some royal Hades (and I'll carry a banner myself, even though I don't have any combat awards.)

I wouldn't worry about mil badges going away. Our SMSGT just got his CAB approved by national as it is included in the AFI but not 39-1. All non- AF mil badges that they authorize fall under the MISC. category. It provides for wearing them IAW the AFI and in the positions they authorize. In reality, I don't worry about any of it too much. Makes for good conversaton and seems to motivate cadets to push themselves a little harder and be a little better.

Eventually, I hope to replace a badge with a specialty track.

I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but the newest AFI changed it from perm award to only while assigned to & on duty with Army units. That took stuff like CIBs off a lot of AF personnel (particularly TACP, PJs, CCT, etc) that earned it fair & square, plus of course prior-service. When 39-1 is updated, it will have to comply with that & CAP will have no say in the matter.

CAP doesn't have any choice but to follow the AFI as the AF interprets it. CAP is then allowed to add CAP-specific items as approved by the AF, and that's it. We don't have any control over what mil badges may or may not be worn on our uniforms, and never will.

DNall,

A question occurs to me: how is the AFI treating non-AF issue flight qualifications (i.e., wings?)

There is a fundamental philosophical question here: the USAF gives wings precedence over anything and everything else.

In reality (and I will grant you it is not exact equivaleency), a basic aeronautical rating is analogous to the Army "Expert Infantry Badge" (do they still have that badge?) -- which is to say, demonstrating competence in performing the fundamental functions of the individual's primary military role.

A CIB states that the individual has actually satisfactorily served in
that role in combat.

If the Combat Action Ribbon substitutes, so be it....but other posts seem to indicate that in USAF circles this award is available only for AF combat service.

This is an unacceptable answer.

I believe what you say; I simply agree with the poster (Hawk?) who said we'll simply have to advocate for a change.

CAP probably won't be able to bring this about alone....however, I bet we would have little difficulty getting veterans organizations' on board.

Quote from: ZigZag911 on May 04, 2007, 04:33:19 PM
A question occurs to me: how is the AFI treating non-AF issue flight qualifications (i.e., wings?)

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but aeronautical ratings are covered in a whole seperate reg & that comes with it's own wierdness.

I doesn't really matter what you or I think, cause the AF decides & they were very clear when they specifically deauthorized this stuff in the newest reg (believe that's 2003). So they got a new ribbon now like the navy/marines that we can't trade in for as CAP members, that really doesn't effect us.

There is & will be no public outcry from vetrans groups or anyone else cause it impacts such a SMALL number of people. That's just the way it is. If you think you have some influence with the AF, be my guest. All CAP can do is NOT update the reg so that chart in the back remains the rule for now.

Dennis:

I live near a USAF base, and I see a handful of USAF folks who were former Army still wearing their CIB's.  It must either still be authorized as a prior service award, or there is an open rebellion going on.