Sort of a military/communications topic, but thought I'd start it up in here for a bit.
While using the radio, where does the term "be advised" fit in?
I was at a 4 day ORE with my Guard unit this past weekend; my first experience "in the field" with the ANG, and I've never heard the term preceed so many transmissions. I'd say, and this is no exageration, that at least 80% of traffic started with "be advised".
In fact, I even heard it preceed a question: "Bear One, this is Badger 3, be advised, can you send another QRF team to our position, over?"
Lord Monar? Retired Comms MSgt...any comments?
In the example you used....it was wrong.
We do you it all the time when you want to send info out but don't require a specific response.
I would unusually say it after I have tasked a team but want to give them sort of extra info.
"NBC team 1 go to sector 2 to do a M256 check...be advised EOD reports UXO's in the area".
The funny part is that we get more official radio training in CAP then I ever got as a AD USAF comm guy.
They would just hand me a radio and say "you are team 2, we're Control, and use channel 2". I kid you not that was the entirety of my radio training.
It's not just military, you hear it a lot in public safety. A filler, like "um" when you don't have your thoughts together. It's a real easy, and annoying, habit to fall into.
Quote from: EMT-83 on February 09, 2009, 05:28:59 PM
It's not just military, you hear it a lot in public safety. A filler, like "um" when you don't have your thoughts together. It's a real easy, and annoying, habit to fall into.
Its a useless phrase. That is probably one of the most abused terms I have heard in police work. One day I want to get on the radio and yell "NO S---! " Thats why your telling us in the first place isnt it?! It goes right along with "FYI......the stop sign fell down at X and Y St." Really? FYI? Oh, OK...thanks.
"Be advised" is a crutch phrase, like "uhhhh." It sounds official, but it's B.S. and needless. Needless like another phrase you occasionally hear a rookie cadet use on the radio....
Be advised. Over and out.
P.S.: I also hate it when people say "roger that" with every response in a radio conversation. Another crutch.
I know I have used Be Advised in times in which I need no response from whom I am telling. To many times there is good information that needs to be put out to a section but I dont need everyone responding back to me. An example would be while I was in Iraq last time. I recall noticing a group of possible bad actors moving through my sector. Instead of calling in to the TOC something like "hippo base this is tower 10 over" then waiting for their reply "Tower 10 this is hippo base" "Hippos base we have a bongo truck moving through our sector on route flamingo west bound through my sector and will be entering towers 9's sector shortly" By time all that gets done and said that truck could already be in a new area or already cause trouble and I am tieing up the radio by all the formality and such. Rather my call was "hippo base this is tower 10 be advised that we have a blue bongo truck with possible bad actors moving west on route flamingo. Truck is now entering tower 9's sector"
This now saved a ton of time plus it puts out the important information quickly for the people who need it with out the need of response. Now tower 9 knows I have seen something that doesnt look right and they are able to watch it as well. What I am sending up it a SPOT report or a SITREP however you choose to look at it, however I am going past all the extra stuff and putting out the info. Same thing "Towers 1 through 15 this is hippo base, be advised the truck for shift change has broke down" While after that transmission there is expletives being said none are needed to be transmitted.
Is the term used incorrectly? Oh yes!!! And so are so many other terms used. US forces have poor radio skills to be honest. We get the job done but not by they way we say it is suppose to be done.
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 10, 2009, 02:18:14 AM
Quote from: EMT-83 on February 09, 2009, 05:28:59 PM
It's not just military, you hear it a lot in public safety. A filler, like "um" when you don't have your thoughts together. It's a real easy, and annoying, habit to fall into.
Its a useless phrase. That is probably one of the most abused terms I have heard in police work. One day I want to get on the radio and yell "NO S---! " Thats why your telling us in the first place isnt it?! It goes right along with "FYI......the stop sign fell down at X and Y St." Really? FYI? Oh, OK...thanks.
:clap:
I used to work for a GS-15 who used it everytime she got on. I've found that it is also a way for the sender to "exert" their importance on the receiver. It's one of the stupidest "prowords" that's used. We use the radio to advise folks, so "be advised" is straight out of the department of redundancy department.
I think a lot of the ANG folks I work with one weekend a month think it's cool to say. If I remember correctly, it has been used on several war movies like Platoon, Casualties of War and Heartbreak Ridge.
The company commander in Platoon used it to make the FO understand that he knew he was calling for CAS on his own position since he was being over run by NVA/VC: "I say again, drop all remaining on my pos...". In a way, I can potentially see the need to get_the_point_across, but really, I can't say that I see a huge need for it. Radio communications is supposed to be short and to the point, hence the use of prowords like Wilco, Roger, Over, Out, etc. "Be advsied" adds to the message and is not necessary.
I think I blew their mind when I sent a SALUTE report up. It's in the Airman's Manual and from my day as a grunt, it was a standard practice. In the AF, I think it's just a cool buzzword like "military", "discipline" and "hooah". ;)
Actually, "be advised" has benefits similar to "this is" in that it announces relevant information to the mission at hand. You *could* eliminate a lot of the prowords and get by, but they do help train your brain to be prepared to receive certain types of information. In the case of "be advised", it can also alert listeners who are not a party to the conversation and have already "tuned out" that there may be something pertinent to listen up for.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on February 10, 2009, 02:33:29 PM
Actually, "be advised" has benefits similar to "this is" in that it announces relevant information to the mission at hand. You *could* eliminate a lot of the prowords and get by, but they do help train your brain to be prepared to receive certain types of information. In the case of "be advised", it can also alert listeners who are not a party to the conversation and have already "tuned out" that there may be something pertinent to listen up for.
Wouldn't you use it in an "all stations" call? Such as a weather report or similar?
Hmmm, let's see:
"Adam 12, Be Advised this is Bravo 24 with a SITREP. We are in compliance with all directives and commencing to proceed at 1200 Hours PM to the rendezvous location at Sector 4 for a rendezvous. We are under the sun....right...NOW...ready, ready, HACK. Roger, Wilco, Over, and OUT." ;D
Could I get a job in your unit, Stonewall? >:D >:D >:D
Quote from: Fifinella on February 10, 2009, 08:45:45 PM
Could I get a job in your unit, Stonewall? >:D >:D >:D
Sure. Reactivate your commission (or whatever you need to do) and be our Squadron Commander or XO.
I have been in ANG SF for 2 years and this was my first actual training exercise. I learned that SOPs, although written, are not followed. I learned that packing lists are not adhered to as long as you have your weapon and JLIST/MOPP gear. I learned that "teams" are purely adiminstrative and only exist when standing in formation. I learned that the term "be advised" preceeds about 80% of all radio transmissions. I learned that it's okay to have good guys shoot in each others' direction as long as there is a bad guy in the middle. I confirmed that the AF doesn't train without CBRNE gear on. I learned that there is no one NCO in charge; but rather 3 to 4 MSgts who don't communicate with each other and all have good intentions, but fail to pass along the same info.
Okay, I enjoyed myself, and I definiately learned a lot, but I didn't learn what I thought I'd learn, i.e. doctrine or SF specific skills.
If you can live with all these things, Judy, you can join my unit ;D
If I were the SQ/CC, I wouldn't have to live with those things - I'd fix 'em! I learned all I need to know to fix a unit from Gunny Highway. ;)
I thought that "Be advised" was an official proword or phrase but couldn't remember from where. A Google search turned it up in Army Field Manual FM 3-21.28 (was FM 57-38), "Pathfinder Operations", Chapter 3 on Air Traffic Control. If I'd learned somewhere that it was an official term, that sure wasn't it. Anyway, the FM says that it is standard terminology:
BE ADVISED - Indicates additional information is forthcoming, such as an unusual condition or hazard to flight.
A couple of UK/Australian sources claim it to be a "universal" term less formal than "Message follows."
But I have to go along with a Marine cheat sheet on comm that says under correct prowords:
Be advised - Garbage (emphasis by the Marines)
This 5 page cheat sheet has a lot of good points and could replace BCUT and a lot of comm courses for hams and others.
http://www.2ndbn5thmar.com/notes/Communications.pdf
Mike
The only major problem I got with the marine cheat sheet is that its basic premise doe not apply to CAP.
No one is trying to DF our positions to lay an artillery barrage so poor (as spelled out by 100-1) radio discipline is not necessary.
"be advised" may not be an official proword....but if it used appropriately and in moderation it is a useful term.
Quote from: sardak on February 10, 2009, 10:23:48 PM
Air Traffic Control. Anyway, the FM says that it is standard terminology:
BE ADVISED - Indicates additional information is forthcoming, such as an unusual condition or hazard to flight.
That's true. "Be advised, there are birds in the vicinity of runway 22", or some such, is common ATC terminology.
I agree with Lord Monar
Quoteif it used appropriately and in moderation it is a useful term.
However...
You have to be careful with the cited Cheat Sheet. "Affirmitive" and "Negitive" are claimed to be garbage on that sheet but they are the standard prowords for ARES/RACES operations instead of Yes and No.
Your own organization's standards and practices trump any outside source.
Quote from: RRLE on February 11, 2009, 12:50:56 PM
You have to be careful with the cited Cheat Sheet. "Affirmitive" and "Negitive" are claimed to be garbage on that sheet but they are the standard prowords for ARES/RACES operations instead of Yes and No.
Your own organization's standards and practices trump any outside source.
Standard prowords for CAP IAW 100-1; absolutely. However, there are no standard prowords for ARES/RACES nationwide.
I always sort of thought that it was a useful term for when you wanted to make sure someone was paying attention when you were telling them something important. But, I can also see that it can be redundant.
I can see both sides of 'be advised'. Honestly, I have no idea if I've used it or not. I also agree with the affirmative/negative point that was raised. It's funny...the pdf comments about 'dropped' syllables but makes two very important (and opposite) prowords single syllables.
They also missed one (read the whole line before you react...)
Garbage: Roger Proper Proword: Affirmative
That one drives me crazy, be it on a CAP net, an amateur radio net, or a television interview.
Dont use "send it" What is wrong with using it after I use "Wait one" I got something going on and I cant manage the radio and what I am doing so when I am finished I can reply "hippo base this is tower 5 send it"
But "All After" "All before" are okay I dont think I have ever heard those used
"that is correct" what is wrong if "affirmative" or "rodger"
"wrong" or Negitive would work just as well
While I understand this is someone elses SOP I would venture to say it has just as many issues as anyone elses. As long as the terms are being used properly and are understood by the rest of the unit then who really cares. Radio transmission should be brief and as long as that is being done as well who really cares.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on February 10, 2009, 02:21:33 AM
P.S.: I also hate it when people say "roger that" with every response in a radio conversation.
...or in emails, or in conversation.
Quote from: hatentx on February 12, 2009, 03:35:11 AM
Radio transmission should be brief and as long as that is being done as well who really cares.
Extra words tend to lengthen radio transmissions. Someone people think they're DJs when they pick up a mike and want to go on and on.
Quote from: Rotorhead on February 12, 2009, 05:12:48 PM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on February 10, 2009, 02:21:33 AM
P.S.: I also hate it when people say "roger that" with every response in a radio conversation.
...or in emails, or in conversation.
Roger that. >:D
Brevity is beauty. Out.
And NEVER use the term "Repeat" on the comm! :P
"Former 13B"
I did that once and got a pilot that came over the radio and said "roger (made a whistling noise) BOOM, how was hit over?" it took me a minute to figure it out ;D.
You know that has always been drilled into me (Repeat) but I have to wonder, does it really matter. What are the chances of someone gets some off kelter cross frequency whiz bang stuff going on that they inadvertantly hear me say repaeat and start lobbing mortor rounds down on some poor shmuck?
In the history of CAP (or anything other than actually military comms) has this happened?
Or is it just some old crusty comm guy trying to enforce his will "....'cause thats the way we learned it in the corps back in the great war....."
sorry for the rant, back to your regularly scheduled commo conversation
mk
You are right because most stuff is someone elses SOP and most people don't take the time to look at the actual regulation and I actually keep the reg in my go bag just in case, now if it's at a SAREVAL then I would use all the SOP you wanted me too. ;)
As long as whatever phrase is used appropriately, I have no problem with it. I'd rather get the message quickly than wait for someone to think of an attention getting phrase that won't annoy the radio police. True, some phrases are used inappropriately so often that even their proper use grates on us.
On the CAP side I've watched enough cadets stress out on the air, trying to figure out which official sounding words to use instead of simply sending the message. I'm not suggesting we throw all the rules out the window, but the purpose is to communicate. If someone says "Charles Adam Paul" instead of "Charlie Alpha Papa" I will get the picture and move on.
None of the phrases mentioned so far come close to the annoyance factor of ham radio operators laughing at their own jokes for 30 seconds while transmitting. I'm a ham and I shudder when I hear that.
Ultimately, on the air practice with proper procedures will win the day. In the meantime, just send the darn message in a clear and concise manner.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on February 14, 2009, 02:05:29 PMNone of the phrases mentioned so far come close to the annoyance factor of ham radio operators laughing at their own jokes for 30 seconds while transmitting. I'm a ham and I shudder when I hear that.
Or "Hi, hi!" for laughter. I soooo want to scream, "THIS IS NOT CW YOU MORONS!!!!!!".
I'd love to know why CW ops couldn't have just used "HA HA"....
I put "be advised" on the list with other Hollywood induced radio faux pas such as "over and out", "roger that", "DO YOU COPY?!", and the ever so popularly frantic "I REPEAT..." even though what they said bears no repeating.
Have I accidentally said it in the past? Probably. Will I accidentally say it again? Probably. And I'll gnash my teeth and slap my own wrist when I do.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on February 15, 2009, 02:24:54 AM
I put "be advised" on the list with other Hollywood induced radio faux pas such as "over and out", "roger that", "DO YOU COPY?!", and the ever so popularly frantic "I REPEAT..." even though what they said bears no repeating.
Have I accidentally said it in the past? Probably. Will I accidentally say it again? Probably. And I'll gnash my teeth and slap my own wrist when I do.
I disagree. I use it everyday at my job.
"Dispatch, 11-08-64, we're on a signal eighteen to New Island. Please be advised, we're Code Three with a Priority Two patient onboard, possible MI, alert the ED to have a cardiac team standing by."
So much for plain language...
Quote from: es_g0d on February 15, 2009, 02:37:23 AM
So much for plain language...
For my mind, I don't have a problem with medic/police/swat using whatever codes they need to protect the privacy/security of thier operations.
For SAR and other type of work, good to use plain language.
Quote from: RogueLeader on February 15, 2009, 02:39:58 AM
Quote from: es_g0d on February 15, 2009, 02:37:23 AM
So much for plain language...
For my mind, I don't have a problem with medic/police/swat using whatever codes they need to protect the privacy/security of thier operations.
For SAR and other type of work, good to use plain language.
I actually disagree. Everyone should be in plain language as much as possible these days, there's very little reason except for brevity in certain case's, and security/privacy in others.
For example, in my county and company, a 'Signal Ten, forthwith' means "Police Assistance urgently needed."
In the county next to us, a 'Signal Ten' is a structure fire. In New York City, the next area over, Police Assistance/Unit in distress is a '10-83.'
"Dispatch, 11-08-64, we are proceding to New Island Hospital with the patient onboard. Just so you know, we are driving fast with lights and sirens on, the patient is potientially unstable but not yet critical, with the signs and symptoms of a myocardial infarction. Please let the hospital know this so the proper staff can be awaiting our arrival."
I'm curious. What is the differnce in the meaning of
"Dispatch, 11-08-64, we're on a signal eighteen to New Island. Please be advised, we're Code Three with a Priority Two patient onboard, possible MI, alert the ED to have a cardiac team standing by."
and
"Dispatch, 11-08-64, we're on a signal eighteen to New Island. We're Code Three with a Priority Two patient onboard, possible MI, alert the ED to have a cardiac team standing by."
*blinks*
I wanna say that it alerts the dispatcher that there is something special about the transmission.
I agree with Joe, I use "Be advised" all the time at work. It just lets the receiver know that I'm about to pass on something important that they should probably listen to (in the new era of MDCs and alphanumeric pages with call info, medics and EMTs at my service are kinda lazy about listening to everything we say on the radio).
For example, a lot of our calls are coded as "Medical Call Pending" by our CAD and MPDS protocols (which are computer driven), and that's what the crew receives on their pagers and MDC. So, I might dispatch the call to a unit while I'm listening to my partner questioning the caller. If I over hear a nature, I'll call and update them. "809, be advised that you have a 91 year old female with a possible MI."
Or another example: "809, copy you priority three to Doctor's Hospital, be advised that they are rerouting everything except priority ones."
It's just a way to key them into something important that they should listen to when they're otherwise preoccupied or just not paying attention.
A lot of this boils down to just plain training.
We avoid codes because not everyone uses the code words the same way. A Polic signal 18 is different then a Fire or EMT signal 18. "10" codes can get long and involved as do the Q codes Hams use.
Even the offical Prowords that are approved for use can be a little daunting....especially when you attack new users for "misusing" the prowords. "over and out" "Roger Wilco" etc.
Good radio work...is to follow three simple rules.
Listen befor you talk.
Think Before you talk.
Keep your messages short and to the point.
All else is gravy.
The world won't end if you say "be advised". It won't even end if you say "over and out".
If the distant end can understand what you said and do what you want them to do....you are communicating.
Sure we should all try to work toward a perfect comm enviornment where everyone talks the same way and uses all the proper prowords and procedures. But it not going to cost anyones life or drain our bank accounts if we are a little lax in our procedures.
Quote from: RogueLeader on February 15, 2009, 02:39:58 AM
Quote from: es_g0d on February 15, 2009, 02:37:23 AM
So much for plain language...
For my mind, I don't have a problem with medic/police/swat using whatever codes they need to protect the privacy/security of thier operations.
For SAR and other type of work, good to use plain language.
Those "codes" are so well known to anyone who listens to a scanner, they're useless for privacy.
Quote from: Rotorhead on February 17, 2009, 01:47:55 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on February 15, 2009, 02:39:58 AM
Quote from: es_g0d on February 15, 2009, 02:37:23 AM
So much for plain language...
For my mind, I don't have a problem with medic/police/swat using whatever codes they need to protect the privacy/security of thier operations.
For SAR and other type of work, good to use plain language.
Those "codes" are so well known to anyone who listens to a scanner, they're useless for privacy.
Exactly, mostly at this point it's tradition and how we're taught.
For example
http://www.fordyce.org/scanning/scanning_info/scfcodes.html
Quote from: JThemann on February 17, 2009, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: Rotorhead on February 17, 2009, 01:47:55 AM
Quote from: RogueLeader on February 15, 2009, 02:39:58 AM
Quote from: es_g0d on February 15, 2009, 02:37:23 AM
So much for plain language...
For my mind, I don't have a problem with medic/police/swat using whatever codes they need to protect the privacy/security of thier operations.
For SAR and other type of work, good to use plain language.
Those "codes" are so well known to anyone who listens to a scanner, they're useless for privacy.
Exactly, mostly at this point it's tradition and how we're taught.
For example
http://www.fordyce.org/scanning/scanning_info/scfcodes.html
Having to memorize (and keep current with) a code list that specific and lengthy is just ridiculous. Perfect time to switch to plain English dispatching.
^^^^^ for all the above posts
More reasons to stay with clear text.....
The only needs for codes are fore true operations that require the privacy
Simple...... ICS operations dictate clear text and that is the bend of the DHS/ NIMS/ICS world
This has been THE standard for wildland fire for YEARS and the only reasons not to use clear text is when the need for real issues arise
Dallas Police dropping codes in favor of plain english:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032309dnmetradiocodes.3d76b7a.html?nTar=OPUR (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/032309dnmetradiocodes.3d76b7a.html?nTar=OPUR)