CAP Talk

 :clap:

I voted for both, sorry.  I think this type of thread was beaten senseless about four months ago.

I'd rather have a "Photo ID," provided it's a Photo CAP ID.  IDK why though.  Guess it's because I have to much stuff in my wallet as it is, lol.

I think you need to clarify the poll.  Do you mean a non CAP photo ID or a CAP photo ID???

Quote from: capchiro on April 26, 2006, 05:44:48 PM
I think you need to clarify the poll.  Do you mean a non CAP photo ID or a CAP photo ID???

Thanks for asking, sir.  That's why I answered the way I did,

I already have a photo ID, its called my Drivers license  ;D
The CAP photo ID is currently in progress of being decided upon (design and layout) and you can pre-order them via E-services. If you search the forum you'll find quite a few threads discussing the current situation on the photo ID.

Heres just one of them:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=499.0

I would like to have both.

I know this is beating a dead horse, but here goes once more.

The card we currently carry is NOT an ID card, it's a membership card. There is an old, optional ID card available (CAPF 19) that is pretty much usless in today's security conscious world. These will be augmented by the new picture ID card later this year, for those who order and pay for them.

Can Cadets get the CAPF 19?  I heard yes, and I have heard no.  Someone help me out please.

Quote from: CAPR 39-21-15. b. In addition, CAPF 19, CAP Photo Identification Card, may be issued to senior members on an optional basis by region and wing commanders. (National Headquarters may issue photo identification cards to members assigned to units in the 99000 series.) The photo identification card is not valid unless accompanied by a current membership card.
1) Members may request identification cards by completing CAPF 19A, Request for CAP Photo Identification Card, attaching a 1" x 1" photograph and forwarding to their region or wing headquarters as appropriate.

Meaning: On a case-by-case scenario, cadets could indeed be issued them.

Quote from: Matt on April 27, 2006, 02:16:52 PM
Meaning: On a case-by-case scenario, cadets could indeed be issued them.

Nope...  It says it may be issued to senior members on an optional basis.

You don't need one anyway.  You are better off with a state issued drivers license or ID and your membership card.  I have never used my CAPF 19.

Quote from: MIKE on April 27, 2006, 02:24:11 PM

Quote from: Matt on April 27, 2006, 02:16:52 PM
Meaning: On a case-by-case scenario, cadets could indeed be issued them.

Nope...  It says it may be issued to senior members on an optional basis.

You don't need one anyway.  You are better off with a state issued drivers license or ID and your membership card.  I have never used my CAPF 19.

I would concur that there is no real need for them; however, for arguement sake I'm going to ask a couple questions.  One, how come on the F19A it has a Cadet Check-Box and in 39-2 is says [quote author CAPR 39-2]1) Members may request identification cards by completing CAPF 19A, Request for CAP Photo Identification Card, attaching a 1" x 1" photograph and forwarding to their region or wing headquarters as appropriate.[/quote] with special note to MEMBER not senior member.

Quote from: Matt on April 27, 2006, 05:42:44 PM

Quote from: MIKE on April 27, 2006, 02:24:11 PM

Quote from: Matt on April 27, 2006, 02:16:52 PM
Meaning: On a case-by-case scenario, cadets could indeed be issued them.

Nope...  It says it may be issued to senior members on an optional basis.

You don't need one anyway.  You are better off with a state issued drivers license or ID and your membership card.  I have never used my CAPF 19.

I would concur that there is no real need for them; however, for arguement sake I'm going to ask a couple questions.  One, how come on the F19A it has a Cadet Check-Box and in 39-2 is says [quote author CAPR 39-2]1) Members may request identification cards by completing CAPF 19A, Request for CAP Photo Identification Card, attaching a 1" x 1" photograph and forwarding to their region or wing headquarters as appropriate. with special note to MEMBER not senior member.

Doesn't matter why it's there.  The regulation trumps the form, and since the form is dated earlier than the regulation, the regulation may have once upon a time allowed cadets to request CAPF 19s. 

It doesn't matter now, though.  The form doesn't need to be updated.  If someone checks the cadet box, it's a quicker way for the Wing admin officer to sort the form to the big blue recycle bin.  It's not that I don't support the idea of photo IDs for cadets or anything -- I think we should all have them (which is neither here nor there) -- but the regs as they stand now are clear.  That's all we need to know.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion... which was, uhm... well, I'm not really sure.  Here's a few of these discussions we've had already on this topic:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=499.0
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=66.0  (7 pages worth of posts in that gem)
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=397.0

You don't get it Matt... CAPR 39-2 dated 16 June 2004 flat out says that the cards may only be issued to senior members.  CAPF 19A is dated May 81.  Cadets can request CAPF 19s by submitting a CAPF 19A sure... but any issuing officer at wing with half a brain knows that CAPR 39-2 as published restricts issue to seniors and will round file any CAPF 19A submitted for a cadet.  Why waste the paper/postage?

Honestly to me it doesn't make any difference if there is a CAP photo ID.  My membership card and a government or state issued ID is enough for me.  Besides I use my DoD AAFES ID card to access the base and keep my CAP membership card with  my MDDF State ID.  That way if I go to MCSS I just show both cards and have no problems.

Cadets today don't remember the awesome cards we used to be issued.  They were the flimsy white ones without the barcode.  Honestly, the barcode would be great if national would provide readers for each unit.  One of my fellow members got a used reader, which we hung on the wall by our door, and the members basically sign in and out that way.  We did however have one "slick" cadet sign in both himself and his buddy about a year ago.  Just have to watch for that I guess.

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 27, 2006, 08:37:47 PM
Cadets today don't remember the awesome cards we used to be issued.  They were the flimsy white ones without the barcode. 

I still have mine from back when I joined as a cadet in '97... Had the "Gold Card" membership card by the time of my first renewal.

I actually still have every CAP membership card I was ever issued...

Quote from: mikeylikey on April 27, 2006, 08:37:47 PM
Cadets today don't remember the awesome cards we used to be issued.  They were the flimsy white ones without the barcode.  Honestly, the barcode would be great if national would provide readers for each unit.  One of my fellow members got a used reader, which we hung on the wall by our door, and the members basically sign in and out that way.  We did however have one "slick" cadet sign in both himself and his buddy about a year ago.  Just have to watch for that I guess.

Ooh, I still have my old flimsy white membership cards... the one with the blue across the top.

Our squadron got a modified CueCat barcode reader off eBay for about $10.  I think the CueCat's used to be free, but come with a serial plug.  Somebody mass converts these things to USB plugs and sells them cheap on eBay.  It works great for our unit and we sign in all meetings via SIMS with it.

Quote from: Pylon on April 27, 2006, 10:15:23 PM
Ooh, I still have my old flimsy white membership cards... the one with the blue across the top.

Pffftttt....you "whipper snappers" probably don't even know there used to be paper membership cards...

As I remember, they came like a blue card-stock post card and were perforated so you could cut off just the card portion.  I don't have mine any more, but I do have my Restricted Radio Operators Permit dated 1974.  (insert "old guy smilie" here) ;D

Quote from: Al Sayre on April 28, 2006, 12:29:39 AM
As I remember, they came like a blue card-stock post card and were perforated so you could cut off just the card portion.  I don't have mine any more, but I do have my Restricted Radio Operators Permit dated 1974.  (insert "old guy smilie" here) ;D

Mine's dated 9-4-70.

Quote from: MIKE on April 27, 2006, 06:08:47 PM
You don't get it Matt... CAPR 39-2 dated 16 June 2004 flat out says that the cards may only be issued to senior members.  CAPF 19A is dated May 81.  Cadets can request CAPF 19s by submitting a CAPF 19A sure... but any issuing officer at wing with half a brain knows that CAPR 39-2 as published restricts issue to seniors and will round file any CAPF 19A submitted for a cadet.  Why waste the paper/postage?

Nope, I gathered that, whichever is newer is the trump, Admin-101.

However, the second question didn't get answered.  Why does it say members, and not Senior Members.

Quote from: CAPR 39-2
1) Members may request identification cards by completing CAPF 19A, Request for CAP Photo Identification Card, attaching a 1" x 1" photograph and forwarding to their region or wing headquarters as appropriate.

And, there is nothing governing the cadet portion under the photo ID clause.  There is only direction of SMs, and unless I missed a paragraph, it's not an exclusionary reg.

OK, the entire text of that section is quoted below. Any highlighting is mine.

Quote from: CAPR 39-2, para 1-15. Membership and Identifications Cards.b. In addition, CAPF 19, CAP Photo Identification Card, may be issued to senior members on an optional basis by region and wing commanders. (National Headquarters may issue photo identification cards to members assigned to units in the 99000 series.) The photo identification card is not valid unless accompanied by a current membership card.
1) Members may request identification cards by completing CAPF 19A, Request for CAP Photo Identification Card, attaching a 1" x 1" photograph and forwarding to their region or wing headquarters as appropriate.
2) Members assigned to units in the 99000 series may request photo identification cards directly from NHQ CAP/LMM.

Having established in para b. that cards are to be issued to senior members, it becomes redundant to restate "senior members" in paras 1) and 2).

Quote from: SarDragon on April 28, 2006, 08:48:44 PM
OK, the entire text of that section is quoted below. Any highlighting is mine.

Quote from: CAPR 39-2, para 1-15. Membership and Identifications Cards.b. In addition, CAPF 19, CAP Photo Identification Card, may be issued to senior members on an optional basis by region and wing commanders. (National Headquarters may issue photo identification cards to members assigned to units in the 99000 series.) The photo identification card is not valid unless accompanied by a current membership card.
1) Members may request identification cards by completing CAPF 19A, Request for CAP Photo Identification Card, attaching a 1" x 1" photograph and forwarding to their region or wing headquarters as appropriate.
2) Members assigned to units in the 99000 series may request photo identification cards directly from NHQ CAP/LMM.

Having established in para b. that cards are to be issued to senior members, it becomes redundant to restate "senior members" in paras 1) and 2).

Ok, so then where does it mention anything to govern cadets?  The reg is not exclusionary, so in theory they could be.

Quote from: Matt on April 29, 2006, 08:32:05 PM

Quote from: SarDragon on April 28, 2006, 08:48:44 PM
OK, the entire text of that section is quoted below. Any highlighting is mine.

Quote from: CAPR 39-2, para 1-15. Membership and Identifications Cards.b. In addition, CAPF 19, CAP Photo Identification Card, may be issued to senior members on an optional basis by region and wing commanders. (National Headquarters may issue photo identification cards to members assigned to units in the 99000 series.) The photo identification card is not valid unless accompanied by a current membership card.
1) Members may request identification cards by completing CAPF 19A, Request for CAP Photo Identification Card, attaching a 1" x 1" photograph and forwarding to their region or wing headquarters as appropriate.
2) Members assigned to units in the 99000 series may request photo identification cards directly from NHQ CAP/LMM.

Having established in para b. that cards are to be issued to senior members, it becomes redundant to restate "senior members" in paras 1) and 2).

Ok, so then where does it mention anything to govern cadets?  The reg is not exclusionary, so in theory they could be.

Since it SPECIFIES SENIOR MEMBERS, that means it is only for SENIOR MEMBERS. It doesn't have to say "Not for cadets". That is a given since it says the card is for senior members. read the emphasised portion.