So this is something I've had on my mind ever since I was a cadet. There are plenty of cadets and seniors alike with musical talent. Many have performed at a high school level, some in the college and DCI (Drum Corps Internation) echelon. I'm sure there may even be a few professionals and teachers out there as well.
Anyways my thought was with all of that talent floating around, how about the CAP take advantage of this and form its own marching and/or concert band (Assuming there isn't one already).
I know there are a lot of things that have to be taken into concideration to get something like this started, but I would like to know what some of your thoughts are. If there are any CAPTalkers with a musical background, your input would be greatly appreciated.
My general thoughts are forming a marching band either on the wing or National level, possibly regional. Likely a summer activity, similar to how many cities have community bands during the summer.
Run it up the chain of command to CAC thats the best way to get it done with.
I'm quite familiar with how to run things up the chain of command. My point right now is to see what the CAPTalkers have to say. I will likely run it by the CAC at the next wing meeting though.
Bringing up the topic here, allows people in other wings, who might have an interest, to bring it up with their own chain of command. Plus im offering the idea to seniors as well. Not just as a cadet activity.
I know a few people that are doing something simmiliar but for pt.
Interesting thought for PT lol. Actually, back in my high school days we recieved PE credit for marching band so I can see how that works.
Quote from: Captainbob441 on May 24, 2009, 11:06:44 PM
Interesting thought for PT lol. Actually, back in my high school days we recieved PE credit for marching band so I can see how that works.
Some suggestions are stting up a facebook account if you dont already have one and ask them they might have insight to or might actually give you poeple to use.
Also not a bad idea. Though i'll stress again that right now im not concerned about figuring out how to start one, but more or less seeing if there's infact enough people with interest, that it would be a feasable use of my time and resources to begin the process at all.
My personal hopes are that there are some individuals interested in either helping the formation process, or individuals willing to participate in such an activity. If there isn't much of a market then I don't want to be wasting my time.
Quote from: Captainbob441 on May 24, 2009, 11:14:58 PM
Also not a bad idea. Though i'll stress again that right now im not concerned about figuring out how to start one, but more or less seeing if there's infact enough people with interest, that it would be a feasable use of my time and resources to begin the process at all.
My personal hopes are that there are some individuals interested in either helping the formation process, or individuals willing to participate in such an activity. If there isn't much of a market then I don't want to be wasting my time.
Yeah I see.
IIRC, Maryland Wing has or had a band, I don't know if it's still active.
But that's the only CAP Band I have heard of.
What uniform will they wear?
Blues would be an appropriate uniform for something like this. Althought, I have seen military bands in BDU's so thats a likely possibility as well.
For those that do not meet requirments for the blue AF style uniform, then I can see having a polo combination for a senior only group. Creating an entirely new uniform for it would be a waste of money.
Quote from: PHall on May 24, 2009, 11:24:01 PM
IIRC, Maryland Wing has or had a band, I don't know if it's still active.
But that's the only CAP Band I have heard of.
I thought I recalled seeing a picture or two of a CAP band at some point. Possibly it was them.
Quote from: capcadetwilliams on May 24, 2009, 10:52:24 PM
Um run it up the chain of command to CAC thats the best way to get it done with.
People will take you more seriously if you stop writing "um" at the beginning of your posts.
Quote from: Rotorhead on May 24, 2009, 11:53:41 PM
Quote from: capcadetwilliams on May 24, 2009, 10:52:24 PM
Um run it up the chain of command to CAC thats the best way to get it done with.
People will take you more seriously if you stop writing "um" at the beginning of your posts.
Sorry.
There used to be a National Special Activity that was a band or band-related. Our squadron sent a cadet to it back in the 2002-2004 time-frame. I looked at the current activities listed, and I'm either blind, or they don't have it anymore.
My guess is that there wasn't enough interest/funding to keep the activity going, though I don't know for sure what happened to it.
Quote from: Captainbob441 on May 24, 2009, 11:48:59 PM
Quote from: PHall on May 24, 2009, 11:24:01 PM
IIRC, Maryland Wing has or had a band, I don't know if it's still active.
But that's the only CAP Band I have heard of.
I thought I recalled seeing a picture or two of a CAP band at some point. Possibly it was them.
Here's what I found with a quick search:
MDWG Band linky 1 (http://mdcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=article.display&articleID=437)
MDWG Band linky 2 (http://mdcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=article.display&articleid=228)
Seems MDWG has a good start. Having a Wing defined Director of music would be a big help in getting programs started in other wings.
As for the special activity mentioned before, the reason it probably went under is like stated, interest and funding. As a specialy activity, it is very limited. Band programs have to start locally to work.
Example from the public schools band system: You can't have a National honor band, until you have a state or region honor band to draw from. And you cant have a state or region honor band until you have high schools and jr. highs to draw from. And high schools dont work well unless they have students who started in elementary school or by private instruction.
Transfer that to CAP, a national cadet activity involving band might have worked had there been group/state bands that could spread the word about the national activity and encourage their cadets to continue.
If you really want to go the extra mile in terms of getting cadets into a program, make a ribbon for it that they can earn for being part of a band.
Quote from: Rotorhead on May 24, 2009, 11:53:41 PM
Quote from: capcadetwilliams on May 24, 2009, 10:52:24 PM
Um run it up the chain of command to CAC thats the best way to get it done with.
People will take you more seriously if you stop writing "um" at the beginning of your posts.
and spell "talent" correctly. :P I agree, run it pass CAC and perhaps try it locally at your squadron to get a ideal of how to integrate it into CAP.
My squadron isn't the best place to test things, though I'll be brining it up with the CAC and Wing staff likely in a few weeks.
Quote from: PHall on May 24, 2009, 11:24:01 PM
IIRC, Maryland Wing has or had a band, I don't know if it's still active.
But that's the only CAP Band I have heard of.
Pennsylvania Wing started a Band. Then Maryland members stole it (decided to start their own). Now there is none if I remember correctly.
I think either Maryland or Pennsylvania had a "Band Encampment" where Cadets got encampment credit for attending. Cool idea......
There was an NCSA for band, I attended it during the summer of 2001. Here is the article on CadteStuff:http://www.cadetstuff.org/archives/000193.html
It was not scheduled for this summer :-[ I hope it returns though. I would defiantly attend again.
Check the Knowledgebase for National Military Music Academy.
DN
Quote from: USADOD on May 25, 2009, 01:12:18 AM
Quote from: Rotorhead on May 24, 2009, 11:53:41 PM
Quote from: capcadetwilliams on May 24, 2009, 10:52:24 PM
Um run it up the chain of command to CAC thats the best way to get it done with.
People will take you more seriously if you stop writing "um" at the beginning of your posts.
and spell "talent" correctly. :P I agree, run it pass CAC and perhaps try it locally at your squadron to get a ideal of how to integrate it into CAP.
While you're complaining about spelling, it's "run it past" not "run it pass". Make sure you're correct when you correct. Give the cadet a break.
We don't have a CAP band in these parts (NCR) that I'm aware of. I think I read somewhere that Texas Wing has a band, but I may be mistaken on that.
As for the idea, I've always thought it would be cool to organize a Wing Band, but like most things in CAP it would take dedicated manpower and adequate support (even if just moral support) from command for it to happen. Given we struggle with getting our basic missions done sometimes, I think it would be tough to get it to take off. People's "CAP time" is often limited and a band would require just too much time and effort.
When I was a cadet back in the late 50's, early 60's I was in the Cadet band in CAWG. We met once a week just like any other squadron. Marched in parades and performed at Pass in Review exercises at encampment.
I enjoyed it for the time I was in it. I found I enjoyed SAR more.
Quote from: NEBoom on May 25, 2009, 02:58:54 PM
We don't have a CAP band in these parts (NCR) that I'm aware of. I think I read somewhere that Texas Wing has a band, but I may be mistaken on that.
As for the idea, I've always thought it would be cool to organize a Wing Band, but like most things in CAP it would take dedicated manpower and adequate support (even if just moral support) from command for it to happen. Given we struggle with getting our basic missions done sometimes, I think it would be tough to get it to take off. People's "CAP time" is often limited and a band would require just too much time and effort.
TX Wing hasn't had a band in years...
I heard the MDWG band perform. They were pretty good - wore WW2 era khaki uniforms and did big band numbers.
If we start a band, can I play the cowbell?
Quote from: BrandonKea on May 26, 2009, 02:41:28 AM
If we start a band, can I play the cowbell?
(http://www.richardcleaver.com/images/cowbell_skit.jpg)
I've got a fever....
I like the idea of doing a Band NCSA (I remember the old one, not sure what all it encompassed). You could make it a 10-14 day activity which ends with a performance, perhaps at another NCSA? I dunno.
Funding for equipment, i.e. percussion equipment (I never owned my bass drum, cymbals, timpani, cowbell.) would be tough.
Maybe something that allows members (cadets AND seniors) to practice with an Air Force band would be cool too, like the Heartland of America band or something like that.
Quote from: BrandonKea on May 26, 2009, 02:41:28 AM
If we start a band, can I play the cowbell?
We'd make you play Cello... in the marching band. :D
Quote from: BrandonKea on May 26, 2009, 03:02:06 AM
I like the idea of doing a Band NCSA (I remember the old one, not sure what all it encompassed). You could make it a 10-14 day activity which ends with a performance, perhaps at another NCSA? I dunno.
Funding for equipment, i.e. percussion equipment (I never owned my bass drum, cymbals, timpani, cowbell.) would be tough.
Maybe something that allows members (cadets AND seniors) to practice with an Air Force band would be cool too, like the Heartland of America band or something like that.
An NCSA would be a good idea, I would like to know why the old one ended though as to not make the same mistake twice. Also having cadets AND seniors is what I'm getting at as well.
Back in my HS days, we often had USMC recruiters from the band out at Pendelton speak with our HS band (our director was a Navy bando) so having cadets and seniors getting an opportunity to actually maybe play, or be recognized by an AF band would really be worth it IMHO.
Quote from: NEBoom on May 26, 2009, 03:47:52 PM
Quote from: BrandonKea on May 26, 2009, 02:41:28 AM
If we start a band, can I play the cowbell?
We'd make you play Cello... in the marching band. :D
You laugh, I've seen it done! They have special wheels that attach to the little spike thing (forgive terminology. I'm not a string player). I've also seen High schools that march bassoons during halftime shows! Anything is possible!
I think a band is a great idea. When cadets have Pass and eveiws a band would be a great addition to that and it would help the formation look strack. It would help cadets to stay in step and march to the beat. One thing i have noticed inCAP, a lot of cadets dont have rythmn and cant stay in step. A Drum would help immensely.
Quote from: flyguy06 on May 26, 2009, 10:20:53 PM
I think a band is a great idea. When cadets have Pass and eveiws a band would be a great addition to that and it would help the formation look strack. It would help cadets to stay in step and march to the beat. One thing i have noticed inCAP, a lot of cadets dont have rythmn and cant stay in step. A Drum would help immensely.
Wow, I would hope a Flight Commander would be able to count cadence and keep their flight in step without a drum...
Quote from: BrandonKea on May 26, 2009, 11:24:04 PM
Wow, I would hope a Flight Commander would be able to count cadence and keep their flight in step without a drum...
Sadly, there are many units out there, mine included that can't. Hopefully when I get a little more involved with the cadets, I'll see what I can do about getting that fixed. Not that I would ever expect there to be a drum sitting around for someone to act as a metronome. A lot of the principles involved with Drill and Ceremonies need to be called in time. Every command has a set interval that should be followed between the preparatory command and the command of execution. This time should be followed by the cadets in response.
If you have a commander that isn't capable of calling commands to a set tempo, then you can't expect cadets to react at the same time, and you get ripple effects in their facing movements, as well as their steps not being in phase, even though they might all be on the same foot. Which is why I often suggest some cadets get a small metronome with a vibrate setting that they can hold onto to get that tempo drilled into them first. and can tell if their cadets are responding correctly.
Now as for pass and reviews, I agree that just having a band there is something I wish would happen. It adds to the whole ambiance of the event. Not to mention it keeps all the units on the same time. Musical recordings are great, but nothing beats a live band.
or just a cowbell...
IIRC, the correct term is pass in review.
Quote from: BTCS1* on May 27, 2009, 04:28:17 AM
or just a cowbell...
Yeah, we can just tie a bunch of cow bells to each cadet and when they get out of step...we'll know (Just kidding of course). In all seriousness though, would you want to be marching to a cowbell?
Oh and yes, its Pass in review, my mistake. Wasn't really thinking when I typed it.
What ever happend to "Left, Left, Left Right Left."
Back on topic, Band : Good! Let's assign a CAPTalk Project Officer and send this puppy to CAPTalk Committee...
Haha, isn't it Hupt Twpt Thrept Forpt and such now?
Anyways yes back on topic, if theres some serious people out there that really would like to see, if nothing else the NCSA band program working again, I would be more than willing to help get things going again. I'm sure what ever issues that shut it down the first time, can be fixed given the right staff for the job. I would like to see something more on the local level though. Maybe if we get some ballsy CAPTalkers to get in touch with their wing/region staff. Just getting the thought out there is more than sitting around just letting the idea dance around in our heads.
it depends, am I using the cowbell? if not... NO WAY! LOL
You can use the cowbell. I'll buy you one myself if I have to. ;D
YAY! LOL, conversation over, we have a cowbell! what?... there are other insturments besides the cowbell!?!? NOOOOO...;P LMAO
Be glad I didn't say Lets start a CAP Drum Corps! As amazing as that would be. Otherwise you would be stuck on the sidelines carrying water.
Drum and Cowbell Corp! What a great idea! Now all we need are some ''creative new'' uniforms! I say we get to wear BDUS with a beret and a tab! ;D
Yeah, like the last thing the CAP needs is more uniforms. ::) Though if we did end up with a field marching drum and bugle corps.....or in your case drum bugle and cowbell, then I would take it on myself to get the corps uniforms, likely from a marching band uniform provider, and it would nowhere be introduced into the 39-1. But thats a stretch at best as it would take a massive tryout process to form such a corps. Not saying I wouldn't mind doing it if enough people though it was a good idea, though I'll stick with parade bands and concert for now.
Quote from: Captainbob441 on May 27, 2009, 04:24:08 AMNow as for pass and reviews [ . . . ]
Quote from: SarDragon on May 27, 2009, 04:28:50 AM
IIRC, the correct term is pass in review.
Actually, neither usage is doctrinally correct.
"Pass in Review" is
not the name of the ceremony. It is the command of execution given by the Commander of Troops during a Review Ceremony or Parade to get everyone to march around in a square.
We don't call the Review or Parade a "Pass in Review" any more than we call a squadron's opening ceremony a "Fall In".
Doctrinally correct, probably not. Do people know what we are talking about? Well, you did so I guess so :) But for the record, if you would care to enlighten us as to what the official term would be, then perhaps some may feel so inclined as to actually use the correct terms.
Quote from: Captainbob441 on May 28, 2009, 12:08:14 AM
Doctrinally correct, probably not. Do people know what we are talking about? Well, you did so I guess so :) But for the record, if you would care to enlighten us as to what the official term would be, then perhaps some may feel so inclined as to actually use the correct terms.
Oh, I agree that most folks would know what you are talking about, and I don't have a huge problem with that. Heck, I've been known to say "blues" instead of "service dress" myself.
I was mostly reacting to Dave's "correction" of you.
The actual doctrinal terms were contained in my response. The command "pass in review" is used both during a Wng Review and a Parade. See AFMAN 36-2203 (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/AFMAN_362203_Air_Force_Drill__Cerem_A27E4A9217B19.pdf) for more info.
Ned Lee
Quote from: Always Ready on May 25, 2009, 12:09:58 AM
Quote from: Captainbob441 on May 24, 2009, 11:48:59 PM
Quote from: PHall on May 24, 2009, 11:24:01 PM
IIRC, Maryland Wing has or had a band, I don't know if it's still active.
But that's the only CAP Band I have heard of.
I thought I recalled seeing a picture or two of a CAP band at some point. Possibly it was them.
Here's what I found with a quick search:
MDWG Band linky 1 (http://mdcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=article.display&articleID=437)
MDWG Band linky 2 (http://mdcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=article.display&articleid=228)
http://www.mdcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=unit.view&unitID=6 (http://www.mdcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=unit.view&unitID=6)
Since the original discussion was about CAP bands I thought I would put in that Major Carrales has (or had..not sure the current situation) a CAP band for his squadron. Anyone looking for someone that has done it before might want to contact him. Just FYI.
I figure someone with a mission-base qualification could play the coffeemaker or the practice ELT.
Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if someone considered a steel guitar or an organ for a CAP marching band....
Their soon to be signiture song: ELT sweep! LOL
The coffeemaker, incidentally, would be a rhythm instrument. At least until the cycle's over.
We had one in MIWG some years ago, only a few performances put on but it was well-received. Both SM and cadets were involved. Our Director was the current wing commander for Colorado, Col Ed Phelka.
We experimented with a Squadron band this last year. It was challenging, we may try it again next year.