I've been trying to figure out why CAP does not conduct wear tests in the field for new uniforms/uniform items.  It would be a lot better than what CAP currently does, which is to introduce new uniforms/uniform items with little to no input from the members.  Plus, it would also put CAP more in line with the Air Force, which always conducts wear tests.

Does anyone know why wear tests aren't conducted by CAP? 

Quote from: 12211985 on April 03, 2007, 06:30:41 PM
Does anyone know why wear tests aren't conducted by CAP? 

CAP has done some test wear programs in the past.  Not many though.  It was costly to do so.

Honestly Smitty, how many user accounts are you going to create?

In the case of the TPU, Gen Pineda was the wear test.  We typically don't see uniform changes as rapid-fire as they have been, so wear testing wasn't really an issue.

If you think about the pre-Pineda changes made over the last 10-15 years, well, there weren't many.  The new service coat was handed down from the USAF, where it was wear tested extensively.  Other minor changes (like adding C/SMSgt and C/CMSgt) didn't really need wear tests.

It's a different story nowadays, since they apparently feel compelled to make a uniform change every 53 days.

Until recently, the majority of our uniforms were USAF with the only difference being insignia. Therefore, there was no need to wear test since it was all done by USAF.

The other issue is that we don't have people who wear the uniform daily (except some of the folks at NHQ) as does USAF so only wearing it to meetings once a week doesnt really make it a true wear test.

Quote from: justin_bailey on April 03, 2007, 06:38:37 PM
Honestly Smitty, how many user accounts are you going to create?

NO WAY!  SMITTY AGAIN?  Well THAT explains the "IP" topic on Cadetstuff.  Man....we need a dose of "Forum Valtrex" every so often to control the Smitty flare ups......

Wear test per-se wouldn't be the best strategy anyway. We're not testing comfort & durability after all (that can be done at NHQ), we're looking for input from the field on appearance... so, the best way to go is a bunch of pictures on the website with a good description, the justification bullets, potential costs & phase in periods, then ask for comments. That's easy & cheap. It would head off alot of these complaints & frustration in the field that contribte to retention problems. And just in general raise morale.

That's an excellent idea, DNall.

Depending on the change, a limited wear test can be had by having a couple Wing staffers wear the change to a Wing conference, and gather feedback from members there.

The evolution of the TPU proves that the "just shove it out there and worry about changes later" method isn't a good idea.  A lot of volunteer's money was wasted on metal rank insignia for flight caps, etc.

Quote from: justin_bailey on April 03, 2007, 08:42:41 PM
Depending on the change, a limited wear test can be had by having a couple Wing staffers wear the change to a Wing conference, and gather feedback from members there.

That's a good idea too. I believe they've done some of that before, but then just gone ahead & made the decision from there. Most people at NHQ aren't actually CAP members, and the ones that are tend not to wear a uniform to work. But they could do a some wear testing there, as well as have a couple on display at conferences. Then provide those comments on the website as well. I mean if it looks great & then ends up feeling terrible then I'm not going to be happy. So leave that website up with the proposal & take comments for 30 days, then put it to the committee to consider & then to NB for a vote. That's just the right way to do things.

The USAF is our wear testers.

As to the forum member - he popped up here, cs & the mil forums, rapid fire..

Quote from: justin_bailey on April 03, 2007, 08:42:41 PM
A lot of volunteer's money was wasted on metal rank insignia for flight caps, etc.

Not really a waste, but an investment in the TPU coat, right?

You want a TPU coat, don't you?  Of course you do!

Beware the black van. . . . . . . .

Quote from: Eclipse on April 03, 2007, 09:34:29 PM
The USAF is our wear testers.

They don't test a change (like adding "US" on our branch tape) for member input. That's what the AF does when they consider a new item is do their homework & make sure the theory really works.

A lot of the problems with this stuff is springing it on members w/o notice. Most times you can do something people don't like & they'll go along w/ little complaint if you'll just tell them why you're doing it & listen for a little while.

Considering the complete lack of cost to do the idea mentioned, meassured against overall morale & retention issues, I can't see how it could reasonablly be refused.

Military wear testing doesn't always work very well -- The Coast Guard's new version of the BDU has received pretty universal disdain for comfort, usability, and durability.  I would love it if they had a hot-weather fabric and buttons on the pockets instead of velcro. 

As to CAP, most of the issues on this board relate to what is put on the uniform rather than the uniform itself.  Although I could see doing some testing of corporate uniforms.   

Word on the street is that new ODUs are coming in '08 and have been in wear testing for some time now.

Quote from: MIKE on April 04, 2007, 02:58:18 PM
Word on the street is that new ODUs are coming in '08 and have been in wear testing for some time now.

Interesting RUMINT.  ODUs as in the ol' solid greens for CAP to replace the BDUs?

We've been wearing navy blue ODU's for a while now.  They're just making them more BDU like.
Going untucked for one, will probably be a blessing to most Coxn's who own facilities.  No gelcoat scratches from your belt buckle when leaning over things. 

Quote from: Pylon on April 04, 2007, 03:22:54 PM

Quote from: MIKE on April 04, 2007, 02:58:18 PM
Word on the street is that new ODUs are coming in '08 and have been in wear testing for some time now.

Interesting RUMINT.  ODUs as in the ol' solid greens for CAP to replace the BDUs?

No, ODUs as in Operational Dress Uniform.  The blue BDU-like uniform worn by the USCG.  I was referring to RiverAux's comments about this uniform.

Just curious since we're drifting... is the new version going to work for our BBDU or is it still too dif?

Still no lower pockets IIRC... Supposed to have some sort of CG logos on it too.  I would not expect them to be readily available for your average CAP member anyway.

I was thinking more in terms of some members being able to do double duty with the pants, but that's too bad on the blouses (I think we all have some connections on the real dark side). Do the service dress pants cross over too or is that a totally dif fabric?

They are a different shade and weave.  In fact, the AUXMAN prohibits wear of the AF trousers with the Auxiliary uniform.