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CAP Talk  |  Recent Posts
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 1 
 on: Today at 02:20:30 PM 
Started by DadOscarMike - Last post by TheSkyHornet
We are not an activity club nor a babysitting group. If you want to join, or you want your son/daughter to join, fill out the application, pay the fee, and get on the roster.

"here is our membership timeline for joining this cycle..."

Not that we do corhort recruiting or anything.

 :clap: *bows to the master*

I still pass out your resources from time to time to keep everyone fresh on the cohort process.

I'm a stickler for "have a plan; give me a timeline." Do you know when your next group begins? No? Why not? Oh, in two months. Guess what: you missed the deadline for having it planned out.

And do not be afraid to tell someone "This might not be the program for you..."

 2 
 on: Today at 02:09:10 PM 
Started by DadOscarMike - Last post by NIN
We are not an activity club nor a babysitting group. If you want to join, or you want your son/daughter to join, fill out the application, pay the fee, and get on the roster.

"here is our membership timeline for joining this cycle..."

Not that we do corhort recruiting or anything.

 3 
 on: Today at 01:55:42 PM 
Started by GaryVC - Last post by Eclipse
So back to the matter of Encampment in particular, I guess the Encampment Commander would not have the authority to issue those ribbons. So the questions persists: Why did cadets walk away from Encampment two years ago with Encampment ribbons but not in the past two years? Did the Encampment Commanders then overstep and present awards they were not authorized to present?

Inconsistency.

Inconsistency in the execution of the Encampment Program from Wing to Wing?   

Blasphemy!  Blunderbuss' from hot air balloons at dawn!



In all seriousness, the certification comes from the CAP-USAF (until about 2013) and now the Encampment CC,
the issuance of the ribbon itself is a technicality of poorly written regulations which don't jive with the actual
program.  Some encampments included the actual ribbon with a certificate as a value-add, some didn't.
It's $100 some encampments didn't/don't have to spend.

 4 
 on: Today at 01:54:17 PM 
Started by DadOscarMike - Last post by TheSkyHornet
For clarity sake, I think we need to distinguish between "cadet" (someone who's application has been accepted by the Commander and sent on to higher HQ for processing), and a "prospective cadet/recruit" (someone who is "exploring" Civil Air Patrol and has not yet submitted an application or the application has not yet been accepted by the Commander for approval).

A prospect who shows up in Week 2 and Week 3, but cannot attend Week 4 or Week 1 of the next month should be able to come back in Week 2 of that month. But you really need to watch them lingering.

We had a case where this gentleman would drop his grandchildren off to "explore CAP" and wander off. Irresponsibility aside, they aren't members. They were showing up A LOT. We explained to them that when whoever showed up to pick them up, have them come in and chat with us. Mom: "Yeah, grandpa does that." Ugh.

I've seen before where a unit permitted prospects to show up and "hang out" for nearly two months before they actually submitted applications. The Commander said it was fine, and so it shall be, right? "They aren't comfortable committing yet, and we don't want to scare them away."

We are not an activity club nor a babysitting group. If you want to join, or you want your son/daughter to join, fill out the application, pay the fee, and get on the roster.


 5 
 on: Today at 01:46:20 PM 
Started by GaryVC - Last post by TheSkyHornet
This goes back to the should versus is, I suppose.

Again, inconsistent.

If the regulations say only those awards may be initiated and approved at that echelon, then that's that. In OHWG, the Wing Commander has delegated authority to Group and Squadron Commanders to approve service ribbons at their level.

So back to the matter of Encampment in particular, I guess the Encampment Commander would not have the authority to issue those ribbons. So the questions persists: Why did cadets walk away from Encampment two years ago with Encampment ribbons but not in the past two years? Did the Encampment Commanders then overstep and present awards they were not authorized to present?

Inconsistency.

I've had this issue with Red Service Ribbons. Who has one? Who doesn't? This is, by far, the most "forgotten" award I've seen. Some people had it without their personnel file (hard copy) reflecting it. Some people didn't have one at all. People from other squadrons who transferred in didn't have them.

We appointed a dedicated Personnel Officer a few months ago, and he's working to try and get the files organized to figure out what's what, but it's not an easy task to go through the regulations and each person's electronic and paper files to figure out who has what and what is missing. Not to mention asking people in general: "What ribbons do you have?" I'm at the point where I say just bring in your ribbon rack, and we're going to run through a checklist to tick off what you have and what you should have. Then, we'll start working on the paperwork (expect a flood of emails, Group CC :P ). It's so hard to catch up, though. The mess just continues to roll over.


 6 
 on: Today at 01:45:00 PM 
Started by DadOscarMike - Last post by Eclipse
Quote from: CAPR 39-2 Civil Air Patrol Membership
2.2.8. Prospective cadets visiting a traditional unit must participate in a trial period by attending three squadron meetings before requesting membership. Unit commanders will not approve membership applications (online or in paper form) until the prospective cadet has attended his or her third squadron meeting. Commanders of school-sponsored units possessing an 800-series charter number will set a trial period appropriate for that school unitís program environment, in coordination with the school principal. Prospective cadets may not explore CAP without joining for longer than 30 days.

In other words, they must complete their three visits within one month, not "at least" one month.

I don't think that is what it says, or at least that's not the intention.

There are any number of reasons why a prospective cadet may not be able to attend three concurrent meetings,
many outside the recruit's control - a last-minute cancellation, some pre-planned activity that a non-member cannot
attend like a SAREx, encampment, or similar, or even the occasional "I have band that night" situation as would be afforded
to a member.

The above is intended to prevent situations as we have seen in the relatively recent past here on CT and elsewhere
where a cadet is inexplicably allowed to participate without joining for months or even in an apparent extreme case, for years.

I can't begin to imagine that the above was intended to require 3 concurrent meetings, nor that missing a meeting on
day 30 outside a cadet's control resets the clock on joining.

 7 
 on: Today at 01:19:12 PM 
Started by DadOscarMike - Last post by foo
We always encourage folks to visit at least most for a month. It never fails that visitors show up on either PT day and get to see folks running the mile and doing pushups, or they come on drill day and all they see is marching.  Or one of those organizational business meeting type days, where yes, its mostly the CC talking over things. LOL

If I see a visitor coming in on one of those days, I try to get to them quickly and talk about our monthly schedule and how every meeting is different and some days are more fun (Aerospace) than others, so please visit several times.

I like what you said, with just a minor quibble with your first statement. If your unit cares about following regulations (and I realize many don't so much):

Quote from: CAPR 39-2 Civil Air Patrol Membership
2.2.8. Prospective cadets visiting a traditional unit must participate in a trial period by attending three squadron meetings before requesting membership. Unit commanders will not approve membership applications (online or in paper form) until the prospective cadet has attended his or her third squadron meeting. Commanders of school-sponsored units possessing an 800-series charter number will set a trial period appropriate for that school unitís program environment, in coordination with the school principal. Prospective cadets may not explore CAP without joining for longer than 30 days.

In other words, they must complete their three visits within one month, not "at least" one month.

 8 
 on: Today at 12:51:26 PM 
Started by GaryVC - Last post by Eclipse


This is another area where clarification and simplification is needed, and "self-actualizing" ribbons,
badges, etc., should not need "double-really-meant-it"  approval - encampment, red service, NCSA, and
I'm sure others could and should be added to the awards area automatically upon the credit
for that activity being posted.  Anything less insinuates by design that a member could possibly
get activity credit but not the ribbon, which is an argument I have heard made by ahem..."less experienced"
commanders.  "They can't wear the ribbon until >I< approve it."


I have seen (and don't know the validity of) when a person has been made an award from outside the Wing, the awardee was told it was not valid until the Wing Commander of her current wing had approved it.  This was several years ago and things may have changed since then

This is actually correct.  A Wing CC can only authorize awards for members of his/her Wing and a Region CC can only authorize awards for members of his/her Region.

The Air Force is not much different regarding award approvals either.

Cite please.

This may be tradition, but I have never seen this codified anywhere in the regulations and know of a number of situations
that conflict with the above, not to mention the above would also insinuate that a Group CC would only be able to present an
Achievement Award to members of his own Group and I know that's not the case, certainly not for decs awarded outside eservices.

I also wouldn't argue that the above isn't the current logic of eServices approval chain for 120s, but we all know how well eServices
accommodates "stuff tat would never happen".  /eyeroll emoji/

The only restriction I'm aware of is that only CC's can recommend other CC's for decs.


Well, there you go:
CAPR 39-3 Page 5:
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R039_003_83459660D4F44.pdf

"c. Region commanders are authorized to award the Exceptional Service Award, Meritorious
Service Award, the Commanderís Commendation Award, CAP Achievement Award and the
Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving. These awards may be approved by region commanders for
all members of units within their regions.
Announcements of such awards will be made in personnel
actions published by regional headquarters.

d. Wing commanders are authorized to award the Commanderís Commendation Award, CAP
Achievement Award and the Certificate of Recognition for Lifesaving. These awards may be
approved by wing commanders for all members of units within their wings.
Announcement of such
awards will be made in personnel actions published by wing headquarters.

e. Group commanders are authorized to award the CAP Achievement Award. These awards
may be approved by group commanders for all members of units within their group.
If a wing does
not have a group structure, the wing commander may designate who has the authority to approve this
award."


And while the above doesn't contain the word "only", based on the way and nature of CAP regs, "that which is not authorized,
is prohibited" (please, run to your keyboard and argue that point again, it's raining by me).  with that said,
I can say with certainty that awards and decs have been handed out for years in violation of the above.

 9 
 on: Today at 12:36:32 PM 
Started by GaryVC - Last post by Alaric


This is another area where clarification and simplification is needed, and "self-actualizing" ribbons,
badges, etc., should not need "double-really-meant-it"  approval - encampment, red service, NCSA, and
I'm sure others could and should be added to the awards area automatically upon the credit
for that activity being posted.  Anything less insinuates by design that a member could possibly
get activity credit but not the ribbon, which is an argument I have heard made by ahem..."less experienced"
commanders.  "They can't wear the ribbon until >I< approve it."


I have seen (and don't know the validity of) when a person has been made an award from outside the Wing, the awardee was told it was not valid until the Wing Commander of her current wing had approved it.  This was several years ago and things may have changed since then

This is actually correct.  A Wing CC can only authorize awards for members of his/her Wing and a Region CC can only authorize awards for members of his/her Region.

The Air Force is not much different regarding award approvals either.

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me for instance Member A of Samsung Wing is asked to help support a large AE activity in LG Wing, she is given permission by the Commander of Samsung.  The Wing commander of LG Wing notes what a great job she is doing and wants to present her a Commander's Commendation, why would the commander of Samsung even get involved?

 10 
 on: Today at 12:26:21 PM 
Started by GaryVC - Last post by kwe1009


This is another area where clarification and simplification is needed, and "self-actualizing" ribbons,
badges, etc., should not need "double-really-meant-it"  approval - encampment, red service, NCSA, and
I'm sure others could and should be added to the awards area automatically upon the credit
for that activity being posted.  Anything less insinuates by design that a member could possibly
get activity credit but not the ribbon, which is an argument I have heard made by ahem..."less experienced"
commanders.  "They can't wear the ribbon until >I< approve it."


I have seen (and don't know the validity of) when a person has been made an award from outside the Wing, the awardee was told it was not valid until the Wing Commander of her current wing had approved it.  This was several years ago and things may have changed since then

This is actually correct.  A Wing CC can only authorize awards for members of his/her Wing and a Region CC can only authorize awards for members of his/her Region.

The Air Force is not much different regarding award approvals either.

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